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New Fitness Rules

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If it's a repost feel free to delete, but saw this on AF news and figured it deserved it's own topic.

Source

Twice-a-year PT tests will start in January

Posted : Monday Jun 8, 2009 18:27:35 EDT

Airmen must take the fitness test twice a year starting in January 2010 as part of new servicewide fitness program, officials announced Monday.

The new program also will mandate that all PT tests be given by base “Fitness Assessment Cells” rather than by individual units.

No other details on the new program will released until Wednesday, when Lt. Gen. Richard Newton, deputy chief of staff for manpower and personnel, and Chief Master Sgt. of the Air Force Rodney McKinley will explain the program at length, Air Force spokeswoman Lt. Col. Brenda Campbell said.

Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz and other service four-stars decided what the new program will look like last week at their spring Corona session.

The push for a new program gained momentum after an internal audit released in January found the PT program promotes a “fit to test” culture rather than a “fit to fight” culture, with most airmen gaining weight after taking the PT test.

After the audit was released, Pacific Air Forces commander Gen. Howie Chandler ordered all PT tests to be monitored by staff at the base health and wellness centers instead of fellow airmen.

The Fitness Assessment Cells announced Monday will likewise give responsibility of scoring PT tests to a more objective party.

Pacific Air Forces has seen its PT test failure rate jump from 2 percent to 15 percent since the change. McKinley said in May that he’s afraid the rest of the service will see the same jump in test failures, but the policy changes were important to ensure the test was fair across the service.

Schwartz agreed.

“It is crucial the physical fitness test be applied in a consistent manner across the force,” he said in a news release. “The changes to the testing standards will be clearer and more understandable and provide our airmen with explicit feedback on how they can improve their fitness level.”

This will be the second major change to the service PT program in four years. The service introduced the 1.5-mile run in 2004 as part of its “Fit to Fight” fitness program

Guess we'll all be having fun busting our a$$ twice per year now. Plus, couldn't they have called the new assessment guys something other than FACs??

Edited by nsplayr

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Guest tenguFlyer

I personally for one think its a good thing. Even though I'm not AD yet, and have no idea how annoying this might be for some people, I personally get tired of how some people are able to get past in the Air Force without any physical ability at all. My asthmatic brother can run faster then some of these people and he is barred entry because of his asthma. Unbelievable.

Do I think the test should be changed as well though? Yeah... But the problem is how to adjust it. Making it more upper body focused is just going to make all those trackthletes complain that they are in good shape and hey can't pass it. Anything short of individualized and its going to be tough to please a wide crowd. Ill be interested to hear what the people on AD have to say about this. I would also be interested to hear people in an ops group versus people in a support groups oppinion.

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Guest tenguFlyer

Interesting. Were the squadron PTs regulated workouts or was it more "go to the base gym and do whatever for an hour?" Or any friendly sports games or anything like that? I mean, this kind of reminds me of ROTC though. Anyone who went through it would agree that getting up before dawn for PT was one of the gayer things you had to do in college. But you rarely complained, and when you got there, as long as it wasnt filled with complete retardness, you had a decently good time. Once you are in decent shape, working out for an hour with some bros is not that bad at all. In fact, its actually relaxing and stress relieving.

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Interesting. Were the squadron PTs regulated workouts or was it more "go to the base gym and do whatever for an hour?" Or any friendly sports games or anything like that? I mean, this kind of reminds me of ROTC though. Anyone who went through it would agree that getting up before dawn for PT was one of the gayer things you had to do in college. But you rarely complained, and when you got there, as long as it wasnt filled with complete retardness, you had a decently good time. Once you are in decent shape, working out for an hour with some bros is not that bad at all. In fact, its actually relaxing and stress relieving.

