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IIRC, there is a minimum TOS, but being around longer doesn't directly moe you up the list. It's all about your short tour return date. I say it doesn't directly move you up the list, but if he guy ahead of you only has 1 week TOS, pretty sure it's coming your way. Make sense?

I have seen 3 x passed over dudes thrown into 365s. As I understand them they are based on your short tour return date but I would like to point out if you take continuation irregardless of your strd you are now at the top of the list for a 365. Because you are passed over and not promoted. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I side with you. I want to do our fair share but I don't feel like anyone else is willing to do so. They don't have the proper frame of reference. We have a force used to being used/abused more so than any other generation. On the same hand we have a general population that is completely out of phase with us. Even if the COLA reduction could be used to prevent further reduction in military ability I don't trust it will be used that way. The different pot of money argument runs out at this point. What if the earned income tax credit were reduced by 500? How much would we save? At the end of the day we need a budget. The COLA argument is fair but until everyone in this country can stand up and do their fair share I won't agree. What exactly is a fair share? I don't know but I feel like my short tour return date earns me exactly the retirement we have now... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The point many are missing, and it has been said, is that this is AFSC specific. 181 for a short tour is actually a current exception to policy that dates back to 2002/2003, IIRC. But, I can tell you there are many people that are doing 179's that are being kept here by CC's for the magic two weeks. A stroke of a pen and you can be held for 2 weeks, no big deal. Do away with the ETP and that 179 becomes 194 w/o any consideration for what they have just done. I know a location where the boss is getting considerable pressure to end the tactic because he is pushing everyone to/ over 181. There is benefit to having a system that identifies where it is broken and tries to fix itself. W/o that ETP, no one would give two cents what this guy is doing or why he is doing it. Seriously, if you don't want a 365, volunteer for one of the good deal 179's /possible short tours.

