Leadership at the 'Deid

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

This thread is long overdue for a reality check. Guys keep asking where the LEADERS are, they're all over this board. We have people of all ranks here who come on and bitch, and then happily go to work the next day with their reflective belt in hand because we all know that nobody's going to do or say anything about it. There's no more Oldses or Boyds or Mitchells out there, or in here. It's amazing the cognitive dissonance that goes on with guys who will risk life and limb going into hostile fire to kill the enemy, but are too afraid to speak up about something that so clearly bothers them. Then again, a war hero flag waving patriot is socially acceptable to the military community. Someone who questions authority or doesn't play the game isn't.

Reflective belts will continue on because it's easier to stay quiet and be a good little air-space-cyberspace warrior who follows the rules, plays the game, and climbs the ladder. Hell, even I admit that I take the path of least resistance, but then again I'm not the one here trying to pass the leadership buck to others.

not sure about others, but i've pushed this up through my chain last time I was at the deid, both through my squadron, and through wing safety, and got nowhere. My lowly 1Lt rank doesn't go far for making things like that happen. I'll fight the good fight through resistance, but this is a battle suited for O-4 and above I'm afraid.

[tac airlifter]

This thread is long overdue for a reality check. Guys keep asking where the LEADERS are, they're all over this board. We have people of all ranks here who come on and bitch, and then happily go to work the next day with their reflective belt in hand because we all know that nobody's going to do or say anything about it. There's no more Oldses or Boyds or Mitchells out there, or in here. It's amazing the cognitive dissonance that goes on with guys who will risk life and limb going into hostile fire to kill the enemy, but are too afraid to speak up about something that so clearly bothers them. Then again, a war hero flag waving patriot is socially acceptable to the military community. Someone who questions authority or doesn't play the game isn't.

Reflective belts will continue on because it's easier to stay quiet and be a good little air-space-cyberspace warrior who follows the rules, plays the game, and climbs the ladder. Hell, even I admit that I take the path of least resistance, but then again I'm not the one here trying to pass the leadership buck to others.

You ought to rethink your post. If an 0-7 installation Commander issues an order that I think is stupid, I still have an obligation to obey. And I wouldn't tolerate open insubordiation or mutany or whatever it is you are calling for with the "do anything about it" line. I can't do anything about it except bring it up to my boss, which happens ALL the time. Ergo, people come here to bitch about this inane policy because what else can we do without going to jail? The fact is, if the boss orders me to dress like a clown I still have to do it. I lead in my capacity, who are you to say I (we) don't?

[BFM this]

[...]Seriously, are there statistics showing that people hit by cars is down with reflective belt wear?[...]

Before some shoe logs in and pulls the pin on this one, I'll say it: yes. There are statistics supporting reflective belt wear. But I will submit that these are the same stats that support no headphones on base.

These stats say that if someone is hit by a vehicle and doesn't have a RB (or was waring HP's), that is the cause. Now before I cite the number of times that I have gone running in my neighborhood (to include rural roads), at night, sans RB, keeping pace with OAR, and lived to tell the tale, I just want to point out the unnamed third horse of this trifecta, soon to be ignored at a Died near you: the vehicle operator.

Yes, B&G's, theres some dips#it out there right now, ignoring calls from MOC on his brick, texting away, while driving the finance sixpack to the shopette for a 1L Monster. I could be jogging in neon lights, with my portable RWR set to xtreme, and this dude would barely miss me.

Here's my K4AD fix: Mishap happens--the driver gets charged with everything in the UCMJ from the table of contents to index. For one thing, he just destroyed govt poperty. Second, disrupted mission essential activity (PT).

Real world fix: pin our faith and responsibility on a $8 piece of reflective plastic.

Personal responsibility? Nah: too hard to codify in an AFI.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Hell, I almost had a truck full of ATOC kids drive into my airplane at the Deid...rolling into parking over by the ATOC to drop off pax, position lights were flashing, strobes on, the whole deal...and these clowns were smoking and joking in the truck and damn near collided with us. I stopped on the brakes and then realized I couldn't do anything if those clowns drove into my parked airplane, with all four props turning...lucky for them they looked out their windshield finally. Idiot driver waved and then drove around us. I'm pretty sure if a loud Herk with lights ablaze wouldn't get their attention, a small disco belt wouldn't either.