We'd meet in the afternoons around 3 pm (7 or 8 AM if it was too hot in the afternoon). Our commander let us dress for PT however we wanted. No mandatory PT uniforms, just normal personal workout clothes. We'd do a group workout with variations of push ups (lots of reps), situps (or an equivelant exercise), and a 1.5 mile run. After that, we were free to workout however we wanted. Everyone, and I mean everyone, stayed and participated in some sort of a work out. We'd play football, soccer, lift weights, run, bike ride, etc.. It was a culture of fitness our commander decided to instill in our squadron and it stuck. 99% of our squadron personnel passed their PT tests.

Maybe a few commanders out there can inspire their subordinates to be heathier by bringing a culture of fitness into their squadron. God only knows there are more than enough overweight people in the USAF and something needs to be done to get these lard asses off the couch and back to a gym. I think this is a step in the right direction. Let's see what happens...

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When I was at ASBC, the Chief MSgt of the AF came and spoke to us, and one of the points he touched on was the fitness issue. He said that they asked one (or a few) doctors to assess their PT program and especially the waist measurement. He said the doctors came back with the results saying that there is little to no health difference between a 32-36" waist. And the Chief was very understanding of the arguements many of us have regarding the 32" guy scoring better with a 11 minute 1.5 versus the 38" who may run in 9.5 mins. So that being said, he said they're are planning on changing the scoring so that it is appropriately distributed and awarded. He said by this summer (this was back in April he said this) that the new PT program will have it so that 32-36" waist measurements will be given the exact same point value. I don't recall whether he said that points will decrease from 36.5 to 37 and so on versus groups of points values, i.e. 36.5-38" is worth x points. But regardless it sounds as though they finally are finding a way to clear up the issues with the PT scoring system. Whether that wil be implemented this summer or also in Jan of 2010, I dont know. I'm just glad it's being adressed.

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And you can see from the varying opinions on this thread that the PT test will never be something that all of us agree with. Does it need to be 2 times a year? How about three? What about mandatory unit PT? Should commanders decide that or should it be decided at the puzzle palace?

I read AF crimes about a month ago when all this was being discussed and the changes that people wanted ran the gamut from 2 times a year to changing numbers of push-ups/sit-ups req'd to shifting points around to make the run count 60%, etc. Oh, and to add something to the test like the Marines have (an endurance/strength test of sorts), but no, some people wanted a separate endurance/physical test like the Army, IIRC.

Who cares? Set a standard. People will live up to it. Don't make it a cake walk, but damn set it and get on with it. This reminds me of all the d@mn uniform changes. Pick one that isn't :rainbow: and leave it alone.

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I think the biggest thing that is being missed here is the fact that we now have to go take our PT test with some contractor at the HAWC. This shows a lack of trust the AF senior leadership has in thier officers and SNCO's. I am getting tired of the lack of trust that exists in the AF. Why do I have to explain to the A1C in Comm that I need a NIPR net accout? I'm a freaking officer and if I need a NIPR net account, then I need one. But that is the culutre that the AF is breeding.

These PT tests will be monitored to a higher standard than our Form 8 checkrides. Where is the common sense in that? Can you imagine if every check ride had to be given by NAF or Command level Stan/Eval. Better yet, if you needed on twice a year. Sure there are no notice, SAV's and UCI's. Those only check a percentage..a small one for that matter. I would be in favor of a random sample, say 10% of those PT tests due each month have to be monitored by an outside agency. I think that this would get the point across and at the same time show our officers and Sr. NCO's that we are trusted to run something as simple as a PT program

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Lets do some math...For every 1000 people at the base, there is going to be 10 PT tests PER DAY per 1000! (2 per year, 200 work days per year). Rain/Shine/Hot/Cold...Good luck getting your 69 signatures requried to schedule a test...Have you tired to schedule (or cancel) a dental appointment lately. I had to get a MFR from my SQ/CC to get out of a dental appt to go fly because someone kid was sick. This empire is going to get out of control

So to me they are going to need to have at least 4 contractors per base per 1000 Airmen. 1 Supervisor, 1 Male, 1 Female and 1 spare, opposite gender as supervisor so someone can go on leave. Lets pay them on avg 30k per year so now we are up to 120k per base...just to supervise PT tests.

And those numbers are per 1000 Airmen per base, so Nellis watch out!

