hindsight2020

I would consider it as a post retirement thing if it wasn't for the requirement to do 20 physical LE years in order to retain the 1.7% multiplier. That's a big sting right there, the fact that they don't honor it outright is a non-starter for me. One of the more critical reasons they had to wave the white flag in the AFRC side and start retrofitting back to AGRs after the unholy mess of a whipsaw we endured with the "ART conversion" fiasco of 2010-2015, was OPM's unwillingness to address that ghastly FERS 1% multiplier (don't get me started on the post 2014 4.4% annual fee for new hires). It was simply non-competitive compared to straight GS LEO civil servants like CBP, let alone the direct competitor, the AGR peer demographic (yours truly). Even the ART -2181 SSR table can't compete @ 1% multiplier, versus the straight GS lower salary @ 1.7% multiplier. Of course, in reality the biggest thing that caused lack of traction in the AFRC situation was the inability of people to mil-drop/USERRA the airline gig into an ART. But that's title-V for ya, nothing can be done about that. I looked at it for a nanosecond as a potential gig to get me home to PR post-military, but the tax situation as a federal employee in PR is a complete disaster. For those who don't know, that's 33% above 61K, with no deductions, no exemptions and no discounted tables for married vs single. In other words, PR residency incurs an income tax liability greater than almost all (federal+state) tax situations in the CONUS. It's not as bad up until 61K, but every dollar above that it goes off the charts quick. I did the math on my current income, assuming all taxable for argument sake (since normally mil has a lot of unreported gross via BAH), and I came up with 241% personal income tax of what I pay as a Texas resident (federal + 0 state). And then I read OPM pays PR at the "rest of US" locality rate. Fog that. I can't afford that kind of sunshine tax, so I'll have to figure out other ways of managing the aging parents angle going forward. For the little time I would have left until age 57 (11 years in my case post AD retire), neither the airline nor civil service (@ 1% FERS and joke 4.4% vesting fee) would be an earth-shattering solution. My point is that a 1.7% multiplier would sweeten the pot vice the airline, since NB FO pay and a B-fund wouldn't be as robust for such short duration employment. Alas, OPM doesn't look like they're willing to deal, if my interactions with that office regarding the ART fiasco in the ARC is any indication. Just a n=1 data point to consider from someone who would be in the target demographic but sidesteps as a result of all the aforementioned. Maybe they can look at these issues and find more interested candidates, if willing to address it. Good luck to all. Lord knows I don't know what I want to do when I "grow up". lol

I was under the impression that not all airlines run their sim jobs by plucking from their active line pilot list, plenty subcontracting and non-line-pilot employees abound in these jobs. Which is another way of saying: not all airline sim jobs are paid as well as those done by seniority list pilots (aka United). I know United sim jobs are done by listed pilots, but I thought DL/AA/SW didn't? I know FDX sim guys are are not line pilots nor paid anywhere near what their pilots do. The schedules are homesteading for sure, but plenty of 2am box times abound these days, so schedules are not exactly cake. At any rate, not disagreeing, but not all airline sim jobs are as lucrative as the United guys for instance. I suppose for those in the know, would you mind listing which airlines use their line pilots and which doesn't? Because the pay gap is significant between these jobs, at times as much a difference as the gap between what FFD and mainline pilots get paid. And to be pedantic, if you gotta get hired as a pilot to apply for a sim job, technically you did go to the airlines, so it doesn't exactly go with the spirit of the thread, I digress.

yup, if you can stomach the location. Big non-starter for many of these gigs. Same deal with the federal flying positions currently available out there. Location is a big sticking point for most. if not a limfac then I would agree, certainly an option that meets the hours and homesteading criteria of the OP.

Not generally available as a full time position, day rates are not that competitive (compared to some of the nicer part91/91k equipment), and not a true homesteading gig either. But sure, it is an option post-retirement just as any of the ones offered on this thread already. The thing for me is that, AD retirement is not enough take home to really rely on "gig" work in order to make it to the finish line of retirement income replacement of 75% of an O-5 take home in peak earning years. You need another supra-six-figure career destination with retirement vehicles to match, in order to truly replace that purchasing power. Mil retirement is truly a lot smaller than is marketed.

