Lawman

Meh, you pretty much just described every FMS program ever. At least with Israel they are gonna buy enough copies of it to make it worth while in the long run money game. It's the countries that buy a token set piece of aircraft/etc to fly around the flagpole with FMS programs that bug me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Anybody surprised by this hasn't paid attention to every other aircraft bought by the Israelis over the last 30 years. Look at a picture of a Boeing built AH-64D.... Then look at the Israeli version of it. It starts very quickly looking like a different helicopter. The Israelis have an outstanding domestic avionics and weapons development industry. They however need to keep that monster fed so plumbing jets with their own stuff just makes sense. They want to be able to stick their bombs/missiles/Python Vs not be subject to the changing winds of arms regulation. As for additional gas and EW remember The IAF doesn't have near the support capability that we do. I wouldn't be surprised to see Japan do the same thing. Again working with their 60s some of the guys from Sikorsky should take notes because they had stuff years before we were asking for it on the Mike models we are building today.

Yup. Lot of dumb lemmings parroting the phrase "be more like Europe" without having any clue as to how those countries manage that system. I wonder how he would have felt if she had been told at age 12, "no sweetheart you didn't qualify high enough so you aren't going to college." Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bro it was a joke as to the negative trends in the lifestyle required by military service (missing meals, drinking rip it's every day, eating high carb processed crap full of sodium and going to bed because of ops cycle, etc) not a stab at the drone community to "suck it up." I don't know how many more different types of surveys and trackers (PDHRA, GAT, this one, etc) military leadership is going to need to do to understand the same conclusion... In general Military living is bad for you.

So similar to every non deployed service member ever... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what they would do across service. In the Army you would give it to your S-1 for upload into IPerms at HRC. If you need a new certificate, I'd try calling the Brigade S1 for the school house at Campbell. I would look up a contact but I'm in the field right now typing this via cell phone internet.

Air assault is just a certificate since it's a pass/fail course. You don't get the 4 check block course completion report card like you would for other courses (flight school XXI for example). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm sure we can get that developed... After we integrate it. We gotta install it first and pay for it to find out how it works you know.

Somebody brought up a similar point at meeting on ADS-B integration with the Army. Basically his point was even stateside this could be a vulnerability. Basically this shows your hand. Like if say something like Panama was happening in the age of instant internet access and a potential country to be invaded could just watch air traffic way back in our national airspace system and suddenly see a whole metric butt load of C5s landing at Polk to pick up the guys due to jump into your country. Now instead of airborne shock and awe you're jumping into a defended and prepared site that expected you for the party.

Exactly. The guy is standing on a soap box of "we don't need this we don't do offensive ops with air power," but that's pretty obviously BS. He says he wants to funnel the money into refits and upgraded Navy ships but the party he is part of spent a decade not putting anything into their military the last time they were in power. Somehow it sounds like step 1 for their upgrade plan also supports changing their minds and being step 1 of more money for socialized whatever.

APX-123s are becoming the standard transponder on all US Army aircraft.... Part of the program with PM is to include ADS-B broadcast in the 123 by 2018. Receive may never happen in the current generation but at least one sided compliance is being viewed as the lube to go with telling the FAA to sit on it.

True, but the liberal Canadian party they just put in power wouldn't spend a dollar to upgrade their 30 year old Hornet fleet either so it's not F-35 being to expensive that's the problem for them.

I had an S6 that was a Bronie.... No kidding, he asked us to fly his dolls over Afghanistan. We figured they were for his daughters.... The horror....

No he's right, that should have been squad. Corrected for accuracy. Point still stands the Hawk was invented to do one job and haul occasional ass and trash when it wasn't doing that job. It wasn't made to two an anti mine sled like the 53D so the Navy had to come up with a way for it to do that job, which included ideas as crazy as bolting a 40 mm cannon to it. It wasn't made to go very far while carrying anything(seriously small tanks) but strap on ESSS and tanks or an IFR probe and a whole lot of crap and suddenly it can do the job of a 53G.... Like I said multi role or no role. Mission creep is a bitch, but it's here to stay when we can't afford multiple MWS's. Apaches are being used as essentially a crappy mileage ISR platform and relay system for TOC porn. That's a hell of an underutilization for a 35 million dollar gunship that is so so at the role.