Assuming that there are only 50% new hires with 50% being already in place it is going to cost the Air Force $4.5mil to implement this program to test the 300k or so Airmen.

Whats the number for the Fraud/Waste/Abuse hotline?

Good on big blue for taking PT seriously, but I can think of 69 better ways to spend 4.5mil dollars. (How about buy my house so when I PCS so I dont have to live in a trailer park when I get to my new base!)

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Everything I have read says that it won't be civilian contractors but will be ran something like the piss test monitor program. Each squadron will give up such and such PTL's for certain time period. Still stupid but not as expensive money wise :)

Straight out of the article, "The new program also will mandate that all PT tests be given by trained civilian proctors in centralized locations called fitness assessment cells."

Now maybe that's not what they meant to say and it is an AF Crimes article, but doesn't sound like sq. PTL's to me. But, hey, that's just me reading the article. Fact is nothing says it has to be a 1 v. 1 assessment. It could be a trained proctor watching as many as let's say 10 people that are paired up. The trained proctor does the weighing and taping and then supervises to look for gross errors in form. Possibly, but the devil is in the details of how this is going to work.

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What is the point of having values below the minimum? If you aren't going to pass anyway, why give them a value?

I believe it is for the notion of having a "75 is passing" mentality...which will only drive more of a fit-to-pass mentality ("what is the minimum I need to pass?")

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I love how the Air Force contradicts itself in the same breathe. On one hand they say, we're switching to having the HAWC test you so that the testers will be more objective and you have to get the form perfect. Then they raise the maximum on the push-ups to the point where you will have to sacrifice form to get the max. If you are to break 90 and go all the way back up until your arms are fully extended there is no way you're going to get 67 good push-ups completed in 1 minute.

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First of all, I could give a flying fuck if the guy doing my travel voucher weighs 300 lbs, or the guy fixing my jet. I care if they can do my voucher or fix my jet. As someone far more eloquent than I (Slacker?) put it, I have yet to see Al Queda challenging me or 98% of the AF to a track meet.

Still, every unit I've been in the PTLs have been the lowest ranking new guys. I've seen opportunity for fairly blatent cheating ("sir how many pushups did you do?" "uh, none yet, I thought I was here to test." "ok, how may are you going to do?" "ok, this is why STEP promotions exist, and take tomorrow off.") At best no one understands the fucking waist measurement, and there is a wide range of what makes an acceptable push up, sit up, etc. And self reporting of run times, the A1C who isn't quite up to busting his Ops Sup, etc.

At the very least, I, just like Gen Chandler who thoughtfully brought all of this upon us, have noticed walking around many bases that there sure are a lot of folks shuffling around that don't look even remotely like they could pass the waist measurement yet somehow the fail rate is/was pretty low. Whether it was cheating, inconsistent standards, or good luck who knows. What PACAF went to, and I assume the AF in general will do 1 Jan, is testing at HAWC by civilians. At Elmo they are actually pretty good dudes, why they choose a life of giving PT tests 8 hours a day I have no idea, hopefully they're well paid.

They criticized some of my push ups, I thought they were full of shit, but they were nice about it and gave me a chance to correct what they called. You can tell they aren't out to hammer anyone, they genuinely want people to do well.

Centralized testing is what it is. At the very least you'll know that everyone is tested to the same standard.

To your question, what's the integrity issue? They are civilians, they don't take the test. All the ones at my base are about 21 and are probably physiology majors and are in good shape, I suspect they wouldn't have much trouble maxing it (as with most of us when we were 21 y/o) if they had to take it. Which they don't.

For the guys talking about pushups in a minute. For me it's easy. I know, aren't I special? Still, the situps, that's f***ing impossible. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I can't seem to do more than 50 a minute, is there a secret I'm missing?

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They are no longer PTLs...their official name is the FAC (Fitness Assessment Cell).

Does anyone know if there are maximum times in between events? I like to knock out my pushups, situps, & run pretty close to each other so that I'm still warmed up. I'm going to pissed if I have to wait a half-hour between shit.

