BLUE: Episode 25 Pilot Pipeline

[ThreeHoler]

Sounds like chasing the golden rings down the glidepath on "Pilot Wings" on the Super Nintendo, circa 1992.

Sounds like existing .civ flying tech (NASA pushed it circa 1999).

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/166058#overview

[Danger41]

3 hours ago, Disco_Nav963 said:

Sounds like chasing the golden rings down the glidepath on "Pilot Wings" on the Super Nintendo, circa 1992.

If we can get students to land the hang glider on the moving target, they PA to Thunderbird lead.

[Snooter]

Dam inspector: The dam is leaking and it’s losing water

Dam engineer: well we need to find the holes and fix them so the dam doesn’t break

Dam General: just keep adding more water so the lake stays at the current level

 

[Fuzz]

21 hours ago, Disco_Nav963 said:

Sounds like chasing the golden rings down the glidepath on "Pilot Wings" on the Super Nintendo, circa 1992.

More or less they already had it setup to where the visual cues could be reduced as the pilot got better at flying. 

[FourFans]

This is all I keep seeing...

[Naviguesser]

Do a barrel roll!

[Fuzz]

4 hours ago, Naviguesser said:

Do a barrel roll!

Can’t, they took that out of the syllabus.

[YungBuck]

Why isn't someone putting VR T-6 headsets in the hands of cadets who have a pilot slot long before they ever set foot on a UPT base? 

I know I would have given my left nut to practice in the T-6 before I ever set foot on a pilot training base.  Is there any portion of a young officer's career where they are more fired up to spend hours practicing in a f*king sim? Give them a bit of guidance and let them do it on their spare time. Better yet, make it part of flight screening.

[jazzdude]

Why isn't someone putting VR T-6 headsets in the hands of cadets who have a pilot slot long before they ever set foot on a UPT base? 
I know I would have given my left nut to practice in the T-6 before I ever set foot on a pilot training base.  Is there any portion of a young officer's career where they are more fired up to spend hours practicing in a f*king sim? Give them a bit of guidance and let them do it on their spare time. Better yet, make it part of flight screening.

Because they'll learn bad habits that need to be broken in UPT. Even in UPT, IPs fight bad gouge and the occasional group of weak swimmers that chair fly together and make each other worse.

[di1630]

Because they'll learn bad habits that need to be broken in UPT. Even in UPT, IPs fight bad gouge and the occasional group of weak swimmers that chair fly together and make each other worse.

Imagine if we had had a specialized school where the focus was on things like flying and teaching about mission sets and good flying habits were taught early in classes.

We could call it the Air Force Academy or something.

[jazzdude]

Imagine if we had had a specialized school where the focus was on things like flying and teaching about mission sets and good flying habits were taught early in classes.

We could call it the Air Force Academy or something.

Maybe a school for pilots. Learning at the undergraduate level? Undergraduate pilot school?...

[TnkrToad]

Why isn't someone putting VR T-6 headsets in the hands of cadets who have a pilot slot long before they ever set foot on a UPT base? 
I know I would have given my left nut to practice in the T-6 before I ever set foot on a pilot training base.  Is there any portion of a young officer's career where they are more fired up to spend hours practicing in a f*king sim? Give them a bit of guidance and let them do it on their spare time. Better yet, make it part of flight screening.

Might be shocking to some, but this is being actively worked. AETC is pushing hard to get more Pilot Training Next-type gear to pre-commissioning sources.

BTW, USAFA has had T-6 sims for over a decade and a half; they’re grossly underutilized. Few cadets—even those wanting pilot slots—use the sims.

Prolly has something to do with all the other stuff they have on their plates.

TT

[Guest]

Might be shocking to some, but this is being actively worked. AETC is pushing hard to get more Pilot Training Next-type gear to pre-commissioning sources.

BTW, USAFA has had T-6 sims for over a decade and a half; they’re grossly underutilized. Few cadets—even those wanting pilot slots—use the sims.

