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Alpha, There is some great advice and pros/ cons posted for you here in this thread. I'm just going to pile-on to share my take and opinion since I wasted 20 minuted trying to remember my login password. These are very important decisions that you will need to make and you really should give it very serious consideration. Like others have said, if she is The One, you probably need to put a ring on it. The difference between GF and wife in the military is huge. If she is The One, she deserves to be treated as such especially as you guys enter the military and UPT training. Don't leave her out of this incredible part of your life together. If she is The One, she needs to be prepared to move or drop her school and accompany you. This will become the norm and be one of many sacrifices that she will make. If she is The One, then both of you will be better served by being married and supporting each other though the challenge of UPT and beyond. If she is The One, UPT will be just Chapter One. You can't read a great book and skip the first chapter. Determining whether she truly is The One is obviously the difficult decision that you need to make. If she is The One, then UPT, FTU, your first assignment, your many TDYs/ deployments, you last assignment, the missed Xmas'- birthdays- anniversary's- births- etc, your follow on career, your retirement, and happily ever after's will all be separate chapters in this book of life together. Embrace it...together. While an aspiring young fighter jock can only focus on the near rocks...some of the crusty old dudes here will give you valuable perspective on the far rocks. The comaraderie, experiences, and stories that you will gain from the USAF as a pilot are invaluable. Likewise, the USAF will F¥CK you over repeatedly due to its own bureaucratic ineptitude and failed policies. You will embrace your military service for the rest of your life. Your stories will be a source of pride. Your experiences will be your treasures that you will share repeatedly and joyfully. But, the USAF will very likely be a shorter part of your life than you can imagine now at your young life of about 22 years. I promise that your family is undoubtedly far more valuable than the USAF could ever hope to be. u Chang. This forum has centuries of experience amongst its users. If it wasn't for Hacker and his early internet blog (Road to Wings- pre Bops) I might not be here. You'll get all sorts of perspectives and stories and they each bring such value. There is no right or wrong answer for your situation; the right answer is the one that you decide and act upon, after thorough careful considerations. Here's my story in a shell- My wife and I met when we were too young to drive. After high school, our sporadic younger flings became serious and we took our relationship to a commited level. I felt that she could be The One and acted on it. Together, we spent the next 8 years beginning a life together starting with absolutely nothing but each other. I worked on cars putting myself through college and flight school. My wife and I were a team and she stood by my side, while everyone else mocked my dreams. With toddler age children, I finished college and flight school while working full time and supporting my young family. I poured everything that I had into my OCS (OTS to be correct) package and prayed that I did well enough to be accepted. Thankfully, I knew that if I was not accepted, I had my family and passion to succeed in life however that deck was dealt. I was accepted and obviously my family continued to support me through OTS/ UPT. I absolutely couldn't imagine not having them by my side through training. The hardest challenge that I faced was being away from my family for OTS. UPT was not a problem especially with the support structure that my family provided me. Having young kids allowed me to occasionally disconnect from UPT and training to enjoy life a little bit. That mental break is crucially important. With their support and understanding of my studies, I did very well and finished at the top of my class. I went on to fly fighters and did well. Sadly, I spent many fighter TDYs partying like a young single fighter pilot and I regret that to this day. Why? Because the fighter jet came and went. Guess what stuck with me through thick and thin? Yep. I also saw many fly-by-night marriages that lasted a year or two at best. The military isn't going to take you to great locales...your hometown with your hometown HS sweetheart may be better than some would lead to believe. Fast forward a decade and some... The USAF is lost and spatially D'd. After hundreds of days deployed over non-stop bursts and being sick of the politically correct, social experiment that has become the US military, I punched out of AD. While I cherish my experiences, friendships, and stories, this was such a wise move for both my career and family. Remember the book of life that I spoke of? I'm barely into Chapter 7 now. I left AD and worked for a crazy outfit building crazy airplanes for a while while prioritizing my family. After realizing that my book might end abruptly, I decided that an airline career was a wise choice. 15 years ago I was the most determined wannabe fighter jock in the world. Now I'm a much wiser airline pilot and my family couldn't be happier. I couldn't be happier. I love my wife and she loves me. My kids love me and I would do anything in the world for them. I just took one to college and couldn't be prouder of the young man that my wife, errr.... we raised. I now spend so much time with each and every one of them. So much time. I look forward to every day not because I want to fly to Hawaii or DC, but because of the time that I can spend with those that really matter to me. Aside from a few disturbed weekends here and there, the USAF is nothing but great stories and memories about a time gone by. So...embrace your future. It's amazing and you should be thrilled. You should be proud. If this GF is serious, and you are too, don't exclude her because of cold feet or indecision. If you want to be a fighter pilot then learn now how to be decisive. My story is just one of many. Use the info that you have. And now I'm that I'm out of beer...