[SuperWSO]

I'm pretty sure if a loud Herk with lights ablaze wouldn't get their attention, a small disco belt wouldn't either.

Huey, you guys should have done this...

I'm certain that would have helped, plus you could have taxied into the chow hall legally. Barring that, make the FE wear a reflective belt (inside the aircraft) during ground ops on all future sorties. I'm sure the glow from the cockpit would grab the drivers attention.

[/sarcasm]

Edited November 13, 2009 by SuperWSO

[Herk Driver]

Postponed until Saturday. Stay tuned.

OK, so what was the end result; or were you told to stop posting on Baseops and other social networking sites?

[Butters]

This thread is long overdue for a reality check. Guys keep asking where the LEADERS are, they're all over this board. We have people of all ranks here who come on and bitch, and then happily go to work the next day with their reflective belt in hand because we all know that nobody's going to do or say anything about it. There's no more Oldses or Boyds or Mitchells out there, or in here. It's amazing the cognitive dissonance that goes on with guys who will risk life and limb going into hostile fire to kill the enemy, but are too afraid to speak up about something that so clearly bothers them. Then again, a war hero flag waving patriot is socially acceptable to the military community. Someone who questions authority or doesn't play the game isn't.

Reflective belts will continue on because it's easier to stay quiet and be a good little air-space-cyberspace warrior who follows the rules, plays the game, and climbs the ladder. Hell, even I admit that I take the path of least resistance, but then again I'm not the one here trying to pass the leadership buck to others.

[SuperWSO]

OK, so what was the end result; or were you told to stop posting on Baseops and other social networking sites?

I'm with HD. Those of us geographically separated from the land of tucked t-shirt belt wearers are eager to hear the latest installment. Did they postpone the update or did the com nazi's cut off all access to Baseops?

[JeepGuyC17]

I'm with HD. Those of us geographically separated from the land of tucked t-shirt belt wearers are eager to hear the latest installment. Did they postpone the update or did the com nazi's cut off all access to Baseops?

I wouldn't be surprised if they did arbitrarily block sources of dissent, taking a page from the communist China playbook.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

it was a trap, all officers were arrested.

[capt4fans]

News on the O-Call please......those of us out here in the real world would like to know what happened in clown land today.

[BQZip01]

it was a trap, all officers were arrested.

[JS]

THIS IS THE BASE COMMANDER OF AL UDEID TRANSMITTING FROM A REBEL'S ACCOUNT. THE REBELLION HAS BEEN CRUSHED, AND ALL REBELS HAVE BEEN LIQUIDATED. SLAM 1 OUT.

[BQZip01]

THIS IS THE BASE COMMANDER OF AL UDEID TRANSMITTING FROM A REBEL'S ACCOUNT. THE REBELLION HAS BEEN CRUSHED, AND ALL REBELS HAVE BEEN LIQUIDATED. SLAM 1 OUT.

In honor of the Star Wars reference, here's what really happened on the AUAB, I mean Death Star, run

Gold Two: The guns - they've stopped!

Gold Five: Stabilize your rear deflectors... Watch for enemy leadership.

Gold Leader: They're coming in! (sts) Three Colonels at 2-10!

[Gold Two disappears in a fiery explosion...probably because he didn't have a reflective belt and was run over by a droid]

Gold Five: Keep going! Don't stop! (sts...actually, all that follows seems to be an interesting sts)

Gold Leader: It's no good, I can't maneuver!

Gold Five: Stay on target.

Gold Leader: *We're too close!*

Gold Five: Stay on target!

Gold Leader: [shouts] Loosen up!(sts)

[Gold Leader disappears in a fireball after attempting to eat chow without a reflective belt. Gold Five eats his food faster]

Gold Five: Gold Five to Red Leader, lost Tiree, lost Dutch.

Red Leader: Copy, Gold Leader.

Gold Five: They came from... behind! (sts)

[Gold Five is also caught and executed for poor RB usage]

Edited November 15, 2009 by BQZip01

[JS]

<br />News on the O-Call please......those of us out here in the real world would like to know what happened in clown land today.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

The Officer's Call actually had no mention of reflective belts, PT gear, or any of the other general buffoonery associated with the Deid. He basically mentioned a few internal Deid issues (that probably shouldn't be discussed here), and reminded the officers to keep up the good fight, maintain integrity, and set the example. Really wasn't as big of a deal as initially thought.

