brickhistory

"Ah, Mr. USA, the People's Republic of China has decided that we want full possession and political domination of that little island you call Taiwan. "Umm, without meaning to cause offense, we fully expect you to stand by and do nothing while we play through. "Oh, and those specks called the Spratleys? Yeah, we're taking those too... "Really?! You object? Well, that's nice, but if that's how you feel, we'll need to call in our loans. Yeah, all of them. Now, please." That is a very realistic scenario and besides the military realignment in the region, no other "ally" in the world would stick with us. You'd see dust from the stampede to buddy up to the new boss man. We'd be (are becoming) the Britain of the 21st century. To the British baseop'ers, that's not meant as a slam. Technology just speeds up the political merry-go-round. Rome was king for what, 1,000 years? Spain for 3-400? Britain for 200? The US for 50-75? China is probably due...

discus, I hope your old man is still around. If so, please pass on my utmost respects to him. If not, for his service in that place. Not voluntary, I'm sure, but damned tough. How long? Apologies for the thread hijack...

amwaldo, that is essentially what I did. After escaping SAC ICBMs, I went to a FACP (manual system, pre-MCE/CRC), controlled a lot. Then went to E-3s at RODN. Still controlled a fair amount as compared to KTIK guys (not a slam on Tinker guys per se. If you don't get the practice, you don't get the practice), then to E-8s. We do a disservice to the young guys by not getting them all the missions they can get as a 'controller' before becoming an Air Battle "Manager." Even then starting as a young captain, I was behind the guys who started as 2Lts and had controlled many more missions than I had prior to becoming an SD. I think I was competent, but not great. There were (still are, I'm sure) some really good controllers. There were (probably still are) some complete morons as well. There is nothing like experience to build SA and capability. Thank God all the 'customers' have it from day one and never screw the pooch. Oh wait, they aren't on center stage for everybody, everywhere to listen to them, so their buffoonery, usually, is in front of a smaller venue. And have perfect SA on every player, everywhere, at all times. (Note: sarcasm switch to "on.") But, for krab's question, I'd work the phones and talk to folks doing the mission.

krabs, Learn the system, listen to those who have the experience (on both sides of the scope), study your ass off on your particular systems capes/lims, good guy aircraft/weapons/tactics and bad guy aircraft/weapons/tactics, and don't be a tool; i.e., do your job the best that you can. Ignore the tools that have nothing constructive to offer when providing a debrief, listen intently to those that do. Understand what you can and cannot do or offer with the system being employed. Offer something constructive during a brief or debrief if you have it, otherwise STFU. Never miss an opportunity to not make a SA-draining radio call, but don't hesitate to make the one that will get someone's eyes (Mk I or electronic) onto the threat. Make that call with the fewest words possible. Contact E-3, E-8, and ground, both mobile and not, units and talk to the younger Lts and a couple of field graders. Good book is "AWACS and Hawkeyes" by Edwin Armistead. He was an USN E-2 NFO, don't know if he's still on active duty or retired. Dated, but still interesting: https://www.pinetreeline.org/ Some of the history of where ABMs started is in some good WWII books; check out stuff on the Battle of Britain, night fighters, GCI development. A couple of good books for those include "Night Fighter" by C.F. Rawnsley and Robert Wright, and "Radar: A Wartime Miracle," forgot the author. There are numerous others. edited to add: sorry about the pilot DQ thing. Sucks...

A little different spin: having a secondary AFSC on my SURF scored me the foot in the door for an AFRC AGR billet. They didn't look at OPRs, etc until after I made the initial cut. Depending on what your goals are, the secondary AFSC is not a bad thing. 16G will identify you as an experienced staff weenie. Careful what you wish for...

This was/is a red flag to the press. Being told 'no' is an insult to their 'integrity.' They want to 'cover' the story but actually use the fallen as their prop for an editorial slant. I'd put money on it. Nothing sells paper like the picture of a dead GI or his/her coffin. But a cartoon of a dead chimp is right out... If a family wants to publicize their loss, that is their right. They should do it at whatever venue they choose for their personal use. Asking a family to make such a decision in the midst of receiving such news is a bit much.

"2" on Rampant Raider.

