Napoleon_Tanerite Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I coulda SWORE there was a thread on this topic already, but TFSF is coming up dry. Anyway, They've started digging in Burma, and the initial look isn't so good. I'm hoping they find something, but even IF there were airplanes buried out there, we all know how well the jungle tends to treat metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy pilgrim Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Let's hope Burma doesn't find them first - a squadron of spitfires would increase the size of their fighter force by ~20%. Probably a bit better endurance and reliability than the J-7's they're flying now... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 As long as they can find some data plates, it will be worth it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discus Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 As long as they can find some data plates, it will be worth it. It's all about the data plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napoleon_Tanerite Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 As long as they can find some data plates, it will be worth it. It might prove they were right, but data plates don't pay the bills. This is a treasure hunt, not an archaeological dig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 It might prove they were right, but data plates don't pay the bills. Yeah... I guess finding 130 Spitfire data plates wouldn't be worth much. No market for them. Just ask Kermit Weeks,... or Tom Friedkin,... or Rod Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 For those of us who have no idea wtf you're talking about....a little help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prozac Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 From what I understand, you can basically build a new warbird from scratch (plenty of parts out there for things like Spits and Mustangs), slap an original data plate on it, and call it an authentic machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napoleon_Tanerite Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 Interesting. I didn't even know about the data plate thing, but it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) For those of us who have no idea wtf you're talking about....a little help? In essence... what Prozac wrote. It might prove they were right, but data plates don't pay the bills. This is a treasure hunt, not an archaeological dig. While I appreciated the OP pointing out to me that this wasn't an archaeological dig, it was obvious to me he didn't know the significance of the plates. Just ask Kermit Weeks,... or Tom Friedkin,... or Rod Lewis. You can google these names if you care. BL: they like airplanes, and have money. Edited January 21, 2013 by Huggyu2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The data plate is the difference between a $500-600K valuation and $1.5 - 2mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepileit Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Huggy, I met Kermit Weeks at the last Doolittle Reunion. He was bidding for the next one, but it went to Eglin. I have some friends in warbirds, Vlado and a few also do Heritage flights. I was in the L-4 market, point being the pain of dataplates, fuselage serial numbers, wing serial numbers,etc. 1/2 were frauds, 1/2 innocently, but still wrong. Even in a $40k plane, true documentation is worth at least 20 percent. USAF records, Smithsonian and FAA chasing does pass the hours. Numbers matching cars seem much simpler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Good info, Moose. I'm sure,... like with anything of great value,... plenty of folks will try to act fraudulently. Thanks for the perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiFlyer Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 From what I understand, you can basically build a new warbird from scratch (plenty of parts out there for things like Spits and Mustangs), slap an original data plate on it, and call it an authentic machine. Hmmm. Back in a place far to the west (or the east) there were civilian people who would bang up their birds and ship them back to Taiwan to be fixed (because they didn't exactly do things by the book and couldn't go on the open market and buy new ones).. In some cases, the parts shipped back included little more than a piece of skin with the tail number on it and the data plate, carried in a suitcase. Six months later they'd go back to the place and pick up a fully "repaired" airplane, tail number and data plates intact and in the proper place, and fly it back. My father-in-law worked with the same people to have parts manufactured from scratch for his equipment because the old (very old) ground equipment was no longer being manufactured and you couldn't get parts. In some cases, acording to him, there were C-47s and C-46s that crashed in the jungles and re-appeared more than once! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napoleon_Tanerite Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Good info, Moose. I'm sure,... like with anything of great value,... plenty of folks will try to act fraudulently. Thanks for the perspective. So say they do pull up data plates from otherwise junk planes in Burma-- is it fraudulent to attach that to another airplane, or would the "new" airplane be considered a repaired version of the plane the plate came from? I don't really know a whole lot about the warbird market, so I'm ignorant as to what is considered "genuine". I know there's a difference between "genuine" and "original" but beyond that, I'm clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepileit Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Spitfire, do not know how the Brit regs work. Little Cub- the L-4s became J-3s post war under the FAA. If the tubing and wings were repaired, you still had the dataplate, fuselage serial number and wing serial numbers, if anyone cared back then. Probably didnt overhaul and reinstall the original engine with its crankcase serial number dataplate. But, same for most all engines on planes back then; still today. A major repair outside the scope of an Inspector of Airworthiness (IA) would need FAA to reissue a new airworthiness certificate. On big $ warbirds some only get restricted program certs and are valued far less then less restrictive airworthiness certificates. Building around a dataplate in the U.S. and being honest about will fetch less at sale. Might have a junkier machine worth more than a piece of art if you only start with a dataplate. I flew from an aircraft graveyard strip for 3 years. The dataplates were in note card boxes and kept close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prozac Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Moose, did you ever end up purchasing an L-4? Worth it over a J-3 for the warbird status? I have some interest in looking at both for weekend sightseeing and the occasional fly-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Since we're talking about Cubs... Here's my newest Cub restoration project. (Click link for pic, I'm typing this on my phone and have no embedding skillz) - Photo added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepileit Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) That is more project than I prefer. I ran into a plane too nice to pass @ the price of an L-4, will skip a warbird row spot for now. Though, it specs out as a L-21A. Exp. amat. build supercub. Wag kits. Some of the fancy bush mods. Will put on VGs in the spring when it warms up. Fun sky Jeep, nicely done. Back to Burma Spits type searches- we have a similar hunt in the USA at Seymour, IN. http://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=463868480342361&id=100776559984890&set=a.333147756747768.84344.100776559984890&refid=17 http://www.indianamilitary.org/FreemanAAF/Museum/FF_museum.html Edited January 21, 2013 by moosepileit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Yeah, it's daunting but it was also free. I'll do a build thread when I start cutting and welding. I wanted a vintage plane to go with my vintage truck. Anyway, back to topic: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contraildash Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 On a related note to the data plate discussion, I had read a while back that the German government was reissuing serial numbers for the 262s and 190s being built right now. That's kinda cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriously Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Hopefully the unearthing of these Spits doesn't turn out like this 1957 Plymouth buried as a time capsule and reopened in 2007. http://www.allpar.com/history/auto-shows/time-capsule.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napoleon_Tanerite Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 On a related note to the data plate discussion, I had read a while back that the German government was reissuing serial numbers for the 262s and 190s being built right now. That's kinda cool. Not sure about the 190s, but I know that at Messerschmitt has issued at least three new "Werk Numbers" to new-production Me-262 airframes, picking up where WWII production left off, basically same production run with a 50 year gap. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBuckle Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 They've admitted defeat... http://bit.ly/11NH7nH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoo Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 "Most significantly, the archival records show that the RAF unit that handled shipments through Rangoon docks – 41 Embarkation Unit – only received 37 aircraft in total from three transport ships between 1945 and 1946. "None of the crates contained Spitfires and most appear to have been re-exported in the autumn of 1946," the statement concluded. Hmmm...seems like this little bit of information would've saved everybody a lot of time, money, and effort. WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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