I've owned an airplane or another since 2009 (gone through 3 so far). The boredom of flying the Buff was actually what precipitated my decision to join the ranks of aircraft ownership. It would have happened anyways, but Lord knows that assignment really pushed me to biting the bullet. It has been a great lifestyle for my family, and I feel grateful I get to share my passion with a family that enjoys the travel benefits of said hobby. It's not cheap, but because it is a lifestyle and not merely another random hobby, we make it a priority over say ostentatious housing, like many who bemoan their inability to afford it whilst living in their suburban 4/10th of a million dollar gold-plated prisons. Life's a choice. As to professional flying, my interest was always very narrow in scope. I became interested in pro flying only in order to fly tac airplanes. Though I didn't get to fly the fighter I wanted, I managed to find a substitute I could enjoy (tac trainers). I'm very happy with it. Crew/heavy flying was never a motivator of mine when choosing to become a pilot. Had tac mil flying not been accessible to me, I would have exit stage and kept my flying strictly recreational. I sincerely enjoy recreational piston flying over heavy turbine flying, which is why airline flying is very low in my radar scope, hiring wave be damned. BL, professional flying has NOT been a detractor from being able to engage in and enjoy recreational piston flying for me. If anything, it has made it cheaper, as I keep much of my currencies from the day job along with the medical currency, which keeps my wallet free to pursue the kind of recreational flying expenditures I want to enjoy with the family. I fully see myself and my wife incorporating the recreational flying lifestyle into our empty nest and retirement chapters in a couple decades; hopefully airpark living long term. To be clear, I would do this regardless of whether I had become a pro pilot or not. Flying for a living is incidental to my passion for flying, not the other way around. To each their own.

The default is the old system. It requires action on your part to enroll in the new system. I'm in the hybrid group where the option is offered, I of course will be defaulting to remain in the old system. They can shove thier 401k and 1% b fund up their ass. If I wanted to gamble with a defined contribution retirement, there's plenty of airlines hiring at 15% b-fund for a lot less social engineering and ucmj anachronism to endure. I digress. Fuck, there goes my New year's resolution to keep calm about military employment. That's not true, I blew my top off at work two weeks into January, but I'm trying guys. Lol.

Regional life better than Guard/Res? Well damn.. I've been remiss. Thanks for that gouge brother, lemme go ahead an curtail my career AGR post haste! ...Motherf----er please.

I work with the guy in question. Well maybe. The dude I work with was a DL newhire, but high time fighter/trainer guy, no prior airline. As such, didn't have the 121 hours to hold 88A in NYC, even though his seniority could hold it. No biggie, he's dropping 3 year recall to AD in order to get his O-5 TIG. AFRC wouldn't give him a way into an O-5 flying billet, due to Blue falcons sitting on the pot too long and timing older people like him out. He said nah, not going down like that, so back to regAF he goes for 3 years to collect. ROTC, pretty sweet gig. So, O-5 retirement check and back to DL with added seniority/pay. People have options these days. Def a buyer's market for those who are getting calls.

I remember when I was going to PIT (the second time...ugh) while this jointness thing was going on, and the Randolph dependas were all up in arms because the consolidation of the San Antonio area MPF functions into RAFB got things a bit, too "colorful" for their tastes. In their defense, my craptastic sack-o-shit AFRC host functionals shoved my second class AGR citizen ass to the AD section to get some mickey mouse BAH re-certification bvllshit form. When I went in there there was a no-shit retired ARMY vet screaming at some AF E-3 at the top of his lungs while she checked her screen (probably on AF messenger talking to her O-3 sugar daddy). SFS had to get called in. It was "ARMY strong" in there for sure. Don't shoot the messenger LOL.

Sounds like the former. Aging aircraft develop issues, we may be reaching that threshold with the 45 OBOGS. Also, mx practices play a factor as well. I'm not privy to the Navy mx cadre at Meridian/Kingsville, but lemme tell you, the boo boo that happened at DLF a couple years back with the T-6 ejection seat mx had the make-work crowd scrambling to their civil service safe spaces. I suppose it's slightly easier to recruit maintainers when you're that close to Corpus, can't speak to Meridian. This isn't oil work, the pay delta incentive for the hardship of low QOL is not that great. The Dod legitimately struggles to keep highly qualified mx at many training bases, and gamble with our lives as operators. It's not personal to the DOD, but it certainly is a personal affront to my family. Life ain't fair and all that jazz. And they wonder why people are bailing. Add another penny to that cripple children jar...

Nah, don't feel that way. If the Guard/Reserve didn't give you a conduit to get wings before you got too old, then no harm no foul in taking the devil's path. You gotta do what you gotta do. You'll have to do your time in AD, but you're getting in in a time of unprecedented upt fighter slots, compared to 10 years ago, if that is your thing. When I went through it was coal in everybody's socks. That said, recognize that in time you'll grow to experience many of the dynamics people are leaving for. As long as you're open minded about the idea that priorities change with life, you won't be caught surprised by any of this.

Nah, my money he's a shoe. Doesn't take a pilot to get the pilot lingo. Look at scoobs for fvck's sake, impersonating a Guard/Res pilot since what, 2004?

