DeHavilland Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Looking for some insight on flying ops on the African continent. Maybe some C21 guys out of ETAR have something or anyone else. PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techsan Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Send C-21 Pilot a PM, I think he's been up in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C-21 Pilot Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 (edited) What specifically are you looking for, and for what country? Send me a PM about the locations and I'll get more precise...I can give you some pretty good info for just about every country except for Sudan and Ethopia. Also, I would recommend calling either the 76th AS (C-21, C-40, C-20) and/or the 86th OSS/OSK (Wing Tactics) shops, as well as Wing Intel there at Ramstein. If you want a few names, sned me a PM and I will give you name and phone # of the experts. If you are flying northern Sahara, it's pretty much standard flying and mission planning. If it's sub-Sahara, it's much more tricky. Here's some info for you to start w/... 1.) Most airfields will not be in the DoD Flip books...you will have to reference the ASRR and see either host nation or Jepps (MAJCOM approved) approaches. Make sure that you reference all climb gradients, esp for the missed approach. There are quite a few fields that you are literally getting by w/ 152' (2.5%)...both on departure and MA. Last but not least, make SURE you do a valid study of the airfield and taxiways...some fields will have a taxiway w/ a certain WBC, but it's DEFINATELY not suitable for us...i.e, broken concrete beyond repair, weeds coming up to the windshield. Don't count on the info being that correct - if a field says it has asphalt or concrete, it isn't going to be in the best shape and repair. There is also plenty of information about field specific information in the AP series. When transiting Africa, see IATA Inflight Broadcast Procedure (IFBP) Africa Region, found in the FIH starting on B-17. Also, make sure you reference the African IFR Sup. 2.) The *dicey* thing about Africa is the navigation. For this, reference the Flight Information Handbook. It's definately in section B, about mid-way through. You will see that there are mandatory reporting points using HF...sometimes you may be able to use the UHF/VHF, but do not count on it. You will also notice that this region covered in section B is literally non-radar...think very elementary. You are flying DUE REGARD...(i.e. you are your own air traffic control). Have a crewmember be responsible for plotting and listening for other aircraft as they give their position reports. If I recall, there is NO requirtements to have TCAS, so don't rely much on that system in the non-radar environment. Also, you will not receive ANY shortcuts...STAY on your route (except for the hint below) unless the situation dictates otherwise. **Hint - it is VERY wise to fly about .5-1 NM off course left or right, and 200-300' high or low off of planned altitude. Keep in mind Search and Rescue efforts... 3.) Make sure you reference the Foreign Clearance Guide. About 60% of the airfields do not have any services other than fuel, and a majority of those will only except CASH. You should get a cash agent letter signed by your SQ/CC to take to finance. I had always suggested on taking $3K per day per person in the C-21 (covers fuel, hotel, services, taxi, etc.) Depending on your airframe, you should adjust accordingly. Make sure you call the respectable DAO/AAO who can give you more precise amounts. 4.) Check if the field is Raven required...85% of Africa requires them. If in doubt, contact TACC or the Threat Working Group via Intel. 5.) Within your check of the FCG, check Visa requirements. Also, you can ask the DAO to have "Direct to Aircraft/Direct to Hotel". Sometimes, you can bypass security and customs with proper coordination. 6.) Keep in mind that 365 days a year, the weather plays severe factors in determining divert. In the C-21 it's much more critical due to our limited fuel supply. That being said, be smart about a planned divert as well. You DO NOT, repeat DO NOT want to plan a divert to anywhere in Sudan. DO not accept a divert without first checking with Intel. Short story...AMOCC had me planned to fly into Riwanda with a divert at a field that literally had a hijacked Kenyan Airliner on the tarmac...uh, don't think so. Before your AC makes a rash decision on where to divert, keep in mind the location and country. I would recommend getting an Intel brief for your "route of flight", rather on your planned fuel stops. What if you have to divert into Central African Republic and show up in this 3rd world Muslim country unannounced in an American flagged airplane...BTDT, got the T-Shirt. Also, screw Velocity Initiaitive...plan to tanker AS MUCH good gas as you can to each location. A majority of the locations in Africa had sub-terranian tanks located on the airfield. They do not sump the fuel and there is sometimes water. Make sure you get the fuel checked in your view before it's placed on the plane. I would also recommend putting some extra Prist if your Dash-1 allows if you suspect contaminated gas. If you plan on flying into a major hub (Cairo, Carthage, Nairobi, etc), no need to worry. If you are going more isolated fields (Tammassaret, etc) then plan on tankering. 7.) If you have the ability, recommend doing a low approach over the runway as slow as possible to get a layout. I've been to more than one field where the only patch of concrete was the airfield, so, people literally had huts and shit on the field to stay out of the dirt and mud. 8.) A majority of the fields will be uncontrolled, non-radar. Keep in mind the issue w/ Jepps approaches. Jepps is a printing company. Hopefully, you do a good terrain study. As well, after you fly into that airfield, MAKE SURE you guys do a airfield survey. Contact TACC/AMOCC for the details. 9.) Take several 5 gallon water jugs. If you break, that will probably be your ONLY source of drinking water for a while. Along those lines, bring some non-perishable food...mainly crackers, jerkey, etc. Again, if you break, don't count on "edible" food being available. 10.) If you have any time off, make sure you go see what little Africa has to offer. In the C-21, we always took candy on our trips...passed out to all of the kids we could find. Also, I was broke for 13 days in Uganda. Received permission and me and the CP bought 500 soccer balls and donated to local orphanages... 