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KC-135 Tanker Q&A

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WTFO?!? There is NO WAY on God's Green Earth that you can learn to fly a KC-135 safely in 3 flights. No ######ing way.

I don't care how many sims you suffer through. The sim just isn't that good. I know other platforms have been doing this for years, but they aren't 50 years old either (and therefore fly like they're 50 years old).

This is going to be a real treat when these guys start coming back to the squadron, banging them on (sts), and setting off the asinine hard landing light (which is a whole different rant altogether), and generally screwing up the entire mission flow. Ugh.

Since this is still PIQ, they are getting 3 flights to do all of the events in BOTH seats??? R/L seat 4 eng, 3 eng, EFTOC, 30 flap, etc? Again, YGBSM. The new guys we're getting back now can barely run the fuel panel, let alone fly the jet...and that is with 12 flights. This is madness.

Bergman,

Believe me, your reaction was echoed at tanker squadrons everywhere. The AF is trying to save training $ and the generals look at the -135 training EPs in the jet when the other heavies do it in the sim and wanted to standardize. The PIQs will get an instrument qual checkride in the sim, which includes landings and EPs, and get a mission check in the jet, which includes refueling and tactics. Most folks are not pleased that we're moving in this direction, but the decisions have been made. I think it will take at least one or more serious mishaps where inadequate training is found as a causal factor to raise questions about this change, but you know as well as I that any f*ckups by a PIQ will likely be blamed on the AC for inadequate supervision and judgment, not the minimal experience they received during formal training.

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Bergman,

Believe me, your reaction was echoed at tanker squadrons everywhere. The AF is trying to save training $ and the generals look at the -135 training EPs in the jet when the other heavies do it in the sim and wanted to standardize. The PIQs will get an instrument qual checkride in the sim, which includes landings and EPs, and get a mission check in the jet, which includes refueling and tactics. Most folks are not pleased that we're moving in this direction, but the decisions have been made.

I wonder if the generals making these decisions have flown a KC-135 recently - with a new Altus grad. Again I say, there is no way in hell you can learn to land a KC-135 in the sim. UFB.

I think it will take at least one or more serious mishaps where inadequate training is found as a causal factor to raise questions about this change, but you know as well as I that any f*ckups by a PIQ will likely be blamed on the AC for inadequate supervision and judgment, not the minimal experience they received during formal training.

Sadly, I think you're right. Keep in mind that all of this is going on while the AD is upgrading people with ~800 hours total time (including UPT, sim, OTHER, and pri/sec). Does the AD still waive the 800 hours?? Anyway, this is a recipe for disaster IMHO. Thankfully, there haven't been any major issues so far, which is why this stupidity continues. And you're right - the AC will take it in the shorts because they're the last person in the chain. There are some serious design issues with the -135 that should prevent newbies from ever sitting in the left seat to begin with (tiller, anti-skid, speed brakes), which makes me really wonder who is making these decisions. Surely not someone who has ever flown the jet.

To get back on my original question...no more PUP in FY09? I know our unit will have several 'Legacy Copilots' remaining after the FY starts, so it looks like we'll have to in-unit upgrade them. I've talked with our training folks about all of this, and I'm kind of surprised that none of them really know what is going on. Or maybe I shouldn't be all that surprised.

Thanks for the info fellas. Good luck to the Block 40 PIQs. You're going to need it.

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I'm moving to Fairchild in the spring and wanted to see what you guys thought about neighborhoods in Spokane. Based on some internet research, Google Earth, and a local realtor, I'm looking into the following areas: Cliff Canyon, Manito, Comstock, Rockwoods, Lincoln Heights, West Central, Emerson Garfield, Northtown.

Any experience/beef with these areas? Are there any other prime spots you would recommend?

'preciate any help.

Edited by kenblankenship

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I'm moving to Fairchild in the spring and wanted to see what you guys thought about neighborhoods in Spokane. Based on some internet research, Google Earth, and a local realtor, I'm looking into the following areas: Cliff Canyon, Manito, Comstock, Rockwoods, Lincoln Heights, West Central, Emerson Garfield, Northtown.

