Gun Talk

[M2]

M2, is it normal for it to be empty like that on a Saturday morning? If so, that's great. I like having the range to myself. The two ranges "close" to Pensacola are almost always packed open-close on the weekends.

It has been in my very limited experience out there. These last two Saturdays I was by myself for the first hour (and I usually don't stay more than an hour). I would expect that to change as we get closer to hunting season, but for the most part it doesn't appear to every get too crowded!

But the other ranges around here tend to be crowded on the weekends as well, that is why I love this "exclusive" range!

Cheers! M2

[Timbonez]

Sweet! Can't wait.

[2sBlind]

Thanks! I'm going out today then for a venting session of mass proportions...

2s Blind.....

[M2]

Thanks! I'm going out today then for a venting session of mass proportions...

2s Blind.....

Let us know how it goes, I've never gone on a Sunday.

I'll be a Class B bachelor next weekend as the wife and kids are off to my mother's for a week. Anyone interested in meeting up to shoot let me know...

Cheers! M2

[Guest Krabs]

Does anybody here have experience with piston-driven ARs?

I'm looking into two options:

1. LWRC M6A2 (14.7 in. barrel, is that legal?)

2. Ruger SR-556

I don't like POF that much and the M6A3 LWRC is more features than I need. The M6A2 has pretty much the exact setup I want, but they are pricey. The Ruger is pretty nice and is cheaper (which means some $ going into optics instead), but I'm unsure about its piston system.

Or, if I went the DI route then the S&W M&P15T or LWRC M6 top my list.

Any advice is appreciated.

[Timbonez]

Does anybody here have experience with piston-driven ARs?

I'm looking into two options:

1. LWRC M6A2 (14.7 in. barrel, is that legal?)

2. Ruger SR-556

I don't like POF that much and the M6A3 LWRC is more features than I need. The M6A2 has pretty much the exact setup I want, but they are pricey. The Ruger is pretty nice and is cheaper (which means some $ going into optics instead), but I'm unsure about its piston system.

Or, if I went the DI route then the S&W M&P15T or LWRC M6 top my list.

Any advice is appreciated.

I own a LWRC M6A1 (BTW, all LWRC rifles are piston driven, including the M6). LWRC's 14.7" barrels are legal because they pin the flash hider which brings the overall barrel length back to the minimum 16" without requiring a tax stamp. Is this your first AR? What do you plan to use it for? If it's your first, I'd suggest getting a DI gun. Every company that puts out a piston AR has their own proprietary system, which means you will need to rely on that company for piston specific parts for your rifle. Between the two rifles, the Ruger is very attractive because of the extra goodies you get for the price. You get a Troy rail, 3 pmags, the BUIS, and some rail covers. You should be able to find a Ruger for around $1500, which is a good price for a complete piston gun, especially with the the accessories it comes with. That being said, the LWRC has the better twist rate barrel for heavier defensive and target loads (i.e. 69+ grs.). LWRC has more experience with the piston system as the Ruger is new as of May this year.

If you decide to go the DI route the Colt 6920 is the rifle that all others are judged by. It's the closest to mil-spec that a "civilian" can get. That doesn't mean there aren't other companies that hit the nail on the head when it comes to a top tier AR. You can't go wrong with Noveske, LMT, Knight's Armament, BCM... and there are a plethora of others that I can name. Go here AR15.com and ask your question. There are some DBags there, but you will get the information you're looking for and you will learn a lot about that AR that you didn't realize existed. Knowing what I know now I would do this as my first AR purchase:

BCM 16" midlength gas upper $475

BCM Full Auto Bolt Carrier Group $160

CavArms Midlength Handguards $20

BCM Forged Charging Handle $24

Troy Rear BUIS $140

Denny's Complete Lower Receiver $335

Total: $1154 before shipping and the transfer for the lower, so round up to $1200. It would be a little cheaper if you bought a stripped lower and built it with a lower parts kit and receiver extension. That's a top tier rifle and would be a better choice than the M&P. There is nothing wrong with the M&P. It's a good rifle, but not to the same level as what I showed you. This is just an example and you should buy something you're comfortable and familiar with. There are so many choices when it comes to purchasing or building an AR it's easy to get overwhelmed. Spend some time on AR15.com and you will learn a lot. As I said before, however, I suggest you buy a DI AR first and then get a piston one if you so choose. If you already own a DI gun, then disregard everything I said and go with the LWRC, but I think you'd be happy with the Ruger as well. The people who own it on AR15 enjoy theirs.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Timbonez

[Guest Krabs]

Timbonez, thanks for the detailed reply! This will be the first AR that I personally own. I have experience with several DI ARs (Fulton Armory, Rock River etc. plus a .22 conversion) my father/brother own, and have been keeping an eye on the piston game since I got wind of the HK 416 a good while back. Just as a sidenote, the other DI I was looking at was actually a LMT 16 (CQB version), not the LWRC M6 like I said (embarrassing brain fade). I was looking at the LMT, which led me to the piston version of the CQB LMT Defender 16, which THEN led me to the M6, which led me to the M6A2...it's a vicious cycle as I'm sure you're aware. Before I knew it, I had the POF and Noveske sites pulled up. I like Noveske and LMT a lot, it's just tiny aesthetic things that eventually pointed me to LWRC.

