BashiChuni Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 5 minutes ago, goingkinetic said: Strange some of us want to stop war crimes and protect the innocent. So sickening. Great foreign policy “protect the innocent” China is committing war crimes on the Uyghurs and putting them in camps we should attack China! Gotta weigh pros and cons. The pros don’t outweigh the cons and it’s not even close.
BashiChuni Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 1 minute ago, hockeydork said: Not once have I war mongered. I made it abundantly clear that the best way to handle this is to crush Russia economically while helping the Ukrainians defend themselevs, which for F*cks sake man they have a right too. Just like you are probably pro gun so you can defend your own home. Find me a post where someone said we should go sink the Black Sea fleet. The US needs to play the long game here. Let the Russians dig their own grave. They are a floundering super power because of their crappy, selfish leadership. These are the people who don't care about killing their own people, it's in the process of coming back to haunt them. Agree with your post. They have a right sure. I can show you a US rep that is advocating a no fly zone, a US senator openly calling to assassinate Putin, and a former NATO ambassador advocating to arm the Ukrainians with A-10s. Those people help make and shape US policy not you or I. Scary. at this point I agree best COA is to let Russia get bogged down in Ukraine and spend their blood and treasure. This will weaken Putin both domestically and internationally. That is in the best interest of the US. 1 1
brickhistory Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 Something just seems "odd" with a couple of the most vociferous posters. I'm not smart enough to recognize the "why," but it sure does seem like it. Of course, we have a couple of posters who are happy with the self-inflicted COVID vaccine casualties that an enemy couldn't do much worse... 1 2
FLEA Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 10 minutes ago, goingkinetic said: Thats like your opinion man Yes we all know you don't value the lives of American innocents just Ukranian innocents, you've already said as much. Or basically you said, "I'm willing to intervene militarily to protect Ukranian innocents even if that means subjecting US civilians to the massive casualty of nuclear war."
goingkinetic Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 (edited) Brickhistory, BhasiChuni and you all assume there will be a nuclear war if we stand up to Putin. Who has been affected by PsyOps? To whose benefit is it to assume military intervention=nuclear war? Edited March 4, 2022 by goingkinetic Multi-tasking
FLEA Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 1 minute ago, goingkinetic said: Brickhistory, BhasiChuni and you all assume there will be a nuclear war if we stand up to Putin. Who has been affected by PsyOps? To whose benefit is it to assume military benefit=nuclear war? It is an assumption, but so is presuming he won't use Nukes. Bashi and I are making a risk based analysis. The risk that he does outweighs the cost of letting him sit at the big kid table and talk to grownups, which is all he really wants. Putin has way more reasons to use nuclear weapons than to not use them. He's also been working diligently to modernize his arsenal where we have not been until very recently. That demonstrates he has considered future planning for what efforts he was going to make that might justify their use. Putin also has the advantage of a cemented leadership, his own. He knows US Presidents change every four years and he can always wait for a weak one (like our current) to start pressing the nuclear triggers.
BashiChuni Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 11 minutes ago, goingkinetic said: Brickhistory, BhasiChuni and you all assume there will be a nuclear war if we stand up to Putin. Who has been affected by PsyOps? To whose benefit is it to assume military intervention=nuclear war? Even if it’s not a nuclear war, a conventional war with a desperate Putin would be HORRIFIC and it’s something I don’t want to see. you’re crazy to just walk in to a conflict with Russia so confidently
goingkinetic Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 What is our defense budget compared to Russia? Didn't Flea just say if you can throw more money at the fire you'll win.
FLEA Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 Just now, goingkinetic said: What is our defense budget compared to Russia? Didn't Flea just say if you can throw more money at the fire you'll win. WW2 was won with US money, British Steel and Russian blood, or so they say. Its about more than budget and spending. That's our strategy it's not theirs. They conscript, and Russian doctrine literally just allows them to throw waves and waves of bodies. It's going to be bloody, for everyone, and there is going to be a lot of scorched earth over Europe when it happens. Forget helping the Ukranian people, there won't be a Ukranian people after this. The ones that make it out will have diaspora'd while the entire east European plane is turned into a no man's land.
hockeydork Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 Goingkinetic, you'll win but not for free. Well be the last ones standing but not until after the bodies are stacked sky high to the ceiling. I applaud your willingness to want to go kick the shit out of the people doing this and make them stop, but this is a haste makes waste situation. Innocent people are going to die, Vlad is the one who decided that. It is going to happen. There is no going back. We need to be patient, we need to play to our strength as a free society, which is our ability to inovate and crush the Russian government so bad economically, that it's own people goes after them.