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They are no longer PTLs...their official name is the FAC (Fitness Assessment Cell).

Does anyone know if there are maximum times in between events? I like to knock out my pushups, situps, & run pretty close to each other so that I'm still warmed up. I'm going to pissed if I have to wait a half-hour between shit.

Plan on an hour...

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Just took my PT test under the new centralized testing scheme. Biggest shit show I have ever seen. Not only did they add 2 inches to my waist, they tacked on a whole minute to my run score. I brought that fact up to my worthless civilian proctor who accused me of lying. So I tracked down the person in front and behind me to verify that I finished with that time. The women then had the gall to say she knew she had the wrong score down but didn't do anything to change it. I've never been so mad at a base "agency." Only 8 more years before I can leave this pathetic excuse of an Air Force...

Edited by bucky60k

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I took the test with the new fitness cell in April. I had a female and a dude proctoring my test, neither of whom had a day of military experience prior to this new job.

Overall, I have to say that I was impressed with the experience. Obviously there are going to be shit heads as proctors, as mentioned above somewhere, but the dude and female doing my test were easy going, and knew the rules. I had a few pushups not counted, but I fixed my form and made them up. Is it so bad that people will actually have to do real push-ups and sit-ups now?

They scored my test under both the old and new standards. The run time to max the new version is significantly faster (almost 30 seconds), and you have to do a few more pushups and situps as well. I think this is a good change though because getting a 100 on the old test was pretty freaking easy...compared to other services and compared to the old 500 point test.

I really hope that these new standards trim the fat in the Air Force, literally. Space Command is overrun with fatasses and it's embarrassing that they represent the Air Force to the public.

Plus, if you score a 90 you test once a year. For the first time we are not catering to the least common denominator, and I support that.

EDIT: On the subject of time...tests are averaging 40mins to a little over an hour depending on the number of folks. I don't know what they are doing at Travis. Also, almost 40% of my squadron has failed so far.

Edited by Gravedigger

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Guest RAT 1

New changes & proposed changes from ACC/A1S (Fitness Functional) and Lt Gen Newton (Deputy Chief of Staff for Manpower and Personnel). Just a caveat on the proposed changes, they were verbally told to me by ACC fitness folks in May but it wasn't clear how likely the changes were to be approved. I assume ACC has no waiver authority on weather-related PT standards so obviously it would have to come from Lt Gen Newton.

As of 1 July 10:

If you score 90 w/o exemptions for any portion of the test, you're exempt from fitness testing for a year. In other words, one test a year vice every 6 months.

Proposed changes:

Expand the max Heat Sstress conditions (Wet Bulb Globe Temp) and max Wind Speed. A proposal has been made for the max Wet Bulb temp to be raised 3-5 degrees to allow for more testing days at high temp bases. Same for wind; the max has been proposed to increase 5 mph for both gusts and sustained categories to increase the amount of available testing days in light of testing 2x per year. Proposed changes to Cold Stress conditions weren't mentioned.

Current Standards per AFI 36-2905:

"Consult with base environmental engineering, base weather, or civilian agencies to determine environmental conditions:

A8.2.13. Wind Speed: max wind allowed ≤ 15 mph sustained, ≤ 20 mph gusting.

A8.2.14. Cold Stress: air temperature should be > 32 degrees F with wind ≤ 10 MPH sustained, or air temperature > 40 degrees F with wind ≤ 15 mph sustained, ≤ 20 mph gusting.

A8.2.15. Heat Stress: Wet Bulb Globe Temperature (WBGT) should be < 85 degrees F; or Heat Index < 99 degrees when WBGT is not available."

Also, as was mentioned on this thread earlier, as of 1 Jul 10, if you don't have a GS-4 managed Fitness Assessment Cell in place, Commanders can use PTLs to test as long as they are not testing members of their own unit.

This is a problem at my base as we A) don't have a FAC and B) the WG/CC has adamantly said he doesn't want PTLs to test any more, come 1 July.

