GoAround Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 USAF teaching Iraqi's to fly airstrike missions. Iraqi crews ‘ready to go’ on mission Part of slow transition from Air Force reliance By Bruce Rolfsen - Staff writer Posted : Sunday Jul 12, 2009 9:42:57 EDT Airmen deployed to Iraq are teaching their Iraqi counterparts to fly airstrike missions. Today, after fewer than a dozen training flights, two Iraqi aircrews — a pilot and a mission-sensor operator make up an aircrew — are qualified to fire Hellfire missiles from AC-208B Caravans, a military version of the single-engine turboprop Cessna Grand Caravan utility airplane. A third aircrew is in training. “They are ready to go,” said Lt. Col. Christopher Spigelmire, an F-15 Eagle pilot and commander of the 521st Air Expeditionary Advisory Squadron at Kirkuk Air Base, Iraq. All that is keeping the Iraqis from flying combat sorties are both Iraqi and U.S. military leaders working out rules of engagement such as how strikes will be coordinated with ground commanders, Spigelmire said. Not unexpectedly, the Iraqi aircrews want to fly and fight — now. “Yes, of course we want to have weapons to stop the terrorists,” said Iraqi Col. Mustafa, commander of Kirkuk’s Squadron 3, the unit flying AC-208Bs. The Iraqi airmen had already flown reconnaissance sorties in C-208Bs equipped with cameras. Qualifying them to fly with Hellfire missiles took eight to 11 training flights, including night sorties and Hellfire launches. The Hellfire training parallels the upgrade instruction U.S. crews go through as new weapons are added. As the strike mission grows and new officers arrive, Iraqi airmen will go directly into the AC-208B, Mustafa said. The Iraqi weapons loading and maintenance aircrews are primarily enlisted airmen overseen by young officers, Mustafa said. All started with no experience. “This is the first time they are dealing with a weapon,” he said. Because of its light weight — 250 pounds — and laser targeting system, the Hellfire is the missile of choice for small aircraft. The Air Force launches Hellfires from MQ-1 Predator and MQ-9 Reaper UAVs. Army helicopters also fly with Hellfires. The success of the 521st and Squadron 3 is key in determining the Air Force’s long-term role in Iraq. Until the Iraqi military can mount airstrikes on its own, Air Force planes and Army helicopters will get the calls to fly close-air support missions. So far, the primary mission for Iraqi aircrews has been airlift, including C-130 Hercules donated by the U.S. and reconnaissance with no capability to fire on targets when insurgents are spotted. Beyond the AC-208B, the Iraqi government wants to buy F-16 Fighting Falcons, Iraqi officials have said. Working with the Iraqis at Kirkuk are about 25 airmen, including weapons crews, maintainers, rated aircrew members and three pilots, Spigelmire said. All are volunteers on yearlong tours. The squadron’s earlier mission at Kirkuk was to train Iraqi airmen to fly reconnaissance missions. “That part of the advisory mission is over,” he said. The 521st phased itself out of reconnaissance as Iraqi airmen took over the training. Eventually, Iraqi airmen will take over Hellfire training. “My job is to work myself out of a job,” Spigelmire said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BUFF DRIVER Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 does anybody know how to get into flying those things with the iraqi's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQZip01 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 does anybody know how to get into flying those things with the iraqi's I would talk with someone at the 6th Special Ops Squadron. They may have some information for you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 does anybody know how to get into flying those things with the iraqi's Talk to your commander and then have him/her call your functional. Are you an IP yet? Only way you can go over there to fly with the Iraqis/Afghanis on a 365 is to be an IP. My guess is there aren't going to be nearly as many CAFTT flying gigs with the Iraqis as there once was. Most advisory squadrons are dwindling down, especially since the Commander in Chief has said he wants us all out of the country by 2011. On the helo side, most of what we set to accomplish with the Iraqis is now complete. Afghanistan, that's a whole another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stract Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 raise your hand if you want the JTAC to be rolling an AC-208 in on your position during a TIC...hopefully they don't work that ROE out until all the American troops are gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contraildash Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I'm sure the MC-12 guys are jealous.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQZip01 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 raise your hand if you want the JTAC to be rolling an AC-208 in on your position during a TIC...hopefully they don't work that ROE out until all the American troops are gone! I wouldn't worry too much about the ROE, but in a TIC when time is of the essence...I'm not sure I'd want to wait on an aircraft whose top speed is Mach 0.16... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baseops.Net Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 It is true, the Caravan is not known for its speed - but it will give you some good station/loiter time (admittedly, I have not flown the armed -208 variant that is much heavier...) Fantastic little plane to beat up a dirt LZ with (and VERY forgiving). