hindsight2020

FWIW not every ROTC kid is on a scholarship.

Based on the responder's comments, it seems the justification behind taking away incentive pay stems from the idea that there are people on the outside lining up to perform these specialty AFSC/MOS. The problem with that logic is that the main complaint on the part of the members already in is their inability to be allowed to perform said duty as a preponderance of their time in the service. Put another way, *gasp* ....the AF sucks the fun out of it. So you need money to keep experience, in order to gain the discretion to mismanage said experience. Epic. Here's an alternate scenario. How 'bout let people do their job til they're blue in the face and not fuck with them when they're at home. Nah, that would just be too fucking Burger King for the likes of senior leadership. Ah fuck it. Do something til it stops making sense to you and your family, or you get fired. Works for me. Y'all already did more than 99% of the pedestrians out there. /choirpreach

Vocational frustration as a result of a mission of admitted "perennial political posturing" burning people out? QOL detractors related to an intolerable location not only having marked historic retention problems but also a documented tendency to literally make you punch your wife more often than your peers in Florida? Um....Is senior AF leadership fucking new? The only thing that raises an eyebrow for me is that they needed to pay RAND to find this out. Whynot Minot... You could poll the entire Buff community in the Spring of 2008 and find similar tone and sources of causation for the god damn Trail of tears the community was [and is]. True story: academic instructor stands up on day one of academics and the first thing he asks the room was : "raise your hand if you put this assignment as your first choice out of UPT...". I almost started a golf clap, I couldn't believe someone went there on the first fucking day of school. UFB....(and yes, no one raised their hand.) They [leadership] want to keep dismissing the moronically obvious rational incentives that drive human behavior? Well, they'll keep getting what they pay for. Shit I ought to apply to RAND, that looks like an easy way to make six figures spouting what the base gate A1C could have told you for free....

Right, because Guard babies are the reason AD Lite has become it's own cancer....

What a bunch of cocksuckers eh? This is the shit why I'm so glad I never went Active Duty. I've seen it done to my AD peers, and I know I wouldn't have lasted 6-9 years in RegAF. All those bullshit non-AFSC REMF-laden deployments would have cured me from serving. And just like in your experience, I've seen it happen on the AETC side, which was supposed to be the spool-down make-bang-bang with the wife/girlfriend time for these folks. Now it's the god damn 'transpo pool' for miscellaneous 179s to nowhere. Fuck that. I tell those guys all the time, for the opportunity cost of losing 15 years (on average) of an annuity payout, you can skip over to the reserves and/or civil service and recoup the time served benefit at 60, and gain an incredible improvement in quality of life while focusing on the motivation that made you join in the first place: FLY. Anytime I'm feeling scoffed by AD-Lite shenanigans in the AFRC I mosey over to this thread and fast-cage back to wings level.

I know. It would be epic. "So Captain, stand up and tell us about yourself...." LOL

That architectural identity crisis has always been a defining part of the Air Force. The problem is as you suggest, the peacetime leadership's misguided attempt at providing the shoe a sense of belonging by chastising the trigger puller. In a true peer fight the shoe gets told to stfu. But this decade isn't gonna be it. As such it's the decade for corporate managers with an underlying testosterone deficiency to rule for a while. Remember the rule of life: it's all timing and luck in this life. There is no justice. Ill keep flying until they sideline me or fire me. Then ill go so something else. Fuck em.

Speak for yourself. I want the govt promise thank you very much. If I wanted a diluted retirement that I can't self fund after cost of living, I'd work for the airlines with a lot less bullshit. Look, I know what you're saying. You want partial vesting because the proposition of staying to 20 is as secure as a baby fart during tornado season. But anybody who thinks you can get a 50 pct retirement in 30 years by doing a hands off contribution to some Miley mouse 401k on what they pay you these days is smoking glue. They'll never pay me wages to account for self funding, so fuck that concession. Now, you give me a B fund where the employer is te one who makes the contributions as a percentage of my pay grade, then hell yeah knock yourself out. But you're not touching my paycheck, otherwise that's a huge paycut and fuck I can do that at Olive Garden all by myself. Besides. The proposition of recouping my active duty points on the civil service is not beneath me. I'd lick stamps with a smile at the post office for 5 years and get the whole god damn thing back. Never mind I can double dip at 60 on the reserve side. Where there's a will there's a way. Fuck 401ks

Fuck, we're there. I'm already off base, off duty, off uniform, SOP. Nothing good ever comes out of sponsoring host wing functions or socializing of any kind on base, which my family already boycotts by default.. See how that unintended consequences bit works? Just doing my 9-5 jerb, boss..... Drinking or socializing inside the fence, are y'all fucking new? LOL Now let's all sing the NEW Air Force Song everybody! Sure got a catchy tune to it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-gqMpZroy8 Workin' 9 to 5 What a way to a livin' Barely gettin' by it's all takin' and no givin'...............

So what's your point?

Don't sweat the 3 to 1 business. Nobody's keeping track of that ch$t...besides, most everybody goes to 20 good years. It's a no-brainer for a TR with airline aspirations. If it gets too painful there's always a better location you can roll over to in order to make the min run palatable. Best part-time job in the world, if money's not an object.

Community dependent. As a generality? Perhaps a bit naive, yes.

Yep, bullshit Q-3s. Another reason this job's in the toilet. Do the fighter guys mutilate their their young's FEF like this too, or is this a heavy thing?

Ouch bra'..kick a man when he's down.... :D

Hell, I feel like an expat already, working and living in Del Rio.....Can't wait for the chance to move back home to bona fide America.

You're not looking at it from an economics and rational incentives perspective. It's dirt simple actually. As to count 1? Cannon. As to count 2? Navs. And strike two on ACC. It's not at ACC; it's at AFGSC that the big refugee camp takes place. If you need the rational incentives flowchart for those two counts explained, you're thinking too hard.

This goddamn job has turned into such a bait-n-switch. Timing and luck.. you nemesis of mine! This is what happens when you base your vocational aspirations on information off fuckin' 1980s military-themed movies....I shoulda been a dentist. fvck.

I'd be pissed too if I woke up at 0400 and realized I lived in Clovis NM..... [/stripot]

I can tell you why I don't think maxiflex or 4x10s will work and why this thing is such a hung start. But you'll have to PM me. I don't want to let that cat out open source. The Crown's jackals probably lurk on here...

Check PMs.

Goes to show how shitty the morale is in AD, when people consider shaving a piddly 10 months off an ADSC or taking an ART job in DelAltuclovgordumbus as #winning. Meanwhile the dopes in DC still say they got this under control. I'm not an airline wave fanboy, but I can't wait for the airlines to up the hiring by a mere RCH and just watch the wheels on the Blue bus come off the axle. It's gonna be like those movies where the armored car explodes and money rains from the sky and people run around re-enacting the fall of Saigon. Money and carte blánche assignments for all my friends. #winning

Yep. And Laughlin as well.

If I was faced with that PCS and I had kids of school age, I'd be putting the family in Lubbock and geobash that assignment until the next PCS/expiration of ADSC, whichever came first. No reason your family's well-being has to suffer just because the DOD is in the business of propping up the local economies of the lazy and unambitious.

I believe it. Bad enough when you're gone all year, but at least the wife (job/amenities) and kid (school) are provided for in desirable and populated Florida. But, gone all year AND the family has to do without happiness or prosperity in Clovis,NM? Fat chance, Bonus Bob. The AF really fucked AFSOC mission readiness with the Cannon quagmire...

No love for the BUFF playa'? They got just as many rejects er aspiring fighter pilots. :D