I perused AR15.com some, but sometimes people are so into it, that tiny things get blown up into huge issues (seriously, how many times can we talk about carrier tilt?) and the good stuff gets lost in the shuffle. I came here for a straightforward answer, and actual personal experience with an LWRC weapon. You provided both, so thanks!

I'm 99% going with the LWRC M6A2. The growing pains the SR9 had make me wary of Ruger's entry into the piston arena, even though I think the SR-556 will be a solid product. I'd rather take no chances when I'm dropping this sort of cash.

Also, solid startup setup for the DIY direct impingement AR.

[Timbonez]

Krabs, I am glad I could help. The LMT Defender is an outstanding AR.

But since you're going with the M6A2... you won't be disappointed with that rifle. I wasn't sure if I wanted to send you to AR15.com or not. A lot of them are fan boys who will take every opportunity to put down other people's purchases, but it's usually easy to see what's good info and what's bad info there. Let me know how your purchase goes and make sure you buy more magazines and ammo to feed it. I've been in such a gun buying craze lately I've made myself poor. I've decided to back off a bit and now I'm just going to focus on getting ammo and working more on marksmanship.

As a side note, the DEA has recently allowed their agents to buy LWRC M6A2s at a discounted price with some extra goodies.

[Guest dictum]

(dictum, you're just joined so I will chalk this up to being a noob, but the entire forum is directed to "aviation and pilots," including the Squadron Bar; and when a thread states "All gun discussions here" it means all gun discussions here! As such, your question has been merged into this thread)

I did use the search feature and came up with the "Gun Talk" thread in the SquadBar but my questions is directed to aviation and pilots.

While being an AD pilot is there still training opportunities and/or certifications you have to maintain in general combat? Firearms? Self-defense?

I know that SERE is required which is great for survival but do they teach and maintain any other survival or combative skills to pilots?

If this is not an AF requirement, is it something you can do in your own time? (Go to the range and checkout a rifle and practice?)

Also, are there ever firearms issued on deployments for pilots and flight-crews?

If it exists elsewhere I apologize, I did read for quite a while before asking....

Thanks.

Edited August 7, 2009 by M2

[slacker]

Yes, as aircrew, you'll maintain qualification on the M9. The qual frequency depends on your arming group. You'll also carry an M9 on flights in theater. If you fly aircraft capable of flying passengers, you might conceal carry depending on the situation for anti-hijack.

I don't know of anyone checking out a rifle and shooting for practice with the air force. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen, though. I'd rather shoot on my own time.

[TacAirCoug]

I'd rather shoot on my own time.

...with my own guns.

[Guest dictum]

Yes, as aircrew, you'll maintain qualification on the M9. The qual frequency depends on your arming group. You'll also carry an M9 on flights in theater. If you fly aircraft capable of flying passengers, you might conceal carry depending on the situation for anti-hijack.

I don't know of anyone checking out a rifle and shooting for practice with the air force. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen, though. I'd rather shoot on my own time.

Do fighter pilots carry a sidearm or any other defense mechanism for if they are shot down/crash?

[slacker]

Do fighter pilots carry a sidearm or any other defense mechanism for if they are shot down/crash?

see previous m9 comment.

[brickhistory]

Some mighty M1 Garand time today with my son.

As it was my Dad's from his time on the AF rifle/pistol team, there was a sense of tradition.

Glass-bedded, National Match barrel, etc, etc. Wish I could do it justice, but that skill didn't pass down.

As well as having the biggest "BOOM" on the range as compared to the various 9mm and .223s being shot by others.

Edited August 7, 2009 by brickhistory

[StoleIt]

Knowing what I know now I would do this as my first AR purchase:

BCM 16" midlength gas upper $475

BCM Full Auto Bolt Carrier Group $160

CavArms Midlength Handguards $20

BCM Forged Charging Handle $24

Troy Rear BUIS $140

Denny's Complete Lower Receiver $335

Total: $1154 before shipping and the transfer for the lower, so round up to $1200. It would be a little cheaper if you bought a stripped lower and built it with a lower parts kit and receiver extension. That's a top tier rifle and would be a better choice than the M&P.

That's funny. That's basically the exact AR I own. Except I got Daniel Defense rails and a Superior Arm's Lower. I LOVE IT!!! Mine was a little less expensive than that because I got it when prices were a bit lower (less demand). But with the DD rails it came out to about ~$1200.