All good points but the "Multirole or no role" writing has been on the wall for decades now. Hawg and the light grey Eagles are really the only guys who have survived the culling of that model to today. And the Eagle guys are really only gonna last as long as we keep that platform since Raptors can and now have done strike. Remember just 25 years ago we had an airplane whose sole job in life was SEAD, the Navy and Air Force both operated a tactical strike aircraft with no air to air capability (111/Intruder) and we had a fleet of light strike A7s who like you only really worried about ground attack. Institutional knowledge is outstanding, but if you can make SEAD a squadron mission and not an aircraft mission for assigned aviators like you have done in the AF with the Viper it's hard to make the argument you can't do that with CAS and still be successful. Same thing has happened in rotary wing. Ever since the 60 showed up there has been the effort to make what is the smallest size you can still call medium lift helicopter meant to be an assault/utility helicopter only based around an 11 man squad model, and make it do roles traditionally done by much larger much more capable airframes (CSAR, anti mine, sub hunting, etc). It was a Huey replacement... It turned into a Huey/H3/SH2/SH3 replacement.

But those issues are not exclusive to the F-35. The whole of development programs for the military over the last 25 years has been a game of political tie ins vs mission creep slowed development. Comanche, Armed Aerial Scout, the LCS, every one of those programs suffered as much or more than the 35 did from that problem. The only reason programs like the Super Hornet don't get the attention is they look like winners by comparison not because they were so well run. That doesn't have anything to do with what the jet can or will do operationally. Being built in 50 states or tied in with partner nations doesn't have anything with its ability to go against SA10/20 vs using our current aircraft. And that's my problem with these hatcheted articles that get broadcast on social media like chum for people who have no reference but want to demand cancellation of this program because it's the one in the spotlight.

Nobody DI except the fanboys on Facebook that think any mission against any ground target the A-10 beats all players because brrrrrrt. What I'm getting at is the combined population of F-35 critics, legacy airframe supporters, people who generally just hate military spending, etc.... They have all united about one thing, killing the F-35. Even today calls the cancel the whole program and walk away based off "cost savings." And as much as people want to show YouTube videos of the pentagon wars and bitch about the military industrial complex, the F-35 like the Bradley before it will be a successful weapons system conceived in a nightmare of bureaucracy. For those not directly familiar with it the Bradley turned into an absolute workhorse, and that movie makes a hell of a lot of flat put BS statements based off rumors or interpretations by non-SMEs/people with access.... Sounds kinda familiar doesn't it.

Yeah but you're missing the point. It's another headline to put on Facebook and give a million aviation experts a chance to comment on how the whole program is an abject failure and how we would be better off with A-10s doing deep interdiction into a peer threat IADS or flying 25 year old vipers for another 30 years into same.

Dude from my old unit tried swapping to a guard job at the 130 unit in the area and was pretty much told age waivers won't/can't happen under current policy/needs... If that has changed somebody please say so because I know about a half dozen Kiowa guys who won't get transitions but are to old to just apply for Green to Blue. Having more options than just helos would be a win for any of them about to start their job search.

This ridiculousness was all over the radio news segments near JBLM yesterday. Very much comes across as the individual demanding the system adapt to service their specific issue. It's the new rallying cry of the "oppressed" now that we have gotten pretty much past the same sex issue. Gotta give the hippies a new social reason to be upset with the DOD.

Don't forget, "If a reason is found it will be immediately called flawed and biased by that services secretary before proceeding ahead anyway."

Nobody is saying this is the end all be all but acting as if your model is the only way to run a program is not gonna move you anywhere but where you are now. Plus temper the experience working with TF Odin with the fact the Army has never done this mission. I'm sure if you guys started running an Assault Aviation Bn it would look like a sh!t show to the Army for years. Somebody could ask the 160th to critique working with CV-22s or HSC-85 and it would probably sound identical to your opinions on Odin. But here's my point on the out right dismissal of using non commissioned aviators or limited duty officers like Warrants.... How many times have people on here complained they were aviators second and just wanted the Air Force to let them be pilots. What if you could have that. What if you could literally never leave squadron level aviation until you were on top of or past 20 years? Would you always fly not like a Jr. Pilot no, but seriously no staff job somewhere at the pentagon, or a flunky joint job at the CAOC just staying in an aviation unit focused on the aviation mission and specializing in particular tasks (IP/Maintain/Safety/Tacops). The other big thing, what if you didn't need 4 years at the zoo to get here. That is how we get to keep people. This dismissal that it only works for the Army because there are no helicopter jobs. Well for one, there are even less UAS jobs available so where are all these highly qual'ed UAS guys gonna go. And that excuse really only passes muster if every pilot that punches out of the AF taking a job at United. Check people's LinkedIn profiles after they leave you, no way they are all pulling airliners despite way more opportunity for it. Think about the different flavor of suck you guys deal with and seriously ask yourself if you didn't have to deal with all that would you be punching at 12, because we can punch at 6 and we don't see the manpower drop off not even from the safety guys that can get OSHA jobs in a heart beat because the track gets them about every certification you could ever want. Also while limited, outside Helo contracting jobs pretty much start at 6 figures, so there is plenty of incentive to run to those when available.