Major General Allardice, is that you?! Nothing helps morale like have a two-star say that exact thing to your face as an impressionable junior captain. That kind of stuff is what happens between year 1-8 -- in addition to marriage, kids, and changing priorities -- that make CGOs want to punch so badly.

Dr. Lehman was the 65th Secretary of the Navy and a member of the 9/11 Commission. More importantly than SECNAV...Dr. Lehman was a Reserve A-6 Intruder B/N (Bombardier/Navigator) and continued to fly out of NAS Oceana even during his days as SECNAV. He was a little before my time...but from what I heard around the squadron spaces, he was popular...had his issues and distractions, but was a pretty effective SECNAV during one of the largest peacetime build ups of our nations military (the 80's). Here is a little taste of what I mean: Posted by aaron on February 19, 2008 Got this kickass story from Gunner John Lehman was the US Secretary of the Navy from 1981 to 1987. He was also in a rather unique position being an active Navy Reserve flier as a Bombadier-Navigator on the A-6 Intruder. In the rank of Commander, he certainly was nowhere near the highest ranking officer where ever he went. However, as Secretary of the Navy he established Naval policy, sat at the very top of the Navy chain-of-command and every Admiral in the Navy answered to him. Never the less, when we put on the Navy uniform, he was just another Commander. Lehman typically would do his required Navy Reserve training at NAS Oceana, not far from his Secretary’s offices in Washington DC. He enjoyed talking with the guys in the back bar at the club. On one such night the Base CO, Dynamite, walked in, spotted Lehman and walked over to apologize along the lines of "Mr. Secretary, I’m sorry, my staff didn't tell me you were aboard the station." Lehman said "That's OK Skipper, I'm just here as a weekend warrior bagging some flight time." Cramer replied, "OK Commander, then get a f*cking haircut and be in my office at 0800!" Lehman immediately walked across the street to the BOQ barbershop!

Our FTU is less than 50% manned. The VML webinar AFPC put on for the bomber guys said that staffing the FTU was the number one priority...but the FTU has a more significant shortage than any other squadron, in both the B-1 and B-52.

Echoing Allardice's words...that's exactly the threat my previous Gp/CC issued to me and the other instructors in the room during our instructor cert if we failed to keep up with the queep/admin part of being an instructor. What a cancer. On the flip side, the Wing king was a total bro...."I know all you guys are jumping ship to go to the airlines...let me know what I can do to help get you guys to stay. We need you"

This is all so touching. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually got to chat with a guy from Homestead flying Vipers a couple years ago. He was a full-up heavy guy, T-1s and everything who got picked up. Also flys for a major airline. Super awesome guy. His advice was if you want it go for it. Im no mother Cleo, but I will say I have seen a huge influx of 11Fs rushing KC-135 units due to the minimal requirements to stay current. Most of those guys seem to miss the fighter but have a hard time taking the pay cut to fly fighters in the ANG/Reserves, especially since AD is putting more and more requirements on those dudes to shoulder the deployment load. So only 2 days a month seems like a pretty good deal to them.

