June 9, 201411 yr you're saying because we, military folk who make acronyms for everything, use an acronym to describe a few nationally accepted acronyms that these events are worse than they were before the term "ARI" came to fruition? It's not a matter that the military makes an acronym for everything, it is that they seem to be actively seeking new and exciting ways to categorize things to amplify their "seriousness". It has become "good leadership" to crush people who make bad decisions when they drink, even if they didn't commit ANY crime, did not hurt themselves (or others), and didn't destroy any property. When alcohol is involved there is no longer such a thing as "lesson learned". THAT is what I'm pretty sure he was getting at.
June 9, 201411 yr Call me devils advocate, but bars/ drinking at work isn't normal in corporate America. Those of us who enjoy responsibly don't want to see our heritage go away, but let's get real. My parents were shocked when they came to my upt graduation and everybody was drinking at 330 at work.
June 9, 201411 yr Call me devils advocate, but bars/ drinking at work isn't normal in corporate America. This isn't Corporate America but thanks for the heads up. I'll pay attention to that fact when I decide to play in that realm.
June 9, 201411 yr Call me devils advocate, but bars/ drinking at work isn't normal in corporate America. Those of us who enjoy responsibly don't want to see our heritage go away, but let's get real. My parents were shocked when they came to my upt graduation and everybody was drinking at 330 at work. The problem with the USAF is that a lot of folks try to make it cooperate America and not a military branch.
June 9, 201411 yr The problem with the USAF is that a lot of folks try to make it cooperate America and not a military branch. Bingo. It's the military not a business Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
June 9, 201411 yr It's the military not a business Air University is very confused by your statement. They're currently trying to apply a corporate management model to filter it so they can comprehend and actively listen.
June 9, 201411 yr Call me devils advocate, but bars/ drinking at work isn't normal in corporate America. Those of us who enjoy responsibly don't want to see our heritage go away, but let's get real. My parents were shocked when they came to my upt graduation and everybody was drinking at 330 at work. This isn't your dads corporate america anymore. Most of my college buddies now working the spread of big corporations to small start ups have told me stories about drinking at work (and I'm not talking the yearly Christmas party). One of my best friends was telling me about working at the company (large corporation), and he rivaled how much a typical squadron drinks. Edited June 9, 201411 yr by Fuzz
June 9, 201411 yr Call me devils advocate, but bars/ drinking at work isn't normal in corporate America. Those of us who enjoy responsibly don't want to see our heritage go away, but let's get real. My parents were shocked when they came to my upt graduation and everybody was drinking at 330 at work. On the other hand, corporate America could really not give a shit what I do away from work, in most cases including a DUI.
June 9, 201411 yr whatever, you're all so tough behind your keyboards, I was just saying its not normal to get loaded at work, and you all tackle me. And I didn't realize this wasn't corporate America, consider me informed now.
June 9, 201411 yr whatever, you're all so tough behind your keyboards, I was just saying its not normal to get loaded at work, and you all tackle me. And I didn't realize this wasn't corporate America, consider me informed now. You're not a victim, you're a survivor.
June 9, 201411 yr I have always hated the "one person shits, so everyone wears diapers" method... How about a good ole fashion wall to wall ball kicking of the person that screwed up....crush him...hold him responsible for his actions. Novel concept...I know. Cap-10 Agreed, public executions have always been a great deterrent. Punishing those not involved does nothing but lower morale. Why anyone in a position of leadership would believe that to be a "solution" is beyond me, and undermines the concept of personal accountability which is what should they should striving for...
June 9, 201411 yr Agreed, public executions have always been a great deterrent. Punishing those not involved does nothing but lower morale. Why anyone in a position of leadership would believe that to be a "solution" is beyond me, and undermines the concept of personal accountability which is what should they should striving for... M2, I couldn't agree more. However, if the CC believes that he has an underlying "culture" problem then how does he go about fixing it without getting everyone involved? I am not saying that having everyone in blues gets at the heart of the matter and have always hated this approach. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!