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac airlifter Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I wouldn't worry too much about the ROE, but in a TIC when time is of the essence...I'm not sure I'd want to wait on an aircraft whose top speed is Mach 0.16... Top speed is irrelevant if you've already been loitering on station following the action. The idea here is they stay on station and follow the mission for several hours instead of leaving after 60 minutes to hit a tanker. And when it's time to rearm and refuel you can position support assets anywhere with a dirt road and this thing will land and be serviced, then immediatly be back in the fray; no need to return to a MOB. If I were the dude on the ground I would much rather be covered by a platform that is flexible to my needs, regardless of what it looks like. The Iraqis will be well served by this aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsplayr Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Agreed...huah for light fixed-wing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire4effect Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I actually met a guy over there in 2008 who was training Iraqis on the Caravan. Pretty sweet deal. Wish I could have done it. I love the Hellfire. I don't think there's many platforms you can't put it on. If the bad guys hear a platform overhead i.e. UAVs, Apachies, Caravans etc, that the bad guys know can fire or at least target for a Hellfire they tend to spend less time attacking our forces and more time looking for cover. Loiter time is a BIG help for those of us on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinGrunt Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 cool. Now let's put em on the gunship! You can never have too much firepower(though it might be the last straw on our drag index, I guess) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contraildash Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 cool. Now let's put em on the gunship! You can never have too much firepower(though it might be the last straw on our drag index, I guess) lol nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayton Bigsby Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 lol nice Wasn't it originally part of the plan to put them on the u-boats? Also, would you fire it forward, or sideways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinGrunt Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 yes, there was a plan at one point to put them on the u-boat. I'm too much of a noob to know the specifics, though. I'm not sure how you'd fire em sideways, though . . . I'm thinking forward, just slew the IR ball etc etc. They'd probably have to be waaaay outboard pylons though - I wouldn't want to risk one going through the prop arc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire4effect Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I thought I saw a picture of a special mission Caravan that fired a minigun out the cargo door. Wouldn't think that would be too much of a stretch. Matter of fact I think a lot of light aircraft too small for the Hellfire could use lateral firing automatic weapons in the COIN fight. The AC-130 model is effective at concentrating fire on a particular area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) Lt. Col. Christopher Spigelmire, an F-15 Eagle pilot and commander of the 521st Air Expeditionary Advisory Squadron at Kirkuk Air Base, Iraq. If this is the same guy (and I think it is), I wonder if he is liked any more now by his squadron as a commander than he was by his squadron mates when he was a C-130 IP. Edited July 13, 2009 by Herk Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
338skybolt Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 The company I work for (ATK) outfitted the Cessna's with their ISR suite and hellfires. I'll insert a "read more about it here" link when I get it to work. ATK is delivering 3 more such-outfitted Cessna's, with the addition of a MWS, by the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bear Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'll admit I don't know a whole lot about the systems, but couldn't one manpad or RPG take out one of these Cessnas? What's to keep the enemy ground troops from just shooting them down? I can't imagine they're very maneuverable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsplayr Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'll admit I don't know a whole lot about the systems, but couldn't one manpad or RPG take out one of these Cessnas? What's to keep the enemy ground troops from just shooting them down? I can't imagine they're very maneuverable. No different than and maybe safer than helos since they don't exactly stop and hover 10 feet off the ground in urban areas (i.e. extremely high-threat potential areas). It's just a risk you assume when flying low and slow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac airlifter Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'll admit I don't know a whole lot about the systems, but couldn't one manpad or RPG take out one of these Cessnas? What's to keep the enemy ground troops from just shooting them down? I can't imagine they're very maneuverable. Maneuverability doesn't have a whole lot to do with evading manpads, and I personally don't consider an RPG a major threat against fixed wing. You'd have be very close to a shooter with an excellent eye for leading the shot. Besides, couldn't one manpad or RPG take down just about anything anyone on here flies given the right placement? It's a risk we accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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