BashiChuni Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 4 minutes ago, goingkinetic said: What is our defense budget compared to Russia? Didn't Flea just say if you can throw more money at the fire you'll win. Jesus fucking Christ dude we would win, but what cost? Are you cool with thousands of American dead and wounded? For what? That cost isn’t worth it. Ukraine NEVER has been worth it from a US perspective.
goingkinetic Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 (edited) As I said the world has decided the Ukraine is expendable. I hope you are all right and he stops there. He's 2 for 2 on invading non-nato members. What about Taiwan, what message are we sending? We won't sanction Russian oil, what about sanction chinese everything? Every American should want American Food, Energy, Resource (Particularly microchip) independence, or the economic part of the DIME model is pointless. Edited March 4, 2022 by goingkinetic still muti-tasking
hockeydork Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 I think Russian oil should 100 percent be sanctioned.
hockeydork Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, BashiChuni said: Jesus ing Christ dude we would win, but what cost? Are you cool with thousands of American dead and wounded? For what? That cost isn’t worth it. Ukraine NEVER has been worth it from a US perspective. Strategically you are right and I agree, emotionally you are not. I think we care a lot more than putin thought we would, hence why I am OK with absorbing significant financial pain to enact even great pain on his people.
BashiChuni Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 31 minutes ago, goingkinetic said: As I said the world has decided the Ukraine is expendable. I hope you are all right and he stops there. He's 2 for 2 on invading non-nato members. What about Taiwan, what message are we sending? We won't sanction Russian oil, what about sanction chinese everything? Every American should want American Food, Energy, Resource (Particularly microchip) independence, or the economic part of the DIME model is pointless. Great post. Yes the world played Ukraine to the detriment of the Ukrainian people. It’s sad. Good question about Taiwan. cannot agree with you more about getting production and manufacturing back inside our borders.
FLEA Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 1 minute ago, BashiChuni said: Great post. Yes the world played Ukraine to the detriment of the Ukrainian people. It’s sad. Good question about Taiwan. cannot agree with you more about getting production and manufacturing back inside our borders. See the Presidential thread. Posted an article that pretty much said the Democrats have come full fucking circle and are going to make America great again, again. It's just absolutely tragic it had to take the suffering of Ukraine for them to come to that conclusion. 2
FLEA Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 39 minutes ago, goingkinetic said: As I said the world has decided the Ukraine is expendable. I hope you are all right and he stops there. He's 2 for 2 on invading non-nato members. What about Taiwan, what message are we sending? We won't sanction Russian oil, what about sanction chinese everything? Every American should want American Food, Energy, Resource (Particularly microchip) independence, or the economic part of the DIME model is pointless. It's not that they are expendable. Everyone weeps for them right now. But we have limited resources, and those resources need to be spent prioritizing the liberty, freedom and safety of the American people before other countries. Accelerating standoff against Russia jeapordizes those interests. Diplomatic/Economic solutions are more effective in preserving them.
Blue Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 6 hours ago, BashiChuni said: Can you elaborate how this is “bull shit”? im curious how that can be the case when Putin has called NATO expansion eastward to his border “unacceptable” how in the world is that bullshit? He is fucking telling you plain as day. 2 hours ago, SurelySerious said: It doesn’t mean it’s a sentiment we have to validate as acceptable in the world forum. That’s the part that YOU don’t get. FFS, no one is "validating" anything Putin has done as "acceptable."
Blue Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 1 hour ago, brickhistory said: Something just seems "odd" with a couple of the most vociferous posters. I'm not smart enough to recognize the "why," but it sure does seem like it. I'm convinced some of the posters in this thread are Russians. Or Ukrainians. Or High Schoolers. One of the three. 1
goingkinetic Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 1 minute ago, Blue said: I'm convinced some of the posters in this thread are Russians. Or Ukrainians. Or High Schoolers. One of the three. Yes, if we disagree with you we are clearly imbeciles. Stop assuming your intellectual superiority.
SurelySerious Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 FFS, no one is "validating" anything Putin has done as "acceptable."Actually, he has consistently been arguing that we must accept Putin’s viewpoint as valid, or maybe you haven’t been reading it closely.
Wendell Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 Just now, SurelySerious said: Actually, he has consistently been arguing that we must accept Putin’s viewpoint as valid, or maybe you haven’t been reading it closely. Exactly that was the problem I had with the discussion. I have no desire to get Into a direct shooting war with Russia. I take issue that every time an academic discussion in the west it always seems to end with us having to be in the wrong some way and that all the other opinions have equal value. Fuk that…this war is Putin’s doing. I can completely understand why former Soviet republics would want to join NATO, it’s on full display right now. I completely disagree that the west has to do some kind of soul searching to figure out how we were wrong and forced Putin to invade Ukraine. Putin misjudged the west’s actions and I hope his economy crumbles and he is removed from power, preferably by a rope. In the meantime more sanctions, pump US oil and continue to dump weapons into the Ukraine to kill as many Russians as possible. 4 1 1
BashiChuni Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, SurelySerious said: Actually, he has consistently been arguing that we must accept Putin’s viewpoint as valid, or maybe you haven’t been reading it closely. No I’m saying you should understand it. Doesn’t matter if you think it’s valid. Know your enemy and what motivates him. Edited March 4, 2022 by BashiChuni
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