June 9, 201411 yr What I hate about these things is that people are being crucified when they haven't even been convicted of a crime yet. I'm not saying to keep it under wraps until all legal matters are complete, but once you've painted the picture of a dirtbag, they will remain a dirtbag even when they've been found innocent of the charges. Standard AF, guilty til proven innocent. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!
June 9, 201411 yr Agreed, public executions have always been a great deterrent. Punishing those not involved does nothing but lower morale. Why anyone in a position of leadership would believe that to be a "solution" is beyond me, and undermines the concept of personal accountability which is what should they should striving for... Could this style be the inverse of everyone gets a badge/trophy?
June 9, 201411 yr M2, I couldn't agree more. However, if the CC believes that he has an underlying "culture" problem then how does he go about fixing it without getting everyone involved? I am not saying that having everyone in blues gets at the heart of the matter and have always hated this approach. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! HD, I firmly believe making an example of a few offenders goes a long way in correcting any "culture" problems that may exist in an organization. And if that method doesn't work, there are plenty of more productive ways to "adjust attitudes" than such silly antics. I simply don't see the benefit of such "mass punishment," especially when there is nothing gained from it other than a bunch of pissed off troops. Increased training and/or awareness I can understand; but dress-up day just doesn't directly address the problem or provide any type of solution. Where do commanders get such ideas that it would?!? If you want them to act like adults, then treat them like adults. And when they screw up, hold them accountable. Such games are just bullshit attempts to appear to be doing something.
June 9, 201411 yr Author So wait, a CC call in blues is mass punishment... But an hr of briefings from adapts and pbs special video presentations telling us not to drink and drive... Or as you call it increased training and or awareness isn't? Where is the line that is the number that's unpreventable? I realize we have to say the only acceptable numbers of DUI or DWI is always zero... But the reality is the lowest average will never be less than one. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!
June 9, 201411 yr Could this style be the inverse of everyone gets a badge/trophy? No, it's the logical extension of it. If everyone is a winner and individual achievement unfairly demoralizes lower performers by ignoring their contributions to the winner's feat, then individual failure is merely a symptom of a group failure to support the failing individual. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
June 9, 201411 yr Call me devils advocate, but bars/ drinking at work isn't normal in corporate America. Those of us who enjoy responsibly don't want to see our heritage go away, but let's get real. My parents were shocked when they came to my upt graduation and everybody was drinking at 330 at work. Most of corporate America doesn't have IEDs launched over the fence at them when they're on a business trip either. edit: grammar is hard Edited June 9, 201411 yr by Vertigo
June 9, 201411 yr And all this time I thought that the HF/IDP was because the wifi was spotty. That's hardship duty pay.
June 10, 201411 yr HD, I firmly believe making an example of a few offenders goes a long way in correcting any "culture" problems that may exist in an organization. And if that method doesn't work, there are plenty of more productive ways to "adjust attitudes" than such silly antics. I simply don't see the benefit of such "mass punishment," especially when there is nothing gained from it other than a bunch of pissed off troops. Increased training and/or awareness I can understand; but dress-up day just doesn't directly address the problem or provide any type of solution. Where do commanders get such ideas that it would?!? If you want them to act like adults, then treat them like adults. And when they screw up, hold them accountable. Such games are just bullshit attempts to appear to be doing something. I don't disagree with you necessarily. I do not believe that you should have to make an example out of anyone. Holding individuals accountable tends to send the right message to others in the unit. However there are times when it doesn't sink in. No one likes the "fashion show" mentality of dressing up in blues. The cynical among us take is as punishing the masses. I am not sure what the point is other than to have folks in blues for a CC call. I am still lamenting the day when we get back to wearing blues during the work week and wear ABUs and/ or flight suits only once a week or when on the schedule to fly. I am sure you can remember back to that time in the AF. Not talking about this "alleged DUI" since he has not faced a judge yet, but let's not forget that DWI and DUI are crimes. We spend way too much time on these types of issues. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!
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