I’m sorry that I missed this website. Just last night, I found out from a colleague that Doc was “canned” from MSU. Doc--Good riddance, hope the door didn’t hit you on the way out. MSU is much better off without you. Good thing you left without damaging too much. I was an officer who served under Doc Foglesong at Columbus AFB when he was there in 1993. Doc Foglesong IS an idiot. For the short time he was there, he nearly ruined Columbus AFB. He made a lot of great people retire. They weren’t going to put up with his crap. For example, Dr. Mary Alexander at MSU was one of the ones who called it quits as a Lt Col when she was Doc’s executive officer at Columbus in the 1990’s. She was chosen as the Executive Officer under the previous commander…a great man…a great leader…whom I respect and took up for when Doc talked bad about him…(ret) Colonel Nick P. Ardillo, Jr. Doc didn’t like me taking-up for Colonel Ardillo. I found it amazing that Mary survived him at MSU. Doc almost ran off the long-time “senior” Wing Commander’s secretary…”Ms Thelgy”. I remember her telling me about Doc “it’s not a matter of how long the storm will last, but how much damage it will do along the way”. She was referring to Doc’s time at Columbus AFB, and all the damage he was doing. We all knew he was short-lived, only “filling a square” under Gen McPeak, another idiot who ruined the Air Force while he was Chef of Staff. I recall Doc was at Columbus for about 9 months, a very short tour for any commander. Doc would call meetings on Sunday, yes Sunday, and have his commander’s wait in his waiting area for over an hour. He would come out of the office about every 20 minutes and just look over there and say “now, what was our meeting all about?, oh yeah, that’s right, I’ll be with you in a minute”. When we finally got in to see him, he took 30 SECONDS to say what he wanted to say and dismissed us. What a moron. He would call commander’s at 4am to tell them they had an unauthorized tobacco “butt can” in front of their building and they need to remove it NOW. He also did the same for a single light being left on in an aircraft hanger. All times of the night, he rode around the base making calls to people. So it didn’t surprise me when I read about all the stupid things he did at MSU. Doc would befriend the resource commander (known as “FM”—financial management) on base because this was the person who controlled ALL the money. Doc would have funds switched from one account over to another; whatever Doc wanted, DOC got. He would call the resource commander at 5am and talk to him about ideas he had for money. What an idiot. Doc had his secretary call me up, and she would say “Colonel Foglesong wants you to meet him outside, he will come by and pick you up in his staff car”. I would stand outside in the 100-degree humid heat and he would drive around the base within 150 yards of me, see me, but not picking me up. This was his way of controlling people. About 30 minutes later, after I was drenched in sweat, he would pick me up and try to convince me to back him up on a crazy idea of moving some money around “for one of his projects”. Until I said, “yes, ok, fine, I agree, I’ll back you up”, I wasn’t getting out of his staff car. He would ride around in circles on the airfield until I agreed with his crazy idea. I argued as long as I could and yes, I gave good justification, but he wouldn’t listen. Doc’s a nut. Doc would “hangout” with the lowest ranking Airmen, to “snoop around” and find out what was happening in a squadron. He befriended them so much that it was difficult to get those Airmen to do anything, since “they had Doc on their side”. This was against good military law and order. For years after he made general, he did this same thing; after-hours, he would jog around a (visited) base and stop by the dorms or a work place to talk to the Airmen, Doc’s way of micro-managing any commander he could. I am sure that he would interact with the MSU students, just like he did the Airmen. Like the Airman, I’m sure they liked it. Doc probably had an open-door policy with a few students who gave him advice. I could’ve told you that he wasn’t going to interact with the MSU faculty or staff, because he doesn’t want to hear the truth or ANY others ideas from his colleagues. Doc Foglesong never listened to his commanders, unless it was the two that he brought onto the base. He normally had two or three “followers” with him, when he arrived. Without them, he had no cheerleaders. As one of his Captain executive officer’s once told me, “as high ranking as he is, surprisingly, he has little self-confidence”. The executive officer went on to say, Doc was “too young to lead, and too arrogant to listen to his best people”. Good leaders surround themselves with good people, and listen to their people. Being a fighter pilot is not an excuse for his demeanor. He is in a league, all his own. At Columbus, I had a co-worker who got a bland rating on his promotion recommendation form (PRF), and Foglesong would not talk to him about it. The Captain got a “Promote” instead of a Definitely Promote”. Doc was REQUIRED to explain (give feedback) why he was rated the way he was, or at least talk to him, explain or answer his questions or concerns, but Doc kept canceling the appointment with the Captain, and finally left the word with the Captain’s boss that “I don’t want to talk to him, and tell him to Stop calling my office!” The Captain's outstanding record promoted the Captain to Major. In Doc’s replies concerning the MSU complaints about him, I noticed that he didn’t even address the actual complaints. Doc loves to avoid the truth. Instead, he danced around with some weird quotes that he probably copied off the Internet. At the Change of Command ceremony, when Doc was leaving Columbus. He never once addressed the hundreds of troops standing in a parade on the hot and humid flight line. Instead, he turned his back on them and addressed the Columbus mayor and DV’s on the stand behind the podium…how sad. He never mentioned all of the accomplishments of the troops or thanked them. Every “good” commander addresses the troops when he departs. When his wife Mary kissed him, he acted like a Hollywood actor by wiping off his face as though he had a pile of slobber on it. In front of hundreds, Doc disrespected Mary. After he left Columbus AFB Mississippi, Doc went on to ruin Osan AB South Korea. For the first time, he made a curfew for being off base. In disbelief, the merchants and people of the local community protested. He was good at making a mountain out of a molehill. In order to get his way, he would exaggerate a problem. He built gun revetments all over the place at Osan, making it look like a war zone. Never before, had I seen a place be built up so fast. Yet, nothing militarily or socially had changed. It was all in his head. It was Doc trying to make himself look like a Combat hero. Combat Time? At Columbus, Doc would give speeches and talks about combat time, like he had hours of combat experience. He would say “in combat, you must…….”. In his speeches, he led us to believe he had combat time. So in 1993, we went to his official flight records folder in the OSS and saw NO COMBAT time. No combat time in the F-16, and actually and for someone of his rank, his flying hours in the F-16 were really low. He was a staffer, and a square-filler. If he retired with combat time, it was far after he had pinned on Brigadier General. And Doc was not seen as one to put his life on the line for anyone. Doc was all about himself. Copy-cat. On Doc’s website http://www.alefwv.com/founder.htm, (The Appalachian Leadership and Education Foundation (ALEF)) Doc directly plagiarizes a quote from the USAF…Our promise to ourselves and to our Fellows is to commit to “integrity, service before self and excellence in all we do”. The last part is directly from the USAF posters, official documents, and advertisement. Doesn’t an educator know about the consequences of plagiarism? You, Doc Foglesong, have ruined a lot of lives. Your way--or the highway, well hit the highway. Yes, go back to West Virginia, go put your big head in a coalmine, and don’t come out. You’re no leader, you’re a dictator. You’re an IDIOT.