Prolly has something to do with all the other stuff they have on their plates.

TT

Maybe they need to advertise their existence a little better. I don’t recall ever hearing of such a thing while I was there.

[TnkrToad]

Maybe they need to advertise their existence a little better. I don’t recall ever hearing of such a thing while I was there.

Perhaps, but this is an issue for all kinds of programs, activities, & clubs at USAFA—cadets are constantly bombarded with various opportunities.

USAFA has 12 T-6 sims; the first ones showed up in ‘02. They’re pretty old, visuals are limited, and don’t have motion; but I’m told they fly like the real thing. I flew Tweets, so have no basis for comparison.

Biggest problem is USAFA leaders reject the notion that the institution is, in part, a trade school. Training is a four letter word to USAFA educators—in their minds, if cadets have free time, they should be taking more engineering classes, dammit!

TT

[ThreeHoler]

Tweet sims when I was there. They were replaced with nice T-6 sims circa 2004.

[SurelySerious]

31 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:

Maybe they need to advertise their existence a little better. I don’t recall ever hearing of such a thing while I was there.

I took a class on something about fundamentals of aviation where we learned about traffic patterns and used the sim taught by an AOC, but I don’t remember if I knew you could use them on your own. 

[YungBuck]

USAFA is a DRU--why doesn't big AF just order them to add it into the curriculum and require it if you get a pilot slot? 

I know I prepped like crazy before UPT, I just didn't know WTF I was reading or what was important.  And there were definitely no sims or UPT Next sets floating around my ROTC unit.  Seems like you should be able to learn systems, basic EPs, basic instruments and pattern procedures remotely.  There is nothing magic about being physically present on a UPT base to start memorizing some shit. 

[jazzdude]

Think syllabus standardization.

If academy pilot-select cadets had pre-UPT training at the academy, that training would still need to be taught to the ROTC/OTS studs. No real savings in time. Best case is the ROTC/OTS studs get the same training at their UPT base prior to starting UPT.

About the only thing someone needs to do before UPT is maybe learn ops limits/boldface, and show up willing to work hard and learn. If a reasonable percentage of students can't learn the info in the time allotted in the syllabus, then either the time allotted or method of instruction needs to be corrected.

Otherwise, it's like saying you need to do sos correspondence before you go to sos in-residence.

[jazzdude]

Seems like you should be able to learn systems, basic EPs, basic instruments and pattern procedures remotely.  There is nothing magic about being physically present on a UPT base to start memorizing some shit. 

And thus a CBT (or 10) was born. Best part is, they will probably be as worthless as the flying CBTs at PIT.

[jice]

2 hours ago, jazzdude said:

Think syllabus standardization.

If academy pilot-select cadets had pre-UPT training at the academy, that training would still need to be taught to the ROTC/OTS studs. No real savings in time. Best case is the ROTC/OTS studs get the same training at their UPT base prior to starting UPT.

About the only thing someone needs to do before UPT is maybe learn ops limits/boldface, and show up willing to work hard and learn. If a reasonable percentage of students can't learn the info in the time allotted in the syllabus, then either the time allotted or method of instruction needs to be corrected.

Otherwise, it's like saying you need to do sos correspondence before you go to sos in-residence.
 

Syllabus standardization... that’s the one where we sacrifice effectiveness in order to avoid a kid whining about not getting his jet of choice? We’re talking about guided sims in advance, not an entire UPT phase.

If a kid going through USAFA ends up better prepared for UPT than somebody off the street, it sounds like USAFA did it’s job. Also sounds like a great start for rolling it out to all pre-commissioning sources. It all comes out in the wash. The OTS kid may be a 2,000 hr airline captain and aerobatic competitor. The ROTC kid is going to be able to talk to chicks and rock a road soda through the main gate. 

Ivan doesn’t care about perfect syllabus standardization.

[HU&W]

5 hours ago, YungBuck said:

Seems like you should be able to learn systems, basic EPs, basic instruments and pattern procedures remotely.  There is nothing magic about being physically present on a UPT base to start memorizing some shit. 