Anyone a UFPM? If so, is your base using a web-based sign-up system (i.e. CoP--Community of Practice) for Fitness Testing?

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I keep hearing rumors that they are going to require a PT test once you reach the desert. I tried searching the reg but couldnt really find anything but is there any acclimation time allowed?

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The deployed location I'm at now has a reg in the works to have folks take a "fitness assessment" within 7 days of arrival. As of now there are no penalties for not "passing" the assessment but I can see the proverbial writing on the wall. They also weigh you on the first day you're here and if you have a BMI >30.0 you are on the fat boy program. And there is mandatory PT 3x a week for at least an hour. The EOG is trying to figure out how to balance their mission with the PT requirements. Funny thing is the WG/CC who is implementing this would fail for his push-ups without a doubt in my mind...

BF

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Guest Blu4

In my opinion, there are two major issues with the new FAC administered fitness test. Neither one of them is good for the Air Force in the long run.

1 - In a time when we are overmanned, over budget, and looking at the next version of RIF, we're hiring civilian fitness testers. Why? How on earth can we justify spending the money to expand the civilian AF workforce when we are looking to find ways to reduce the number of uniformed airmen? These folks do not deploy, cannot fill combat billets, and do not reduce the mission workload for uniformed service members. How on earth can we justify spending the money to stand up and operate these FACs at this juncture?

2 - Essentially, the AF has stated it does not sufficiently trust its uniformed service members to measure their fitness. Now I know there will be a slew of folks who start talking about out-of-shape AF personnel, etc., how the old system let some folks through, blah blah blah. Yes. I admit that probably did occur. However, in my opinion, it should be the responsibility of the unit commander to ensure his personnel meet the required standards. Ultimately, the unit commander should have the right to make the final call. By removing this responsibility from the commander and assigning it to a third party, it effectively says the AF doesn't trust commander's to make the right call. And THAT, I think, is a tremendous failure of our leadership system. I also think it's a symptom of other, larger problems.

Take a look around, and see how little influence/decision making ability a squadron commander actually has these days. Across the board, Sq/CCs are losing more and more of their authority, responsibility, and leadership. The job has effectively been made into a middle manager, administrative position. I think that's pretty tragic.

I'm sure many will disagree.

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New changes & proposed changes from ACC/A1S (Fitness Functional) and Lt Gen Newton (Deputy Chief of Staff for Manpower and Personnel). Just a caveat on the proposed changes, they were verbally told to me by ACC fitness folks in May but it wasn't clear how likely the changes were to be approved. I assume ACC has no waiver authority on weather-related PT standards so obviously it would have to come from Lt Gen Newton.

As of 1 July 10:

If you score 90 w/o exemptions for any portion of the test, you're exempt from fitness testing for a year. In other words, one test a year vice every 6 months.

Proposed changes:

Expand the max Heat Sstress conditions (Wet Bulb Globe Temp) and max Wind Speed. A proposal has been made for the max Wet Bulb temp to be raised 3-5 degrees to allow for more testing days at high temp bases. Same for wind; the max has been proposed to increase 5 mph for both gusts and sustained categories to increase the amount of available testing days in light of testing 2x per year. Proposed changes to Cold Stress conditions weren't mentioned.

Current Standards per AFI 36-2905:

Also, as was mentioned on this thread earlier, as of 1 Jul 10, if you don't have a GS-4 managed Fitness Assessment Cell in place, Commanders can use PTLs to test as long as they are not testing members of their own unit.

This is a problem at my base as we A) don't have a FAC and B) the WG/CC has adamantly said he doesn't want PTLs to test any more, come 1 July.

Anyone a UFPM? If so, is your base using a web-based sign-up system (i.e. CoP--Community of Practice) for Fitness Testing?

Currently at our base our UFPM's have to make the appointment for us to test. The biggest problem is the low number of civilians running the tests, and people being turned down to test...this has resulted in our squadron and wing having multiple people com overdue for tests. Some cases are people waiting until the last minute to test, but most cases are our deployers returning (who cannot test during deployments BS!) With the implementation of the 6 month testing, they are going to have to give it another look for deployed members.