STFU, It would someone be like you that CH's original drunken post is directed. He knows you exhibit all the sharpness of a marble, yet he wants to help you in your professional development because he believed in trying to develop those traits in those under his command. How many times have you seen that before? You see not all leadership is grown in the "Me" laboratory. Most is, granted, but not all. I predict at least a wing commandership in your future, if not a MAJCOM. Ever had the callsign "Doc?"

Quizmo is the F-111 driver in my Weasel story thread. https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index...showtopic=11369

Thanks.

Been a long time since I read the book. Did Bowden say that or quote someone else saying it? Not arguing, seeking clarification.

Good article, good author. Bowden gets it right in my opinion - "Killing Pable," "Black Hawk Down," et al. Awesome photo. Should be a briefing room standard viz-aid.

Artist rendition of Jill Metzger in her captivity...

Tonight, on "Monster Quest...."

If you get in, you must post what is known about Jill Metzger here. (kidding, as it is probably classified, but I'm just sayin'...)

Great job (sts) by the Navy captain. I would like to have heard the conversation between the real CWO and his wife as well as the comments from the other CWOs on base to this guy.

I agree except for the coup. I think there would be a polite mutiny ("Sir, thank you for your interest in national defence, but....") until he was impeached and removed from office by the Congress.

E-3s or E-8s. Besides mission by committee, you can hang out with 20-30 of the coolest ABMs like I used to be for the entire deployment!

Spin this a little. How many of you serving with kids, mortgages, bills, would take such an oath? The German officer corps was pretty professional, it does make you wonder...

Didn't even have to get to the snopes post. Such obvious BS as to be beneath us. Even He wouldn't do this nor would either the Supreme Court let him or the Congress. They would impeach him. I hope and believe the military would refuse such a thing were it ever to be promulgated by any White House resident.

positevq, I'm not questioning your loyalty or attempting anything negative. I just thought that dual-citizenship for a commissioned US officer was a no-no. I see from some replies that might not be the case. I'd like to know in writing if it were me. Good luck you.

My reply dealt more with the commissioned part not the security holding part. Can you be commissioned as a US military officer holding dual citizenship?