If anyone really wants to know more of the boring details, please private-message me and I can elaborate.

[pawnman]

<br /><br /><br />

The Officer's Call actually had no mention of reflective belts, PT gear, or any of the other general buffoonery associated with the Deid. He basically mentioned a few internal Deid issues (that probably shouldn't be discussed here), and reminded the officers to keep up the good fight, maintain integrity, and set the example. Really wasn't as big of a deal as initially thought.

If anyone really wants to know more of the boring details, please private-message me and I can elaborate.

2. No reflective belt talk...all the chastisement was well-deserved, clean kills.

[JS]

<br />OK, so what was the end result; or were you told to stop posting on Baseops and other social networking sites?<br />

Along the lines of posting on this board and facebook etc. – I would recommend that people (especially at the Died) not post to this site from a government computer. I have heard higher-ups mention this site, along with “the blogs (presumably the militarytimes.com blog about reflective belts).” I have also seen emails from the shirts to commanders reporting back the goings on of the internet and this site in particular.

A friend is a computer guy and he has noticed that when you log into a government computer at the Deid (probably the same back home), they run some scripts that start a hidden keylogger and remote viewer that allows the comm guys to see what you see on your screen. This stuff has been out there for years, no doubt, but think how easy it would be to track down someone who posted something remotely controversial or sensitive on this site. The general simply asks the comm guys to find out the local IP address and CAC card associated with that login for anyone who accessed 216.246.55.211 (this website’s address). From there, they simply run the remote viewer and see that login “JS” is being viewed on a government computer that was logged on by by a CAC card registered to Major Hugh G. Rection. From there, the keyloggers have already recorded everything, and it is an easy kill – all with comm tools (pardon the pun) that have been in place on the network for years.

The wifi at the Deid is presumably more difficult to track since you don’t have to register your laptop. If a crime was committed, of course, they could figure out the MAC address of the perpetrating computer, and very easily figure out which access point that computer got its IP address from. With that information, they can start searching computers located near the trailer with the wireless access point that gave the culprit its IP address. Not rocket science, but they would have to actually check your laptop computer for your MAC address to attribute anything to you, so I only post to this site from my laptop computer on the wireless here at the Deid. Unless I commit a no-shit cybercrime, I don’t foresee anyone physically searching my laptop computer.

Just some food for thought for the LTs who are calling out generals, or the captains who are posting official emails from leadership on this forum.

[Ferg]

Along the lines of posting on this board and facebook etc. – I would recommend that people (especially at the Died) not post to this site from a government computer.... I have heard higher-ups mention this site, along with “the blogs (presumably the militarytimes.com blog about reflective belts).” I have also seen emails from the shirts to commanders reporting back the goings on of the internet and this site in particular.

That's an easy fix - just PM your info to somebody else for posting. I'd volunteer to pass along Deid info for the sake of the bros.

[JeepGuyC17]

Well that was somewhat anticlimactic. I guess I'll just continue the Star Wars references to what may or may not have happened at the O-Call:

Baseops poster: "They never even asked me any questions...about reflective belts"

[JeepGuyC17]

Airman: "We don't serve their kind here. Your droids, they'll have to wait outside until they find some reflective belts. Yes, I know he's gold and shiny as hell, but it's my commander's policy. If you don't leave now, I'll have some storm troopers arrest you."

Edited November 15, 2009 by JeepGuyC17

[BQZip01]

Along the lines of posting on this board and facebook etc. – I would recommend that people (especially at the Died) not post to this site from a government computer. I have heard higher-ups mention this site, along with “the blogs (presumably the militarytimes.com blog about reflective belts).” I have also seen emails from the shirts to commanders reporting back the goings on of the internet and this site in particular.