Any experience/beef with these areas? Are there any other prime spots you would recommend?

'preciate any help.

Kenny,

Cliff Canyon as in the apartments? If so, they're fairly new and an easy commute to base, area not bad. Manito: Anywhere on the west side of Spokane's South Hill above about 14th St or so is the cat's a$$. Something off the High Drive (yes, that's actually the street's name) in the 57th St. area near Manito Country Club near oh say 44th and the High Drive is very good too. Comstock as in the park, farther up the hill and not far from Manito Park, again very nice neighborhood. Not cheap but nice.

West Central, if its where I'm thinking (and I culdbe wrong) = Beruit (aka "Felony Flats"), nuff said. Northtown, as in near the mall? YGBSM. Now the Northside (there's a difference) near Whitworth Univ/Wandemere is also nice.

Shadle Park area has seen better days, as has the area near the VA Hospital/Joe Albi stadium. Other areas to check into: Medical Lake, Cheney (Eastern Washington Univ. :beer: ) and Spoakne Valley i.e. Liberty Lake. little bit of a commute but nice area and only mear minutes to Cabella's Mega Store in Post Falls, ID.

To get a picture (sts) of Spokane check out the TV station's website at khq.com I think you can link into crime rate stats from there. Not trying to scare you but it can give you an idea of where you wanna leave mamma and the little Kennys while you're out doing the j-o-b.

Edit casue me not spell so good. 2x.

Edited by Stitch

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Thanks Stitch. Any intel on the top 3 & bottom 3 school districts? I'm trying to figure that into the couple houses I'm looking at. My realtor is obligated not to say anything... so I'm relying on word of mouth.

Any info would be appreciated. Happy New Year!

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Thanks Stitch. Any intel on the top 3 & bottom 3 school districts? I'm trying to figure that into the couple houses I'm looking at. My realtor is obligated not to say anything... so I'm relying on word of mouth.

Any info would be appreciated. Happy New Year!

My wife starts off school searches with greatschools.com, IIRC.

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Any intel on the top 3 & bottom 3 school districts?

The very top district is Liberty, but it is in a rural area quite a ways south of Spokane (Spangle area). Mead and Central Valley districts are also at the top of the list. But, don’t disregard Cheney and Medical Lake districts. Both are considerably above average and near Fairchild.

Spokane City schools (District 81) is a mixed lot; some terrible, some mediocre, a few above average). Unless you want to gamble, best avoid it. Districts to steer clear of include East Valley and Riverside.

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The very top district is Liberty, but it is in a rural area quite a ways south of Spokane (Spangle area). Mead and Central Valley districts are also at the top of the list. But, don’t disregard Cheney and Medical Lake districts. Both are considerably above average and near Fairchild.

Spokane City schools (District 81) is a mixed lot; some terrible, some mediocre, a few above average). Unless you want to gamble, best avoid it. Districts to steer clear of include East Valley and Riverside.

"2" on everything. Mead (Norhtside of Spokane) and the Central Valley (Spokane Valley not far from Idaho boarder) while both a bit of a commute to the base have the best schools in my opinion and from what I've been told (my kid attends a small private school, not public, and worth every dime IMO). Spangle would be cool, but very small town in the middle of farm country south of town if that's your thing. OBTW, don't even think about living the the area of town called Hillyard.

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Guest tneiheis

Is anyone out there an AD dude who flies in an ANG associate unit? Are there any differences between flying with a associate unit compared to an AD unit? What is the Ops tempo like for the associate units?

I am about to graduate from UPT and i haven't found anyone at Laughlin who can talk about these units so any help is appreciated

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Guest Crew Report

Is anyone out there an AD dude who flies in an ANG associate unit? Are there any differences between flying with a associate unit compared to an AD unit? What is the Ops tempo like for the associate units?

I am about to graduate from UPT and i haven't found anyone at Laughlin who can talk about these units so any help is appreciated

That's because the people who helped setup the units are still there. Seymour Johnson was the first one and that opened back in '07ish.