Old School *Obviously, written/published some years back Around the World Eighty Years Ago* The U.S. Army Air Service’s 1924 epic flight Some things never change. Many tourists have experienced a snooty French waiter looking down his nose at them. Eighty years ago, a tired group of Americans faced the same situation. Seems that at this particular French sidewalk café, steaming in the heat and humidity of Saigon, a waiter refused to serve the Americans because they were not wearing dinner jackets! Never mind the fact that these Americans were in the midst of an epic adventure - trying to be the first to circumnavigate the world by air and couldn’t afford to carry along non-essential items such as formal wear - this restaurant had standards and “Messrs would have to leave.” This is just one amusing anecdote from the incredible journey undertaken in 1924 by eight US Army Air Service pilots. Along the way, they battled incredible odds, untested equipment, diplomatic snafus, mechanical failures, and social exhaustion. Despite the hurdles, they made history. In 1924, the US Army Air Service was in danger of becoming extinct with fewer than 1,000 pilots and less than half that number of obsolescent aircraft. One method encouraged by the Air Service leadership to stave off extinction was to win various aviation contests and the attendant headlines. Congress could be counted on to fund things popular with the public. Garnering publicity by setting speed and altitude records or winning air races kept the Air Service popular, but not enough to keep it growing. As war-era planes atritted through crashes or simply wearing out, Congress was not buying enough to keep pace with the losses. Major General Mason Patrick, Air Service boss, had been studying the chances of making an around the world flight as far back as 1922. He thought that a successful mission would get enough attention from America’s people that Congress would be forced into providing more money. Eventually Major Fred Martin led pilots Lieutenants Lowell Smith, Leigh Wade and Erik Nelson in this mission. Each pilot was allowed to select his own mechanic so Technical. Sergeant Arthur Turner, Staff Sgts. Alva Harvey, Henry Ogden, and one officer with a mechanical background, Lt John Harding found themselves in the rear cockpit of the flight’s chosen mounts: the Douglas World Cruiser (DWC). The DWC was an adaptation of an existing Navy design, the DT-2, powered by a 425 hp 12 cylinder liquid-cooled Liberty engine. Those engines would be a great source of aggravation and effort to the crews during the flight. The DWC won the competition use due to its great structural strength and ability to operate as both a wheeled land plane and by swapping wheels for pontoons, as a seaplane. The crews began the flight from Seattle, Washington. Prior to starting, however, Gen Patrick knew that the press would write more interesting stories if the planes had names rather than simply listed as “No. 1, 2, 3, or 4.” He gave the men leeway to name each aircraft after a U.S. city, as long as the names covered the breadth of America. Seattle (1), Chicago (2), Boston (3), and New Orleans (4) hit all the compass points. Just prior to that take-off, mechanic Turner removed himself from the flight due to illness. Lt Smith chose alternate pilot Lt Leslie Arnold to take Turner’s place. Arnold would say, “No man was ever more astonished than I when I found I was going along.” On April 5, 1924, the adventure began. Lt Arnold wrote in his notebook of the flight, “As I look down on Lake Washington and Seattle…I wonder how many of us will get all the way around….. Visibility is only fair this morning, but above the haze that half veils the earth the summit of Ranier stands out as clear as crystal. No wonder the Indians call it Iahuna, the mountain that is God. I saw Lowell glance back over his shoulder at it several times and I’m sure the memory of its grandeur will inspire us all the way around the world. This undertaking somehow makes you feel the presence of the Ruler of the Universe as you have never felt it before.” Airborne for nearly seven hours each flying day, the crews cruised at just over 72 mph. Seven hours of handling a large aircraft with no autopilot, sitting only feet behind the unmuffled V-12 Liberty engine and wind noise, all the while having their faces either stung and frozen when flying in Arctic conditions or stung and baked in the jungles and deserts of Asia. It is little wonder that the early generation of aviators were universally hard of hearing after a career spent flying. On April 30th, Major Martin and his backseater Sergeant Harvey crashed while trying to cross an Alaskan mountain range. Separated by lousy visibility, the other crews didn’t see the mishap and continued on to that day’s goal. Martin and Smith survived the crash and, after many days, hiked to rescue. After flying all day, the beat up crews were usually reliant on themselves to maintain their aircraft. At each stop, they performed “general inspection, routine work, and servicing.” This was their way of saying that after landing, no matter what the weather or field (or water) conditions, the crews inspected all wires, fittings and visible parts, flushed gasoline line strainers, oiled thrust bearings and valve stems, wiped clean the fuselages and cowlings, replenished oil and gas tanks, topped off the radiator, and when in floatplane mode, removed the port hole covers and inspected the pontoons morning and night. “Routine” maintenance indeed! At several scheduled and unscheduled stops, the DWCs required major repairs. 