Did they still get short tour credit? That would suck to vol for a 365 and get sent home "early", only to have your name thrown back in the hat to be eligible for another one down the road.

Yes, a free agent that works a 0900 to 1300 job with a 1.5 hour lunch, 4 days a week. Customer is still happy because we answer our cell phones and emails. Then we dazzle them with airlift knowledge. 3.5 years left till 20. I have already done a real short tour so I am at the bottom of that list. I was lucky, but only because like many have said here before... I bloomed where I was planted and worked my next deployment/assignment myself, before the AF did it for me. I also had really good bosses at the right time. I am leaving at 20, not going to the airlines... I like job security.

I'm working this same issue at the same base, just waiting for my latest deployment to show up to start working the OS credits. AFI 36-2110 clearly states in the credit table (table 3.4) that you get both, which makes sense (I mean, how else can you get short tour credit for 548/3 years) Edit: MPF works the OS credit, but IPR has to input the deployment into MILPDS, which evidently takes 45 days

IPR is responsible for loading 365-day ITDYs into "the system," which they currently can't do right now because the MilPDS v 2.0 isn't compatible. You'll have to have AFPC load the short tour manually.

Trying to get my STRD and short tour counter updated has proven more difficult than I thought it would be. Apparently when MilPDS updated in March it broke the ability for IPR to load the deployment info into "the system" and until the software designers fix the problem they (MPF, IPR) can't update my STRD or counter from the base level (whatever that means). The saga continues. Now, that's progress.

I took all of my travel vouchers to MPF. I had short tour credit in about 15 min.

Basically, AFPC sucks at life. I just finished up a series of deployments two weeks ago that would give me short tour credit. I talked to MPF about updating my STRD, and they said it's a quick process once the deployment is showing in the system, but that I'd have to work through IPR to get the deployment in the system. When I went to IPR, they said it takes AFPC 45 days to load a contingency deployment in the system, and that was the LIMFAC for getting it updated. They also told me that several other officers at my base were having the same problem as me with AFPC taking forever to update the information. It's also made it a pain to get my PDMRA days, and I'm trying to get another deployment turned off due to it violating dwell time.

Thread revival. Heading unaccompanied to Osan for a short tour. Anybody know what the unaccompanied FGO dorms are like?

Being nominated for the Medal of Honor automatically hacks your short tour credit (BET ME it doesn't). Anyone willing to press-to-test nominating yourself for a MOH? If a BS if fair game to nominate yourself, where is the line?

A lot of Tempo Band E SNCOs are getting tasked within days of dropping their retirement paperwork... knew a dude that had 3 short tours in the previous 3 years - came back and filed for retirement and was tasked again with only a few months home with the retirement date bumped back so that he's return, inprocess the base, outprocess for retirement, and burn all his leave. It was that - or separate within 3 days... tough sell. AFPC/AEF Center are definitely squeezing that last short tour out of everybody...

Thanks for the info everybody. They sure did not make it easy to get a short tour with these new changes...at least not in the C-17 community (unless of course you go on a 365).