A younger dude here so maybe I could offer my 2 cents on why the big cultural shift for me. In the start of UPT I was stoked to go fly jets and get paid for it and could never understand why the older dudes always said they could not wait to get out. Fast forward to the end of UPT and I am already thinking of my indentured servitude of 10 years (experiencing terrible policy decisions and witnessing the best IPs pulling chocks because they couldn't deal with Big Blue anymore, also terrible Officers IMO getting promoted for kiss assery). But I remain optimistic and think maybe out in the CAF since UPT is AETC (grass is always greener...). Well get out to the CAF and realize things haven't changed that much in the terms of shenanigans in leadership. I have more queep jobs and assignments to do since we don't have the manning and that is more of an emphasis then flying and getting really good at your primary job as a pilot. Combine that with getting kicked in the junk by AFPC handing down some crap non flying gig or flying gig at some dump of a location. Also our FAM telling us (I'm an 11B) that our side of pilots is hurting as well and instead of having bargaining power since we are so few and far between that we will have more work and have less chance of doing some assignment we may want. So instead, we are now going to be stuck at Dyess or Minot for longer than we ever wanted to be there and there is nothing we can do about it. Add on top of that having a Lt Col DO black border patch telling me if he were in my shoes he would get the hell out at 10 and go fly for the airlines. I look for a reason to stay in the Air Force everyday but the Air Force always sends me back more reasons to go. So combine that with airlines paying 200k plus a year in a location that you want to live in, only doing your primary job of flying and not even a full months of work, guys don't have to ask themselves twice if Big Blue is the better gig. Side question. Anyone heard if they are going to open up this crossflow to fighters to the Bomber Bros? Leadership has not mentioned a word of it and I think it is to keep us in the dark a little bit so we all don't abandon post. All of us are 38 quald and I know a ton of people that would take the chance. I have a healthy reality check of the answer being no because Big Blue is hurting in the 11B community as well but anything is possible in this AF as we all know. Thanks again fellas!

MAF school houses are much shorter than CAF school houses. Some -- like the KC-10 -- are in-house at their respective bases. MAF co-pilot courses are typically a TDY enroute to a PCS which is why MAF assignments typically come with bases attached. Yes, the C-130 school house is typically a PCS -- just barely. CAF courses are a PCS where you find out your first operational base sometime during your B-course. As for the FAIPs, well... HOW ABOUT THAT EN 16-08 DROP LAST WEEK... ANYBODY?!

Not everyone catches the yellow fever.

I think a lot of what happens is we grow up. Bright-eyed LTs become husbands and dads and start thinking about life after the AF and making more little league games. Priorities change as we get older and the AF can't control that.

The difference between girlfriend and wife is as significant as the difference between having her accompany you or expect you to fly/drive a few hours to see her. On one end of the spectrum is the wife accompanying you to UPT and at the other end of the spectrum there's the girlfriend (not even fiancé) expecting you to do the bulk of the travel in a long-distance relationship. Let's just label those two ends of the spectrum as good and bad, respectively. I saw lots of good examples flourish in UPT. If you know she's THE keeper, she probably needs a ring. If you're not willing to do that, you've already answered your own question but just haven't yet come to grips with that answer. I'm with Hoss. I know a lot of divorced dudes, but none that (after seeing the world for far more than a 2-month abroad program) pine for the one that got away - especially one they weren't willing to commit to at the time when it mattered most. The amount of emotional and personal growth/change that takes place from college graduation to becoming a flight lead or AC is an order of magnitude greater than any growing up you did in college. There are many stories of college sweethearts that last forever, but if you want to maximize your chances for marriage success - wait until that maturation process runs its course.

Good topic. Seems a lot of the input here is geared towards AD. I know UPT is going to be hard regardless, but would your advice change at all for a Reservist going through the program to be a tanker pilot? And by that, I mean not having the pressure of trying to edge out the competition to get that fighter slot. I am going to UPT in the near future a couple hours from home. My wife will stay in our current house and works full time, is pretty independent, working on a masters degree, and is 100% supportive. Also we've been married 8 years so being preoccupied for a couple years probably isn't going to adversely impact the same way as a new couple. I'd like to visit home on weekends more often than not since it is such a short trip, although UPT is the priority. Does this sound pretty workable or am I being totally naive? Also I would appreciate any input on what to expect in terms of additional pay, such as housing allowance, separation pay, or whatever else would be provided if I live in the dorms and still have a wife in a house out of town.

