I have a request for anybody at Columbus (CBM) or in AETC (ATC back in my day) Here goes,

Is there any way I can find out how many students started in my UPT class. We were class 87-04, we started in April 1986 and graduated March 13, 1987. Its a Mystery to all of my classmates as to how many started UPT. We estimated it around 70 studs but the numbers vary widely. We graduated 27, but a few were washbacks from previous classes. I called te base library, and the historian, but they never returned calls. So my question is, are there records that show how many students started out?, and how can I find them?

Thanks to all in advance.

Vito

27 of 70 ... I knew the washout rate used to be higher but damn.

Edited June 18, 201411 yr by guineapigfury

Maybe the class registrar?

^ this. The registrar should have all that info. The base operator should have his number. x1110

Yes, It was a bloodbath, I can't say it was normal, but a 50% washout rate was common (at least when I was there) Shortly after the Air Force started to re-evaluate UPT because of the high washout rates, this lead to the dual track training in the 90's. Along with the need to extend the T-38 airframe life.

I'll try the registrar and thanks for all your help.

Vito

I contacted the base registrar, Historian and library and no luck. The registrar said they didn't keep records that long ago!! It was 1986, not 1926! I guess I am old.

Thanks for the suggestions, the mystery remains

Is there not a tintype of your class that you could use to count bodies?

Gravedigger,

No tintype, but I did find a papyrus list!! :)

I guess I am old.

Rainman?? I didn't know you flew C-17's haha

I was a T-38 IP there in that timeframe. We had a class come over from T-37s that only lost students to SIEs and medical issues. The resulting bloodbath was epic. 50% of the class was washed out.

Didn't you guys paint ceiling tiles, hang a class photo on the wall, chisel your names in one of the local boulders, or anything like that? A visit and tour of CBM might be the ticket.

Look on the back of the aero orders you have, or that you got from Flight Records. It,should be the first paper in your flight records folder. It will show you everyone in your UPT Class (minus anyone that washed back and into your class).

Then, just remember who graduated and who didn't.

Edited June 19, 201411 yr by Huggyu2

HuggyU2,

The earliest record I have has the names of my UPT graduating class, not the students who started the class. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll go through the files again.

TreeA-10

When were you at CBM? and what flight? I was Orion.

Hawk. Then moved across the street into academics then exec then class commander.

Didn't you guys paint ceiling tiles, hang a class photo on the wall, chisel your names in one of the local boulders, or anything like that? A visit and tour of CBM might be the ticket.

You mean the ceiling tiles that were taken down last year because they were offensive to some?

You mean the ceiling tiles that were taken down last year because they were offensive to some?

They really did that? We really are getting to be a worthless bunch of pussies.

They did it at Laughlin 4+ years ago! called them a fire hazard. A lot of the willie tiles are at the Dayton F-16 sims.

The ceiling tiles stayed up, unless the class patch was "offensive", then it was removed, along with every Thank You plaque with that patch anywhere on base.

The wall of patches in the OG bldg looks like the toothless mouths of so many MS locals now. It's just sad.

Edited June 20, 201411 yr by 10percenttruth

The ceiling tiles stayed up, unless the class patch was "offensive", then it was removed, along with every Thank You plaque with that patch anywhere on base.

The wall of patches in the OG bldg looks like the toothless mouths of so many MS locals now. It's just sad.

Are the patches from 01-04 and 09-01 up still?

We didn't do ceiling tiles, I did finish a week early and I had a little artistic ability so I painted the Orion Patch over the entrance doorway of the flight room. Always wondered how long it was on the wall before some other class painted over it.

Are the patches from 01-04 and 09-01 up still?

If those were the sofa king & porn star patches... Then no, sadly.

Are the patches from 01-04 and 09-01 up still?

09-01 was still up in my flight room as of about a year ago.

Follow-up on my search. Just got home from an airline trip and scoured through my Flight records. The earliest record I have is the listing of my UPT class graduates, there are no records prior to that. On one of the earlier papers there is a note that said all "Student Flight Hours" (ie. UPT) records are missing and cannot be found at CBM. So it looks like Columbus dropped the ball somewhere and lost records. I guess it will remain a mystery..PS only one person actually returned calls or e-mails at CBM, the rest didn't even bother to call back...WTF, Its still an Air Force Base! You'd like to think people still try.

Also, for some of you who were questioning why its difficult to figure this out, back then 1986, classes were much larger than now. We had well over 65 studs, and some think it was more. A Lot of guys were married and didn't hang with the single guys etc, so its hard to figure it out from class pictures etc...the best Pic I had showed 23 students posing in front of the T-37 gate guard and only 9 graduated from this group

picture taken April 1986 Nice socks!

Edited June 21, 201411 yr by Vito

Are you the guy with the sweet vest in the front row?!

Nope, The guy with the vest was a Kuwaiti student, Think He got a Mirage, we started with 4 kuwaiti's only 2 finished. I'm the short guy, with the white T-shirt, second from right front row. The tall guy to my right is General James Kurt Vogel, and another bud in the class is a Brig Gen (sel) in the Kentucky Guard.

Edited June 21, 201411 yr by Vito