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Promotion and PRF Information

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9 hours ago, IDALPHA said:

Where is the data showing promotion rate for non-pilots that took the bonus? I think that this boils down to simple economics.... Why pay someone more when they don’t have an easy avenue to a six figure job on the outside and already committed for the next 5-6 years.... 

I want to believe there’s some kind of conspiracy that leads to this but I just don’t think it’s true.  Once you’ve been passed over twice you either get the boot or you get offered continuation.  Continuation is purely voluntary and is the ultimate “get out of jail free card.”  All ADSCs are waived though you would have to pay back portions of the bonus.  I would think board members would realize this when making their judgements.

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4 hours ago, Klepto said:

They've already said that you will always compete in your core AFSC.  Doesn't matter if you've spent the last 1-10 years in a non-standard, non-traditional, or out-of-core area.

Exactly....will these on-loan positions be valued in the new system? Or will only core events for the functional areas be valued towards promotion by only that functional area? Aka outisde the tribe penalty...

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2 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

I have know idea what APZ, BTZ, IPZ, Triple double DP IPZ means, but this all seems ed up.

You said it brother. It’s amazing that I can make O5 in the ARC and have no idea what a super P/double DP etc is!!

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14 hours ago, pbar said:

 I also know a B-1 WSO who made O-4 7 APZ.

The Air Force offers continuation to non-select Captains? 

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1 hour ago, Bigred said:

The Air Force offers continuation to non-select Captains? 

Yes

   To 20 years.   Majors to 24

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16 hours ago, bennynova said:

Yes

   To 20 years.   Majors to 24

Learning has occurred. Thanks. 

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For the group, has anyone heard of people who didn’t get promoted to O5 IPZ, but then also got a non-continuation paperwork this board. Asking for a friend 

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2 hours ago, jrizzell said:

For the group, has anyone heard of people who didn’t get promoted to O5 IPZ, but then also got a non-continuation paperwork this board. Asking for a friend 

I didn’t think that was possible

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So the 1/3 DPs ATZ that did not get promoted that I know told me today that the feedback was “inconsistent sq/cc pushes in his record.”

 

FWIW.

 

Push for Sq/CC is a go/no-go.

 

Not sure what his record is but if any of you have inconsistent pushes ala “Sq/CC next” on one OPR and receive a “Groom or monitor” on your next OPR you could be in trouble.

 

Don’t sign that next OPR until you schedule an appt with that rater, addl rater or senior rater.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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2 hours ago, Skitzo said:

So the 1/3 DPs ATZ that did not get promoted that I know told me today that the feedback was “inconsistent sq/cc pushes in his record.”

 

FWIW.

 

Push for Sq/CC is a go/no-go.

 

Not sure what his record is but if any of you have inconsistent pushes ala “Sq/CC next” on one OPR and receive a “Groom or monitor” on your next OPR you could be in trouble.

 

Don’t sign that next OPR until you schedule an appt with that rater, addl rater or senior rater.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

ATZ though.  ATZ non select feedback is different than IPZ feedback and BPZ feedback.  Maybe they’ve said it’s to be treated the same as IPZ abut it’s not, no matter their newfound ATZ “intent”.  

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13 hours ago, bennynova said:

 

I didn’t think that was possible

I worked at AFPC and it is very possible. Your SR is given instructions on how to extend (or not extend) continuation. 

If a SR elects to deny continuation it's seen as an adverse action (no kidding). I forget what justifications need to be made, but I remember calling a passed over Major and pleading with him to do a mea culpa to his SR...the O-4 had stepped on his crank in a colossal manner and didn't fully realize how much he had poisoned the well.

 

Edited by Pitt4401

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Just to ensure we are all talking about the same thing, the question seemed to be if it was possible to both be non-selected for promotion in you IPZ year and at the same time being forced out before your first 1APZ board??

 

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13 hours ago, Skitzo said:

So the 1/3 DPs ATZ that did not get promoted that I know told me today that the feedback was “inconsistent sq/cc pushes in his record.”

 

FWIW.

 

Push for Sq/CC is a go/no-go.

 

Not sure what his record is but if any of you have inconsistent pushes ala “Sq/CC next” on one OPR and receive a “Groom or monitor” on your next OPR you could be in trouble.

 

Don’t sign that next OPR until you schedule an appt with that rater, addl rater or senior rater.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

No "could" about it.  If you get a Sq/CC push on one OPR, followed by something less than that, it is a signal to the board that you are in the lower half of the strat pool.  Lack of a strat, coupled with a downgrade in job push means you probably won't get promoted.  That's your signal to start hitting up guard units or polishing the resume.    