All of the talk of increasing 11F production, just to make sure that 11F staff billets are filled, reminded me of this blog post from a couple years ago. I feel like the whole damn defense apparatus of the country is somewhere between "Bloat" and full-on "Failure/Implosion." http://www.oftwominds.com/blogdec10/lifecycle-bureaucracy12-10.html "Tip of the spear" military forces and readiness are left twisting in the wind while the thousands of senior officers in the Pentagon and Services jostle for promotions. At the point of implosion, there are more captains, colonels and generals than actual war-fighters. (There are plenty of barbers, cooks, waiters and assistants, though, to serve the senior officers.) Benefits for the survivors are left basically untouched while new hires are fired to preserve the budget for those with seniority. At some point, the mission of the bureaucracy is completely lost, and the citizens' patience with institutional incompetence and self-aggrandizement finally runs out.

Guys, if you have even a RCH inclination to volunteers for a cross flow, do it. Worst case you can go back to flying heavies when your adsc is up. I've never met a heavy > fighter cross flow who regretted it. For those thinking "But my precious career and school slot!"........F-ck that! I know a lot of former pilots/generals and not one of them ever talked about how they miss command or schools. But they tell me often how much they miss the flying and when it's over, it's over. Nobody outside big blue will ever give a shit that you were an in-res ACSC/AWC guy below the zone.....but you'll be talking about your flying stories and experiences your whole life.

Oh good god, man. I was going to let this die rather than participate in a classic baseops dick-measuring contest, but the irony here is just too rich. You lecture your homie about not spouting off about that which he knows nothing of, but then you reply to Moose's very valid points with a naive combination of ignorance and NG propagandist talking points. Once again, you have no clue as to the capes of the U-2. On 4 U2 deployments, I personally have never wx cancelled a U2 mission and can count on one hand the missions that I saw wx cancel. I've climbed and descended through ice, lots of it. I've dodged TS by looking out of the window. I've landed in 1/4 mile vis, mobiled sorties that landed with lightening and TS very close to the field, and mobiled and flown missions which landed in excess of our crosswind limit. The U2 is extremely flexible WRT weather. On station and enroute, we are ALWAYS above it. Can you claim the same things? Not queep unless you are ignorant or just touting the party line. WRT threats, yes, we have capes to operate in those denied environments, jamming and kinetic. Your lack of knowledge here is glaring, but this forum is not the place to rectify that. Grab iowa and go to the vault. Sure, all gobble drivers are now stoked to be there. Wait, let me find my BS flag... I can't even believe that you are persisting with this pack of 12 bullshit. As Moose already pointed out, it's not your POS jet that anybody cares about, its the freaking billion dollar sensor. We don't have 12 packs of those. And yes, distance matters. Especially vertical distance. How high can you guys carry the payload again? Clueless again. You need to open up your aperture beyond mx/wx limitations. Perhaps the U2 wasn't tasked to cover GH shortages because we're already maxed and operating at near 100% rates. Truth. Also, perhaps there have been instances where the CCDR needed an asset in the air RIGHT FUCKING NOW and the GH never entered the conversation because it's not even remotely possible. But guess who can surge, waive shit, plop a driver in the jet and get on station FAST. Ask your intel folks where/when this situation might be applicable. Or ask any U2 driver. Finally, we agree on something. If indeed the GH were merely complimentary to the U2 or its ultimate replacement, that would be fantastic. But for some reason the boneheads making the rules have decided it should be either/or. And therein lies the problem with the GH. And of it were so simple to modify the GH to carry U2 sensors, carry them higher, and generate the power (electricity) required for the next gen, then trust me, NG would have done it long ago. The problem is that it is not a simple remedy, and may in fact prove impossible. Which could leave us with a subpar platform replacing a more capable (and cheaper) platform for the sake of politics. I don't care what you fly, that is a fucking fail.

I think it all goes back to what you want out of your career. If you do this its probably because you care more about the experience than careerism. I've seen many a major or light col walking around just flying the line because they died on the upward movement but at least they are still doing what they love (I hope). I'm throwing my name in the ring because careerism isn't important to me and am not worried about promotions. If me going to help out with an AF wide manning issue screws up my ability to get promoted or have "normal progression" then the big blue will loss me as soon as my ADSC for the FTU is over. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was starting to get uncomfortable myself. So in hopes of derailing this thread, here goes... Screw the Air Force. Leadership sucks. Go to the airlines, the grass is greener. FU Chang. C Model drivers are homos. DD-214 blanket. Et cetera, et cetera. That's better. The Baseops I know and love.