You said it yourself already, the problem with "AGR$ for all my brothers" is that it turns the place into Active Duty proper AND absolutely places scarlet letter on airline-aspiring Reservists that haven't been hired already. The airlines do notice the uptick in long tour mil drop and throttle their hiring of said demographic accordingly. Delta has been known to have already behaved in such a way last year. Hell, it's getting to the point there are people on the other board asking about the feasibility of using the god-damned sabbatical program to try and snag a mainline number, come back to regAF for like 7 years (since there would be an ADSC in excess of 5 years associated with that program), get an AD retirement, and have it all employment protected. I don't think it's gonna work, but if it does then watch out, that first asshole is gonna ruin it for everybody else behind him. It does beg the question, if the airline job is so great, why the fvck do people long tour MLOA the shit out of it all the time? Don't answer that, I'm being rhetorical; just a little pot stirring for the a-word crowd that like to speak out of both sides of their mouth on said topic. :) All to do about nothing of course. There's no shortage of AGRs in desirable locations. It's a tight little club too, they got their inheritance line to those jobs out 2-3 iterations out, so that's 12 years worth of tom dick and harrys gerrymandering the honey pot. Most of the leftover revolving flying openings require living in DOD-standard, make-work, pork barrel economy shitholes, at the expense of your family's QOL. So in the aggregate it's not as effective of a solution as chronically-fatigued/burnout regAF folks naturally feel it would be, especially for the majority that wishes to stop living in Minot/Altus/Cannon/Laughlin/et al and raise their kids somewhere dignified. Something the AF could try, that AFRC would jump on in a NY second, is to make the ART job (title V), a title X mil equivalent for USERRA purposes. ART crisis averted overnight. People would take that paycut in a heartbeat, since what they're really doing is hiding from their shitty schedules/commutes as junior guys. Further antagonizes their civilian coworkers at the airline for sure, but the game is chess. But since it's not legally possible to take MLOA for a civilian job, which the ART is considered to be, then the openings remain unfilled and ARPC is forced to consider AGRs. Problem is that AFRC simply does not have the political capital to ask for such a thing. AFRC is ART centric for money reasons, you can't just flip the manning system wide to be majority AGR. That will never happen, wish in one hand shit on the other type of thing..

He's basically insinuating that as the paycut for dropping an airline trip for a string of days at the ARC unit gets bigger and bigger (sts), you'll quickly lose the motivation to travel and be gone from your own bed for a paycut. Your family may also put additional pressure on that sentiment. The reality is that it all depends. Just looking at the world from a payrate POV is a post-Lost-Decade perspective. Myopic imo, but to each their own. Essentially, there are non-economic reasons and/or "soft benefits" reasons for which people continue to serve in the ARC and may continue to selectively take a paycut. Scheduling is a big one. Everybody swears schedules are sweet in the land of airline movement, but the reality is that I have plenty of co-workers at the airlines in year 2-3 who still cannot hold their desired domicile, so they're commuting to the airline anyways. For most in my unit, that means a double job commute, since nobody lives in our remote as fvck commuter unit (our "wing" will never publicly recognize us as such of course; I don't think our NAF could point us on a map if their lives depended on it, those well to do Atlanta-dwelling suburbanite fvcks... and I digress). So people use the ARC membership to manage trip quality control, especially when facing non-commutable pairings. Others stick around for the healthcare. Then there's those who still are having fun with the type of flying (tactical jets, aerobatics) and the airline thing bores them. Many non-economic elements that keep people involved. So it's a bit simpleton to suggest people summarily quit and leave a 20 year ARC retirement (with probably 10-15 years of AD points no less) on the table because they take a paycut in year 3.

FCIF about 18 months ago reminding folks that at least at the UPT level, EFBs are a no-go. I don't know about the A models in companion trainer programs and ADAIR folks.

Yeah but in here, I can get you cigarettes. On the outside, I'm some washed up G-suit wearing has been. :D Life is simpler in Shawshank, never mind we men may find ourselves a bit, 'institutionalized'..

Yeah buddy. Sarcasm aside, communities can't complain about perception if their ambassadors suck. Can't blame the kids for that.

Fvck, you gotta love the interwebz. Shit's truly forever isn't it...

Oh no, they care, Gallup just asked the wrong people. Ask multi-national Corps only, how they rate Congress. That chart could be pivoted upwards around the 50 percentile line and traced. Done, approval rating in the 90s. BL, It's big fucking club...and YOU A'INT in it. The other poster is right. The only metric of leverage you have in this world is your feet. The rest is just spinning your wheels. As the movie the Gambler posited, the key is to reach the position of fuck you. Get there, and wanking about some chump change 20K post tax won't seem like that important a topic in the big scheme of things. Lord knows that shit wouldn't get me out of bed, let alone stay in a position where I couldn't say fuck you on command. That's the biggest thing I value as a career AFRC guy, over anything Big blue has dished at me since 2005. See my avatar. This mother can shut down and imma be alright, baby's paid for.