22 of the cantankerous Liberty engines were eventually changed. Other than tedious, this was no big deal at a proper facility. However, an engine change in the Aleutians meant a long, freezing night in knee deep Arctic waters. Another engine failure on the flight from Haiphong to Tourane (modern day Da Nang, Vietnam) forced the Chicago to land in a lagoon several hours short of Tourane. The other crews waggled their wings after seeing the Chicago land safely and continued on to Tourane. Once there, they summoned a Navy destroyer to carry a spare engine back to the stranded crew. They tied the DWC to a bridge and used the bridge as a fulcrum to work a block and tackle arrangement to hoist out the old Liberty and attach the new one. Once this impromptu exchange was completed, Smith cranked the engine and they flew on to Tourane. From there, the remaining three airplanes flew to Saigon and a meeting with the snobbish garcon. The incident with the waiter actually highlights a chronic complaint of the goal-oriented aviators. At every stop, public clamor for elaborate receptions and photo opportunities with local gentry piled on the airmen. Since the flight was representing the Air Service and in a larger sense, the United States, the airmen had to grit their teeth and bear the Chinese, Turkish, or British equivalent of the ‘rubber chicken and peas’ circuit. Besides making the flyers uncomfortable, the social pressures extended their work day. After hours of the most demanding flying, then three-four more spent servicing the aircraft, the crews had to then clean up and present themselves for the toasts and cheers of the locals. It was often midnight or later before they saw a bed and the next morning’s take-off loomed only a few hours away. They thus flew every day completely tuckered out. After a ten hour day getting into Paris, the crews changed into formal uniforms (sent ahead by the Air Service!) and attended a special showing of the Folies Bergere. When the lights went down, so did six pairs of eyelids! All six promptly fell asleep during the most famous show of its day. Returning to their hotel, the still tired men hung hand lettered signs on each door: Please do not wake us Until nine o’clock tomorrow morning Unless the hotel is on fire And not even then Unless the firemen have given up all hope. The next day, they alighted for London where Lt Wade demonstrated the Americans can be as polished as any Old World denizen. Hosted by the Royal Air Force at its club in Piccadilly, Erik Nelson recounted the tale: “It was at the table and on one side of Leigh sat a dignified general and on the other sat Lord somebody. Well, with a knife in one hand and a fork in the other, Leigh fell sound asleep - and snored. Nor was this his first offense for he had done the same thing at a dinner after one of our long flights in the Kurile Islands. But folks insisted on entertaining us, so listening to Leigh’s imitation trombone solo was the price they paid.” On their first attempt to leave the British Isles on the way to Iceland the Chicago and Boston encountered fog soon after takeoff and elected to turn back and wait for better weather. Lt Nelson, in the New Orleans, also took off but elected to proceed. After a harrowing incident, he arrived in Iceland and sent back this laconic telegraph to his comrades in the UK: GOT INTO PROPELLOR WASH IN THE FOG WENT INTO SPIN PARTIALLY OUT OF CONTROL CAME OUT JUST ABOVE THE WATER CONTINUED ON LANDING AT HORNA FJORD ALL OK NELSON The next day, Chicago and Boston took off again for Iceland. This stretch of the journey was ill-fated. The Boston’s oil pressure dropped to zero and Wade was forced to land on the open ocean. Smith, in the Chicago, watched as the Boston touched the waves but due to fuel concerns, couldn’t stop. He dropped notes to a US Navy destroyer posted 100 miles away and later to a telegraph station on the Icelandic coast. The crew was rescued but the aircraft was battered to a pulp in the rough ocean and sank. Speeches, awards and civic honors piled on the men after they finally landed back at Seattle on September 27th. Reporters constantly harassed the flyers for quotes. One newsman asked Lt Smith, “Would you do it again?” Smith summarized the feeling of all the Army men when he said, “Not for a million dollars…..unless I was ordered to.” The Chicago, now resting in a place of honor in the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum, flew more than 26,000 miles in 363 hours, 7 minutes of flying time. Or out of the total trip time of 175 days, just over 15 days were actually spent airborne. The other days were consumed by weather delays, maintenance snags and the incessant need to socialize on behalf of the United States. If publicity is what the Air Service wanted, publicity is what it got. The flight paid the hoped for dividends. Within two years, Congress had tripled funding for airplanes. SIDEBARS The machines: Douglas World Cruiser Chicago: Type: Single engine tractor, two-place biplane Construction: Tubular steel and wood framework with fabric cover. Metal fittings and cowling. Floats are 3-ply veneer and mahogany planking Wingspan: 50 ft Length: 35 ft, 6 in Engine Liberty V-12 rated 400-425 hp Fuel capacity: 450 US gal Oil capacity: 50 US gal Cooling: Water Landplane Seaplane Weight lbs (empty/max) 4300/6915 5100/7715 Max speed 104 mph 100 mph Cruise: 90 mph 85 mph Rate of climb 500 fpm 500 fpm Ceiling: 10,000 ft 7,000 ft Endurance: 2,200 miles 1,650 miles The Men: Major Frederick L. Martin, commander: Initially a Coast Artillery officer, he became a pilot after 12 years in the Army. At the journey’s start he had 700 flight hours, the least of any of the pilots. Later in his career, he was the Commanding General for the Hawaiian Air Forces, December 7, 1941, the day the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. 