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To make sure I’m tracking, word on the street is that we must push folks for “Sq/CC” as Majors and if we don’t (and it’s not consistent on their last 2 or 3 OPRs) they will not make Lt Col, regardless of other factors (strats, performance, IDE, etc)?

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2 hours ago, Klepto said:

To make sure I’m tracking, word on the street is that we must push folks for “Sq/CC” as Majors and if we don’t (and it’s not consistent on their last 2 or 3 OPRs) they will not make Lt Col, regardless of other factors (strats, performance, IDE, etc)?

A BAD progression of pushes is not in and of itself a promotion killer, but it certainly affects a mid-grade record.  

There certainly is a secret decoder ring for all of this:

Strats:  looking for Strats in your rank, or as you get higher, Strats in your sq/cc title, etc

opr push lines:  a consistent message of school, sq/CC, and staff pushes is part of the equation.   Being pushed for a majcom or NAF staff is not a good thing. HAF is 70% of us. JT staff is top tier.  

PRF: it needs to match the OPR with those pushes.   

The verbiage of definitely promote is a message.  The check box of definitely promote is obviously the strongest message

a strat amongst board eligibles in PRF is also a message.

 

  

Edited by bennynova
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5 hours ago, bennynova said:

Just to ensure we are all talking about the same thing, the question seemed to be if it was possible to both be non-selected for promotion in you IPZ year and at the same time being forced out before your first 1APZ board??

 

That was my question. I just reengaged with my friend, it seems that in their hasty review of the non-selection paperwork they made some poor assumptions about what it meant. I also did some digging into the AFI, and it looks like continuation becomes a player after your 1APZ. 

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A BAD progression of pushes is not in and of itself a promotion killer, but it certainly affects a mid-grade record.  
There certainly is a secret decoder ring for all of this:
Strats:  looking for Strats in your rank, or as you get higher, Strats in your sq/cc title, etc
opr push lines:  a consistent message of school, sq/CC, and staff pushes is part of the equation.   Being pushed for a majcom or NAF staff is not a good thing. HAF is 70% of us. JT staff is top tier.  
PRF: it needs to match the OPR with those pushes.   
The verbiage of definitely promote is a message.  The check box of definitely promote is obviously the strongest message
a strat amongst board eligibles in PRF is also a message.
 
  


The sad thing is I have seen many commanders who don’t know this or don’t give a . I saw a “#2/xx FGOs” get a MAJCOM push because that was their vector (of which 85% get a MAJCOM vector).
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12 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

only winning move is to not play!

good luck to those who still put up with the AF/AFPC shenanigans!

I hope you cash at the WSOP.

Edited:  People here are not very nice...

Edited by panchbarnes
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10 hours ago, jrizzell said:

That was my question. I just reengaged with my friend, it seems that in their hasty review of the non-selection paperwork they made some poor assumptions about what it meant. I also did some digging into the AFI, and it looks like continuation becomes a player after your 1APZ. 

True. Continuation only comes into play once passed over a second time. First time passed over you won’t see that paperwork. It happens a second time....you’ve got some decisions to make. 

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On 7/13/2019 at 12:21 AM, slc said:

You said it brother. It’s amazing that I can make O5 in the ARC and have no idea what a super P/double DP etc is!!

PRF/APZ/P/DP...it's like an entirely different language.

 

22 hours ago, NKAWTG said:

That's your signal to start hitting up guard units or polishing the resume.    

If this is the only "signal" you see, we don't want you.  

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13 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 


The sad thing is I have seen many commanders who don’t know this or don’t give a . I saw a “#2/xx FGOs” get a MAJCOM push because that was their vector (of which 85% get a MAJCOM vector).

 

This is something I'll never understand.  If 85% get a MAJCOM push, and we're promoting 75% of folks, how can it be seen as such a negative sign by the board?  Surely the guys in that top 15% got a DP and a school slot, right?

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2 hours ago, pawnman said:

This is something I'll never understand.  If 85% get a MAJCOM push, and we're promoting 75% of folks, how can it be seen as such a negative sign by the board?  Surely the guys in that top 15% got a DP and a school slot, right?

The DT vector is used by assignment officers for placement.  The staff push on an OPR is another form of stratification.  Two separate processes that share the same name.  They don't have to agree, or even make sense.  

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The DT vector is used by assignment officers for placement.  The staff push on an OPR is another form of stratification.  Two separate processes that share the same name.  They don't have to agree, or even make sense.  


Correct. But there are commanders out there that [wrongly] think they have to put your vector in the push line.

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