Sounds like a great mission for an AFRC takeover. Bankers hours plus flight time sounds great for us quitter types that no longer have pretenses about our so-called career claim to fame. :D

You guys are missing the point. Nobody is gonna take a paycut to live in DLF. You want those lifers in the sim building to run the flightline? Half can't pass a medical. But you go right ahead. Look, you're not gonna get any takers to come down here to District 12. You're gonna have to incentivize the $$$ in ways that make civilians a non-starter. Once you hit AGR levels of equivalent hard/soft compensation, it's not worth it to the DOD to pay a civilian that. This isn't new. They already tried to make us all ARTs down here. Didn't go anywhere. And I mean nowhere, dead in the water full stop. It was amazing to see how they even had to carve us out DLFers from the conversion. Never seen management have to be so transparent about a concession in my 12 years in this gig. You guys know the muckity mucks are going back to an ART-to-AGR retrofit with tail between their legs right now, right? 55% system-wide manning on the ART side alone. They can't staff it in GOOD locations, let alone the UPT shitholes. This whole thread is moot already. And you guys think the P-cola model of having non-ART/straight-GS GS-12 flying T-1s is gonna get traction in UPT shitholes? LOL Hell, there was a huge exodus in P-cola precisely because they wouldn't give those guys GS-13 with the SSR, only the most hardcore "live in FL over anything" townies remained. And moving UPT on a piecemeal basis to good locations in order to normalize for the inability to pay civilians AGR money and benefits? ROFL. Your god-damned chief of staff is actively lobbying for the regional industry just so he doesn't have to address servicemember non-monetary QOL drivers, and you guys think the DOD is gonna have the impetus to make basing changes? Holy shit you guys are hitting the Petrovskaya a bit hard and early on this one. Good AFSO-21 topic though. Good luck.

Semantics, but doing the T-6 NAV block as out n back was always an option in the syllabus. So nothing has been "taken out". It's just some decision the muckity mucks made to save a nickel and spend a pound (and piss off mx in the process, as their overtime gravy train was the weekend XC). Ah big blue, a-word hiring like gangbusters and they're still pissing off the rank and file. LOL Holy cognitive dissonance batman. Stand by for decision reversal....

nm.....

FY 2000 or thereabouts, Toners could drop a bomber. Then it went away. It's not earth shattering change by any means. The ethnocentrism of the Air Force track system is retarded anyways. We're now prepping for T-38 instructors to come from T-1 tracked MWS guys who've never flown the thing. Of course, PIT is such a high-ROI water-into-wine making outfit, they'll have zero problem cranking out quality.... As to expectations, manning is falling apart but it sure is a great time to be a T-38 student. It's like an episode of the Oprah Show. YOU get a fighter, YOU get a fighter! LOL There's some real shitbags being pushed who would have never made the cut back in mid 00s, and we've tried documenting away and trying to bring solid candidates for the B-courses, but in this environment it's about impossible to wash someone out of UPT/IFF. In time, this too will change again. It matters none, timing and luck has always been the driver, et al. I sleep with a clear conscience, let the B-course IPs sort through the guano. Not on me brotato chips. --BREAK BREAK-- On the AFRC front, the last email I got was the ART-to-AGR retro-conversion plan that's being thrown around, as they grapple and panic on an 5-year on going 55% ART manning rate, after the whole six years of pushing the ART conversion on everyone during FY11 when the airlines were merely hinting at opening the floodgates. Ah vindication sure is sweet. Fuck em. Let them eat cake for 15 years of non-choices and garbage treatment of their operators. It is an absolutely great time to align fuselages into whichever status you want to be in long term. Make no mistake, just like the airline hiring, once it stops, and it WILL stop, the hiring will also freeze in the military side and whatever chair you have at that time is the chair you'll have to like for quite a while. The only way they can change the ART dynamics for the better is to allow that job to be considered USERRA-eligible based on the part B. That way airline aspirants can mil leave into an ART. But since it's being driven by the part A (civilian), no dice. Same thing for the AD recall volunteer call. You give the guy a flying club gig for 3 years and all these junior guys will jump at it. Pilot shortage fixed overnight. But big blue ain't interested in giving out good deals. So they'll sit on it and keep sucking. Oh well, suit yourself. P.S. One gratuitous pot shot observation of the airline gig. You know, for the greatest job in the world, people sure spend a lot of time hiding from it in the military. Any job is great when you're the senior guy. I judge a job's worth by how the middle guy does. From my vantage point, the middle guy at the airlines does ok, and I'm certainly not making a plug for an AD-on-the-cheap ART job, just keeping it balanced. I was a trougher in the mid 00s, I know what the airline job looks like on the back end of the waves. No free lunch fellas. Everybody walk with the Mk 1s uncaged and tracking now. No excuse in the age of the internet.