11.) If your unit has Falcon View, trace all of your routes while in Africa. Print out a TPC and closer for every airfield. Take a look at the approach as compared to the FV chart... Most of these are pretty common sense...just some issues that I have seen. In the C-21, we are extremly limited on fuel - therefore, issues like diverts, tankering, etc play close to the heart. Flying in Africa is one of the major hurdles that I have faced in my flying career. It will definately test your ability. Keep in mind, if you are flying into a major hub, you should be well taken care of. if you are flying into a remote region w/ limited services, be on your toes. -Cheers Here's 2 pics showing what Africa has to offer: 1.) Moundou, Chad...where over 500K people sit starving, no purified water source, etc. 2.) Jinja, Uganda...the source of the Nile River Edited February 28, 2007 by C-21 Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSXR6Racer Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I asked my wife if the 1st picture was Africa or Oklahoma and she said it had to be Africa because there was too much water! There is alot of great info there, I am gonna print that out and put that in my bag of goodies for future ref. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Davies Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I'm not sure if I should admit it, but I found your post fascinating, C-21 Pilot. There must be some great stories to be told about flying in Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ill Destructor Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I'll handily admit that I was fascinated. Hopefully I'll get to see similar things and have similar experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techsan Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Good post C-21. If anyone is flying into Louisianna, the same rules apply...be sure to try the smoked nutria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C-21 Pilot Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Ahh... Memories of staying in 5 star accomidations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C-21 Pilot Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 More pics from Africa... At Jinja, source of the nile.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baseops.Net Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Allright, As a moderator you know you have access to your own Photo Galleries and Blogs, right? So you've been holding out on us, eh? With the diverse photos you've been attaching in this thread, I would expect a sizeable photo gallery! Share man, share! Click on HELP (upper right) for instructions on how to start. ---------------------- As far as Africa goes -- I have a few anecdotal stories. On one particular trip, we were flying a series of missions between Addis Ethiopia and Asmara Eritrea to broker peace and try to end their war -- the charts showed a subdued colored "restricted area" right inbetween the two countries. So the first time we flew this leg we skirted way around this area to avoid it - it added considerable time to the journey as I was flying C-130s back then... After doing this long detour several times, we all wondered how much quicker it would have been had we simply filed direct and flew across this area - besides, there is little or no radar control in Africa, right? Then about a week later we read a news report of a learjet that was flying near that area, strayed off course into this "dangerous area" and got shot down. Everyone was killed on board! YIKES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHS17 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I've only been to Africa once in Barney and my input is small. Brush up on your 1801 skills. You'll have to file, in person, in triplicate. There is a lot to see if you have time: pyramids, nature preserves, Lake Victoria (the source of the Nile), interesting local markets, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HercDude Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Getting the HOA runs out of Al Udeid was always a good deal in my opinion. Got to see some really remote places - anyone here been to Gode, Ethopia? I saw stuff that was really far off the radar scope in places no one I know had ever even heard of. The kind of places you have to pass over to clear camels off the runway, the tower is a Army dude on an ATV waering basketball shorts and an M-4, and the only fuel available comes out of a 50 gallon drum. Breaking in Mombasa for a week wasn't bad either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzy Bear Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 For small planes.... For Africa and everywhere else, how do I tell if I need to add PRIST or other anti-ice? Often there is a significant language barrier, so I end up adding it to be safe. Over time, though, I don't want to be adding too much. I used to think if it was JP-5, JP-8, etc that I could be certain it already had anti-ice, but now I'm not sure. FWIW, I pretty much end up adding it 100% of the time when I am not at a US military base. Anyone do something different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prozac Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 If I remember right. Jet A1+ and JP-8 have icing inhibitors already added. Everything else, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzy Bear Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Not even JP-5? Interesting. OK, that's better gouge than I've gotten. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Not even JP-5? Interesting. OK, that's better gouge than I've gotten. Thank you. JP-5 has FSII like JP-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarheadBoom Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Good info here, straight from a major producer: World-wide Civil Jet Fuel Grades Military Jet Fuel Grades and Specifications (NATO) Basically, if the fuel isn't JP-8 or JP-5, there's no assurance that there's a FSII in it unless it's clearly stated by the FBO, or requested during the fuel order (and visually verified at the truck). PRIST and other FSII brands have limited biocidal properties (to prevent microbial growth in fuel systems), so some operations that don't even get into the Flight Levels still request it. When I worked at Sikorsky on their .civ production side, our fuel trucks added PRIST year-round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARIs 'R' Us Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 For small planes.... For Africa and everywhere else, how do I tell if I need to add PRIST or other anti-ice? Try the Enroute Supplement/AFD (it's the green one). Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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