[Timbonez]

Sweet, stoleit. Did you build the lower or did you buy it complete? I actually made it to the range today. I cleaned out my safe the other day so the movers could take it, and I found 50 rounds of .44 magnum. So I decided today would be a good range day for my Smith & Wesson Model 29 and my LWRC AR-15 and it was. 7-15 yards with the S&W and 50, 100, and 200 yards with the LWRC, but now it's time to clean them.

[StoleIt]

Bought it complete.

[Timbonez]

M2, do you know any or of any gunsmiths in San Antonio? I have this Colt Combat Commander that needs some work. The smith I took it to did some of the fitting but didn't have enough time to finish as I am leaving P'cola tomorrow. You can't tell too well in the picture but the slide flats are the standard polished blue. The slide assembly (all original Colt parts) sits on an Essex frame that has a flat blue color. The frame is made up of Colt factory parts and Wilson Combat parts. Thanks.

[M2]

T-bonez

The place to go is HoGuns Sporting on Culebra just north of 410...

Hoguns Sporting

7914 Culebra Rd

San Antonio, TX 78251

(210) 521-2288

Talk to Wayne, the owner, he's a good dude!

Cheers! M2

[M2]

M2, I used to have a Ruger GP100 (the one you pictured) with 4" barrel. It was a great handgun, but I gave it to my brother for Christmas. I bought it new for something like $425-$475, but I can't remember exactly. If it is a GP100 it will come with grips like this:

The switch to the all rubber hogue grip wasn't until recently.

T-bonez

The Ruger arrived today and it is exactly as pictured, and in pristine condition. There is a little evidence of wear on the barrel but that's because it has been shot a couple of times over the past 20 years. Otherwise, it looks just like it did in the gun shop's display case. I just downloaded the manual for it (unfortunately, the original container and instructions are MIA) but it now sits in the spot that my Dad's 1954 Colt .357 used to occupy. That gun will now reside in a display case next to the one holding my Webley. Both will still get the occasional trip to the range, but for the most part they are 'collectibles.'

The Ruger feels lighter than the old Colt, if you can believe it. I also like the rubber grips that surround the wood (as opposed to all wooden grips). I put a bid on some Hogue grips on eBay but I won't mind if I don't win them as these grips are better than I expected. I will take some pics of the two .357s and post them up later...I hope to shoot the Ruger out at Bullis this Saturday morning if not sooner someplace else.

Cheers! M2

[M2]

p.s. Whoops, turned out she did have the owners manual, the wife is bringing it back with her...

[PolyestherDuck]

I just picked up a S&W M&P .40 today. I've never shot well with Glocks or XDs, but the S&W seems to point a lot better for me. On the flip side, I think I'm down to around 1500 rds of .40 now :( Oh well, I still have over 4K rds for my Beretta packed away. Getting ready to PCS and I'm actually going to put the firearms I'm taking with me on my orders. The rest are going into storage. Well, the rest except for the majority portion of my gun collection that I lost in a tragic boating accident back in Nov when the bayonet on my M-14S poked a hole in the bottom of a Zodiac I was riding in while spending quality time on the water.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Disco

[brickhistory]

Well, the rest except for the majority portion of my gun collection that I lost in a tragic boating accident back in Nov when the bayonet on my M-14S poked a hole in the bottom of a Zodiac I was riding in while spending quality time on the water.

Call Robert Ballard and have him find that M-14!

Oh, the horror!!

[M2]

An update for those who are considering shooting at Camp Bullis in NW San Antonio. A few of us learned the hard way yesterday to remember to call before going out, as the range was closed when I got there. For me it isn't a big deal, as I live about ten minutes away; but if you are driving from Randolph or some other distance, remember to give them a quick call before leaving. Their numbers are (210) 295-7529/7577.

Also, there was a fire on one of the ranges yesterday that burned 100 acres of the camp. When it was reported on the news last night, the camp spokesman attributed it to the rifle qualification that was going on at that specific range. He claimed the grass is so dry that it may have been caused by a bullet ricocheting off a rock which caused a spark. I have my doubts, as I drove by that group who were shooting and saw a bunch of them standing around smoking. Still, it might mean that the ranges could be closed until we get out from under this severe drought and high temperatures (it has been a record summer, with at least 47 days of 100°+ temperatures). That's another reason to call before heading out to Bullis.

Still, Bullis has been a great place to shoot. Even with a fair number of folks out there, there is enough room that you can shoot without feeling crowded by the person shooting next to you. Plus, last week I was pelting the guy to my right with brass from my SKS, and the RSO let me close the blind between the two positions so that wouldn't happen. I am still a bit bummed about not being able to shoot yesterday, as I had my new (to me) Ruger .357 revolver with me and I wanted to see how it shot! Still, there's always next week (hopefully!).

Cheers! M2

[slacker]

So, did you see the guy carrying an AR-15 to the political rally in Arizona. It's perfectly legal, but I don't think it's too smart. It seems like you'll just give the anti-gun crowd something to rally around.

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