1Lt Lowell H. Smith, adjutant, later commander of the flight: Learned to fly while working as an airplane mechanic for Pancho Villa during the Mexican revolution. Earned the Mackey Trophy for the 1919 Transcontinental Reliability and Endurance Test, flying coast to coast in 54 hours. In 1923, was a pilot for the first air to air refueling. Eventually held 16 national and world aviation records. 1Lt Leigh Wade: WW I flying training squadron commander, became a test pilot at the US Army’s McCook Field, establishing an altitude record of 27,120 feet the early 1920s. An expert in aerial photography, he left the service for a civilian job but was recalled for duty during World War II. The year after the 1924 Flight, he was a driver in the first transcontinental non-stop auto race, traveling from Los Angeles to New York in 165 hours, 50 minutes. 1Lt Erik H. Nelson, engineering officer: Swedish born, he served as a merchant seaman before emigrating to the United States in 1909. Enlisted in the Air Service as a mechanic and went on to become a pilot during WW I. A mechanical wizard, he left the Army to help form the Boeing Aircraft Company, serving as a consultant in the development of the B-29 Superfortress for WW II. 1Lt Leslie P. Arnold, alternate pilot/replacement mechanic: A theater actor before joining the Army, he participated in the 1921 Army bombing of obsolete battleships off the Virginia coast. He left the service in 1928 to help found what became Trans World Airlines. Recalled to active duty during WW II, he served as a colonel with the US Eight Air Force in England. 1Lt John T. Harding, mechanic: A mechanical engineer with a law degree, he enlisted as a private in the Air Service during WW I. Later he was granted a reserve commission and worked as a civilian mechanic at McCook Field. He held the patent to an electric fuel valve that was used extensively in American fighters during WW II. An interesting physical feature of Harding was that he had one brown eye and one blue. SSgt. Henry H. Ogden, mechanic: The youngest of the World Fliers at 23, he was a marvel at trouble-shooting mechanical faults. He also performed plane-to-plane transfers during airshows during his off duty time. He later helped organize the Michigan Air National Guard and became a commercial test pilot. SSgt Alva L. Harvey, mechanic: A hard working mechanic, Harvey had caught Fred Martin’s eye when the latter was the commander of the Air Service’s mechanics school. Harvey was also an accomplished parachute jumper. He became a pilot in 1926 and commanded a B-29 bomb group in the Pacific during WW II. Crash and Rescue of the Seattle’s crew In the early stages of the trip, on April 30, 1924, flying from one stop on the Alaskan coast to the next, Maj. Martin and SSgt Harvey encountered dense fog that reduced their forward visibility to a few feet. While trying to clear a mountain pass, they crashed and were lucky to survive with only minor injuries. Unfortunately, they were stranded miles from anywhere with no means of communications. They spent the first night huddled in the wreck of the Seattle, then set out to find help. After eight days of hiking through the wilderness with almost no food, they stumbled onto a lake cabin that had canned supplies inside. A day of rest and nourishment there and they set out again. They spotted a boat of Aleut Indians who took them to a nearby fish cannery that had a radio. They were finally picked on May 14th. Offered the chance to travel east around the world to meet the flight in Turkey and assume command again, Martin magnanimously declined saying: “While there is nothing I should like better than to rejoin the flight….a considerable portion of the flight will have been accomplished without me. In fairness to Lt Smith, who succeeded me in command, I think he should so continue…and bring the flight back to the United States.”

Related in that it's the same author, Steve Davies: In the current LOGBOOK Magazine, there is a good excerpt from Steve's "F-15 Eagle Engaged" book as well as a review of the book. I also recommend the magazine, started a few years ago by a former USN ASW pilot (helos, I think, but Dave might have driven P-3s) who now flies commercially. LOGBOOK puts out some pretty good "there I was" stories, some entertaining aviation historical stuff, and some good photos. Sorry to sound like a pimp for it, but I'd like to see a flyer make good at telling the stories.

Besides reduction in force, RIF stands for reading is fundamental. Ok, try this slowly: The USAF and USN agreed to the STOVL version to get the Marines to join in, thus sharing the costs, thus getting the program through its birthing pains. While you are Captain Obvious on the ownership of the big gray boats, the only reason they exist is because of the Marines. The Marines effectively run that program within the Pentagon. They determine what toys go on/in it. The USN goes along because they get more big gray things along with the support elements. The obvious answers are: A) Sure, with some butter and garlic, they grill up nice! B) No, why? Do you have some locked in your basement you can spare?