Sure.  Give pre-commissioning studs a google cardboard and  some 360 youtube videos with pilots doing normal stuff.  Highlight the crosscheck where the pilot's looking.  Cheap fam, gives context, and teaches good habits early.

[jazzdude]

Syllabus standardization... that’s the one where we sacrifice effectiveness in order to avoid a kid whining about not getting his jet of choice? We’re talking about guided sims in advance, not an entire UPT phase.
If a kid going through USAFA ends up better prepared for UPT than somebody off the street, it sounds like USAFA did it’s job. Also sounds like a great start for rolling it out to all pre-commissioning sources. It all comes out in the wash. The OTS kid may be a 2,000 hr airline captain and aerobatic competitor. The ROTC kid is going to be able to talk to chicks and rock a road soda through the main gate. 
Ivan doesn’t care about perfect syllabus standardization.

We wouldn't be sacrificing effectiveness by not doing early sims at the Academy. A handful of sims a 6-9 months before they class up will do nothing for their performance in UPT. The studs have a hard enough time anyways remembering pattern ops after a few weeks in the instrument phase in T-6s. If VR is effective and cheap, issue the studs the equipment once they start UPT, where it can take the place of a lot of chair flying.

This has nothing to do with fairness either. An Academy grad SHOULD be better prepared for UPT (and that's coming from a ROTC guy). But why waste the resources trying to train for the T-6 specifically when they'll get that training anyways at a later time, because their non-academy classmates need to get that training anyways? Instead, put the cadets up in a glider or a Cessna and actually build air sense. Teach them how to read a chart and navigate, or to read and intepret weather products. You know, the stuff that will be useful in ANY airplane, and not something that might have an effect for only the first 2-3 sorties in UPT?

OTS guy might also be a guard guy with 20 hours that ends up on the struggle bus. Or a 3000 hr airline captain. Syllabus standardization ensures that both of those people, after completing UPT, will be a known quantity, regardless of their previous experience or background.

[FourFans]

12 hours ago, di1630 said:

Imagine if we had had a specialized school where the focus was on things like flying and teaching about mission sets and good flying habits were taught early in classes.

We could call it the Air Force Academy or something.

Quiet you!

Directly off their website:

Quote

The mission of the United States Air Force Academy is to educate, train, and inspire men and women to become leaders of character, motivated to lead the United States Air Force in service to our nation.

Ain't a single word in there about airplanes or pilots.  Didn't a previous Commandant recently site the reason for getting rid of  the doolie year and recognition was that the purpose of the academy is the prepare cadets to operate inside of the USAF bureaucracy or somesuch? 

It would seem USAFA has no focus on preparing or producing pilot candidates nor does it instill a warrior ethos.  Hopefully some aggression still slip into the training somehow.

P.S. I was in the cadet program that ran the sims when we switched from the old (as in vacuum tubes, speeder springs, oxford commas, and flyweights 'old') tweet sims to the T-6 ones back in the 2002 time frame.  The T-6 sims were, and are, highly capable of helping dudes get ready for UPT.

[Fuzz]

On 7/12/2018 at 1:34 AM, YungBuck said:

And there were definitely no sims or UPT Next sets floating around my ROTC unit.  Seems like you should be able to learn systems, basic EPs, basic instruments and pattern procedures remotely.  There is nothing magic about being physically present on a UPT base to start memorizing some shit. 

Not necessarily true, not VR but pretty good overall.

https://news.ecu.edu/2017/10/11/right-of-line/

[YoungnDumb]

The lack of knowledge that they exist is a pretty big issue, that coupled with no leadership to use them.  Last I remember there were a pair of civilians who maintained them but no one knew how to fly them or what the 11-248 was.  It would go a long, long way towards helping cadets/the AF if there was a pilot there who ran the program and/or led classes on basics of airmanship or gave the cadets some basic things to practice.  Basically they just need someone to focus and teach the cadets, the rest will work itself out.