A friend is a computer guy and he has noticed that when you log into a government computer at the Deid (probably the same back home), they run some scripts that start a hidden keylogger and remote viewer that allows the comm guys to see what you see on your screen. This stuff has been out there for years, no doubt, but think how easy it would be to track down someone who posted something remotely controversial or sensitive on this site. The general simply asks the comm guys to find out the local IP address and CAC card associated with that login for anyone who accessed 216.246.55.211 (this website’s address). From there, they simply run the remote viewer and see that login “JS” is being viewed on a government computer that was logged on by by a CAC card registered to Major Hugh G. Rection. From there, the keyloggers have already recorded everything, and it is an easy kill – all with comm tools (pardon the pun) that have been in place on the network for years.

The wifi at the Deid is presumably more difficult to track since you don’t have to register your laptop. If a crime was committed, of course, they could figure out the MAC address of the perpetrating computer, and very easily figure out which access point that computer got its IP address from. With that information, they can start searching computers located near the trailer with the wireless access point that gave the culprit its IP address. Not rocket science, but they would have to actually check your laptop computer for your MAC address to attribute anything to you, so I only post to this site from my laptop computer on the wireless here at the Deid. Unless I commit a no-shit cybercrime, I don’t foresee anyone physically searching my laptop computer.

Just some food for thought for the LTs who are calling out generals, or the captains who are posting official emails from leadership on this forum.

They can check your government computer at will, and they do. I was in Comm and you wouldn't believe the quantity of people who somehow think that no one will notice if you set up your own website for your porn collection. Or that people try to use google's image search to look at previews of porn images. Then there are the brain donors who actively distribute porn via e-mail after acquiring it (do you have any idea how easy it is to get in trouble that way? "Sir, A1C Snuffy sent me this..."

The search criteria, however, is not the same for your laptop/Wifi access. That is your personal computer and they have no right to search it unless a crime has been committed. They CAN monitor what is sent through THEIR Wifi access point, but they cannot use a keylogger or spyware. You don't lose your Constitutional rights just because you are a deployed servicemember (you DO, however, lose all common sense apparently with respect to reflective belts...).

As for the memos, those become a little stickier as they are public documents. The exact same e-mails could be obtained via a Freedom of Information Act request as they were not labeled FOUO (if you have any political aspirations, label every single e-mail you make with this and it could keep your butt out of hot water...make sure it fits FOUO criteria). If they were labeled FOUO and that was removed, we have a punishable crime here folks. As it stands, it makes absolutely no sense to prosecute someone for a FOIA procedural error when it is, in fact, a public document.

Edited November 15, 2009 by BQZip01

[disgruntledemployee]

Several Bothan Spies died attempting to steal the plans to the Reflector Belt Factory.

So, Capt4Fans, does this mean we should now call you Red 5?

...wait, I've got another one.

ST: Where are your reflective belts? Don't you know that the Empire has a rule that everyone must wear a reflective belt while driving speeders with droids in the back?

Obi: [waves hand] We don't need reflective belts, we're hacking the mission.

ST: Sorry, that hand waving doesn't work on us. We've been indoctrinated to strictly enforce RB rules. Is that tunic tucked in young man?

Obi: Well, in that case, I have something else that glows. Would you like to see it?

Edit: to add a better SW reference. This stormtrooper thing could take on a life of its own.

Edited November 16, 2009 by disgruntledemployee

[capt4fans]

Several Bothan Spies died attempting to steal the plans to the Reflector Belt Factory.

So, Capt4Fans, does this mean we should now call you Red 5?

...wait, I've got another one.

What, I can't get Red 1? Or should I go with Yellow 1 since most RB are yellow. Or Green 1? Or Orange 1? I could go on and one. And like I've said before, it's funny about the RB group, as I have a colletion (about 10 at least) of them to include almost all the colors of the rainbow, yet hate/refuse to waer it.

[BQZip01]

What, I can't get Red 1? Or should I go with Yellow 1 since most RB are yellow. Or Green 1? Or Orange 1? I could go on and one. And like I've said before, it's funny about the RB group, as I have a colletion (about 10 at least) of them to include almost all the colors of the rainbow, yet hate/refuse to waer it.

I have dibs on Green 1. If this RB crap is going to make me a little green around the gills, I might as well go for a matching color...

[capt4fans]

I have dibs on Green 1. If this RB crap is going to make me a little green around the gills, I might as well go for a matching color...

I got 2 green RB's. Does that trump your request???

And looks like you need to pick up the next issue of AF Times. I've got it on fairly good authority that the article that RB did the interview for will be in there. Stay tuned for further details.