Have you spent a day with an Army unit? Do you have any idea how miserable a non deployed unit with no mision equipment can be? You are literally the task bitch for everybody in your organization at that point. Are you going to argue quality of life of living at Ft Bliss deploying to Field Problems/NTC and doing road marches/ranges/PME in between vs being stuck at Cannon and working 12-14 hour days? When was the last time you put up a tent, or better yet burned sh!t. The Army is busy work with the occasional mission task stuck in for a break in the suck. Why would you deploy Air Force personnel as enlisted when they dont deploy to do the mission as officers. You seem to think its necessary to give the job to the Army in order to use enlisted. Im arguing that if you guys just accept that it does not take a 4 year degree in Journalism to fly an airplane you might be able to aquire personnel at a much lower cost. What difference would it make operationally for you and the guy next to you to come to work with E6 rank on instead of Cpt/Major. The historics are officers remain in fixed wing units in our service well past 20 on a regular basis all without much in the way of additional commands or achievements that can be achieved. You know what a CW5 with 20 years vs a CW5 with 30 is doing in a fixed wing unit? The same job just with more flight hours and respect. Do you seriously think these guys cant get hired? your talking about pilots with thousands of hours of total flight experience. Could have retired years ago, and still has a crappier qualifty of life than any comprable Air Force position (not to mention less pay). We opened up warrants from flight school assesion because fixed wing units were basically stealing high rank guys and we dont want to lose CW4/5 IP from a 64 to go fly C12s so he can enjoy the last years. Again maybe if you didnt create a culture where 60-90 guys are vieing for 1 command slot 20 years later they would be more willing to put up with the suck after year 8-12. If you knew when it was time to make a choice that there was say a 1 in 5 chance of owning a squadron vs a 1 in 30 would that change your mind to stick around? Thats what having a Warrant population allows us to do. No Im saying even if we were qualified on your particular versions and types of UAS platforms the idea would be thrown out because the Air Force historically views Warrants or enlisted operators as not real pilots. Look at what you do to warrants who go green - blue as far as flight school. Culturally you guys are unwilling for whatever reason to accept that there is another service with literally thousands of non commissioned officer pilots operating in it. It works because everybody in our service is not stuck on a single construct track of dipstick wingman day 1 pilot -> Flight Lead -> Squadron Commander and checking every box for that job on the way. We have 3 Commissioned officers in a company (equivilent to a flight).. and a dozen warrants. Those commissioned officers dont do jobs like IP or Maintenence they do command duties and staff assignments outside it. The Warrants form the functional cadre of making the unit work. Im an operations and survivability officer, and tomorrow Ill be one, and 4 years from now Ill be one. I dont have to try and check 40 boxes on my slow march to LtCol. I also dont need to try and worry about becoming an IP or a safety officer, because somebody else went into that track. Im also not gonna worry about spending 3 years on a joint assignment staff somewhere so I can get my next command oppertunity. Liquid posted exactly opposite this in another thread. Its only not up for consideration because you guys are stuck on the idea that everybody needs to be a leader, everybody wants to be a squadron commander, and everybody must be a commissioned officer to achieve that goal.

No kidding, but we don't have assets to replace you on the line. Remember you fought tooth and nail for this mission and the money to go with it. It's only after a decade of getting tired of being yelled at by another service you let us play. We have the opposite problem because we are swimming in personnel with no equipment. If it wasn't for the fact our systems are different and more importantly the Air Force doesn't want to view warrants as real pilots much less enlisted operators we could IA task to back fill your needs.

Well the bright side... At least we can get some real time combat SIGINT on them for once instead of the other way around...