Yes, you need to be (or have been) a qualified IP in one airframe or another. The 172's and 208's are at Kirkuk, not Taji. Here we have the Hueys and Mi-17's. These 365's count as a remote tour (kind of). You get short tour credit but you don't PCS, which means you still get your BAH since you are technically 'TDY'. You make a a lot more $$$ on 365's than you do on remote tours to Korea (or so I've been told).

Maybe I'm missing your point, or maybe my math is bad, but why would anybody stay in that Battalion for 7+ years? Pretty sure I would've punched during the "home for 16" part. Mine says 8/21/12. I used 27 days of use/lose and I've been gone at least 45 days already since my short tour return. I don't even fly tankers.

There's a mx officer job supporting the same thing, also a short tour. I think there's also a couple C-130 pilot jobs and a mx officer job doing the same type of thing with Herks in Poland, but I might be mistaken on that.

It's amazing how upper managment in the unit buys the Big Blue party line, "If you get sanctuary, the active duty can sent you ANYWHERE! ANYWHERE!" and trys to scare you with lurid tales of the AD shanghaing helpless Guardsman and sending them to a foxhole in Afghanistan, come on really! first off as a flyer for over 20 years and having only a year and four months to get 7300 points, I already have a short tour for overseas, if I get mobilized I'm going to be deployed and get dwell time when I get back and can't get deployed and besides the AD does not want some 33 plus year crusty SMSgt showing up in their "day care" squadron! Plus as a Guardsman if you get sanctuary you become an AGR. All the flyers I knew who got sanctuary ended up staying in their units.

It all depends on your AFSC. If you have an AMC patch on your flightsuit, you may never be permanently based overseas (though AMC guys definately get their fair share of time outside the CONUS). If you're a fighter guy, then it's a safe bet that over a long enough timeline you'll be going remote. Typically both flying and nonflying remote short tours are one year unaccompanied. There are some strange ducks out there though - for instance there are some 2-year accompanied tours to Osan. Those still have remote tour credit but I'm not so sure about short tour credit. If you go to the AFPC assignments web page, the different assignment teams there should have something posted with a more in-depth scoop on what different MWSs can expect.

Kayla, "You" means "ya'll." If he's deployed, and it's something you can do, go ahead and do it. Enrolling him in EFMP is something that shold be done ASAP regardless of who does it. He's probably on the vulnerable list for a 365 due to time in service and time since last short tour (if any). But once he returns from a regular deployment, he's protected for 1 yr from an Indeterminate TDY (iTDY) aka a 365. AFI 36-2110 Chapter 5. Assignment notifications for the Summer cycle will come out around March for RNTLDs between June and Sep.

Shoe standard. Meanwhile over in the Maintenance Complex some poor (now divorced) crew chief/weapons loader is deploying for the 7,000th time. After just getting back from his 3rd Korea short tour in 8 years. Been there, seen it happen...

This email officially shows that most people at the Deid don't even know there is a war still going on that they are supposed to be there supporting. They just think they get to go to the desert, get "combat" pay and tax free pay, check a container for a deployment and possibly get a short tour and that is about it. The rest of their time is spent drinking their 3 beers a day, suntanning at the pool, working on their masters, bachelors, PME and PLAYING soldier. It is time to start bringing people home from the Deid and giving them real jobs throughout the AF!

Ok, question on 36-2110 interpretation in reference to the "300 days in a 18 month period" rule. I'm stationed in USAFE. When January 2012 rolls around, I'll have been TDY for 9+ months. Except for 9 days, that's all consecutive. That said, only 179 of those days will have been spent in the AOR. The rest were deployment training back in CONUS. Do the TDY days in CONUS count towards a short tour? If they count, I can more than enough make up the roughly 30 day differnece to meet the 300 days w/in 18 months requirement with all my TDYs around Europe and Africa. Actually now that I think about it, in this calendar year alone, I will have been TDY almost 280 days. edit spelling