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Update on the three flights to check at PIQ issue. As of the latest class to hit the flightline and the next class (mine) they will be adding 2 flights, including a pattern only so sounds like a move in the right direction.

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Guest Crew Report

Update on the three flights to check at PIQ issue. As of the latest class to hit the flightline and the next class (mine) they will be adding 2 flights, including a pattern only so sounds like a move in the right direction.

We need to go back to 7 flights and check.

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Tanker pilot at McConnell.  All of my nav buddies are on a 1:1 dwell.  As in literally delaying TACC missions because DAV expires in a few hours from frag'd takeoff.  It's that bad.  When you are home expect to rot in the office except for the occasional SOAR flight.  Navs getting any seasoning other than learning how to find their way from McConnell to Mildenhall to the Deid is completely personality driven in Sq/Gp/Wg leadership - it ebbs and flows.  Expect to stay at McConnell as long as the SOAR mission is there; follow-ons are mostly to AMLO/CRG with a few UNT or AFSOC opportunities.  Truth be told, more than a few navs ended up going on to be pilots/drone pilots or straight up getting out.  

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Another revival. 

What are the deployment/TAD/dwell rates looking like now? 

If you had your choice of a tanker base, where would you go?

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Mildenhall and Kadena are still flying clubs, busy though. Stay away from Fairchild and McConnell. Both OG’s there are more concerned with award packages, zipper length, and haircuts than flying.

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...if there is a TFI unit at a base you want to be later it’s a great three year interview.


A little off topic, but this right here.

I’ll add that almost every ANG/AFRC -135 crewdog our there knows at least one -135 guy at every other ANG/AFRC squadron out there from our 10 years of rainbow deployments to the Died (and Guam to a lesser extent). We all flew missions, ate omelets, drank 3 beers and bitched about the same stuff over and over again. We all kept in touch and we all reach out to each other bro to bro when someone applies to our respective unit(s).

It’s amazing to me how some people don’t quite realize this.


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22 minutes ago, Scooter14 said:

 


A little off topic, but this right here.

I’ll add that almost every ANG/AFRC -135 crewdog our there knows at least one -135 guy at every other ANG/AFRC squadron out there from our 10 years of rainbow deployments to the Died (and Guam to a lesser extent). We all flew missions, ate omelets, drank 3 beers and bitched about the same stuff over and over again. We all kept in touch and we all reach out to each other bro to bro when someone applies to our respective unit(s).

It’s amazing to me how some people don’t quite realize this.

 

 

Real question: why do the -135 guys always have the lights cranked down so low in the AOR, while the -10 guys are lit up like Christmas trees?

Only a few times I was really nervous in the AOR, and most of the time it involved night AR w/ a -135...

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1 hour ago, baileynme said:

TFI is either awesome or heinous, completely depends on leadership but if there is a TFI unit at a base you want to be later it’s a great three year interview.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

So I’m understanding correctly,  a TFI unit is simply an active-duty unit that is located at either an ANG or Reserve base? 

 

Do you need to rush these units or are they assignable like any other regular active squadron? 

Edited by Bigred

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So I’m understanding correctly,  a TFI unit is simply an active-duty unit that is located at either an ANG or Reserve base? 
 
Do you need to rush these units or are they assignable like any other regular active squadron? 


Yes. It’s an AD squadron assigned to an ANG or AFRC Wing. They also have a line of ADCON back to an AD wing somewhere. It’s complicated.

They get assigned like any other tanker assignment to the AD guys.

64 ARS - Pease ANGB (157 ARW ANG)
911 ARS - SJAFB (916 ARW AFRC)
912 ARS - March ARB (452 AMW AFRC)
906 ARS - Scott AFB (126 ARW ANG)
99 ARS - Birmingham AL (117 ARW ANG)

I’m forgetting one on the AFRC side I think...



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Real question: why do the -135 guys always have the lights cranked down so low in the AOR, while the -10 guys are lit up like Christmas trees?
Only a few times I was really nervous in the AOR, and most of the time it involved night AR w/ a -135...
Hey, don't knock one of the only tactical counter-measures we have...

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

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