Our Wing implemented the civilian testing about a year ago and we have had the same results as most of the other posts (multiple failures, push up discrepancies, bad run times due to testers recording the times wrong or not paying attention, and poor waste measurements. I personally am not a fan. Once the PTL's were brought back to help proctor the quality of testing became much better.

It sucks for people that the standards are "harder" but its time to cut the fat, get in shape, and unfortunately deal with the standard. It does not look like it is going to change anytime soon.

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Guest RAT 1
Currently at our base our UFPM's have to make the appointment for us to test. The biggest problem is the low number of civilians running the tests, and people being turned down to test...this has resulted in our squadron and wing having multiple people com overdue for tests. Some cases are people waiting until the last minute to test, but most cases are our deployers returning (who cannot test during deployments BS!) With the implementation of the 6 month testing, they are going to have to give it another look for deployed members.

During Fitness Assessments (tests), is your base holding to a "12 members to 1 FAC" ratio? In the draft "FAC Implementation Guide" that some UFPMs/Fitness Centers got back in May, there was verbiage that says something to the effect of "Recommended ratio for each FA (Fitness Assessment) is 12 members to 1 FAC staff." This means, to me, they can't hammer me on a UCI if I use a 24 to 1 ratio vice the "recommended" 12 to 1 ratio b/c it's not a regulation or mandate but rather a recommendation. This slight modification is something we'll be "recommending" to the local wing/CCs & installation commander to adapt our program to allow for surge or bulk-testing.

One big factor with these civilian FACs is that they are basically all GS-4s (some large bases of 7.5K+ personnel have a GS-5 "Lead FAC" position). This encourages a very high & often rapid turnover for folks desperate to get "into the system" and move up as quickly as possible. We've hired 3 FACs of our 5 authorized, 2 of which have accepted higher grade positions within 90 days of being hired. That being said, many bases will feel the pain when they only have one trained FAC for several months and they're reduced to testing 12 members per 2 hour testing block.

So to address this issue, you either tell all the unit/CCs to keep a certain baseline number of trained PTLs at all times so they can augment the FAC staff when necessary or you increase the ratio to allow the FAC staff to test more people at one time, going against the "recommended" 12 to 1 ratio set forth by HAF/A1.

So even though this was initially sold to Commanders, in part, as a way to alleviate additional duty time that took PTLs away from their workcenters...the program will still remain reliant upon the use of PTLs at several bases. Plus it will add another centralized and therefore comparatively limited layer of scheduling as unit UFPMs will now have to access an FSS-managed website to schedule PT tests whenever the FSS offers them instead of having the flexibility of scheduling PT tests within their own unit's shift schedules, etc...

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Scheduling is the real nightmare...

Why are we worried about testing on deployments? You're already there, if you can't hack the job doing a PT test isn't going to prove anything they don't already know.

Our base moved run locations because the reserve bubbas were having groups of 50 run with one person watching them - when the first person finished, wthe next time a person crossed the line they finished too - even if they only did two or three 1/4 mile laps...

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I just took the PT test this morning and that thing is a blatant FWA case. It took three hours to do the test with the PTL's administering it for 30 people. It took over an hour just to record the scores and have us sign our sheets. Maybe it was my grader but they seemed like total doucher's too. I asked the guy to count by 5's and he said "No, but i'll tell you the ones that don't count". If anything get more people to grade from the gym staff. It's not like it takes a lot of effort to hand out towels or wipe down the equipment, and i'm sure it'll still be waiting for them after they're done.

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Thread revival.

Here at my base, they are holding the run inside due to the winter weather. No big deal right? Only if you don't mind running 24 laps around the b-ball court in the gym. It doesn't seem right or even safe to me. When I took the test in the late summer, we didn't run on the track or around a 1.5 mile course. Instead we did a 1.5 mile shuttle run (four 0.375 mile legs) thats on a slight incline. No kidding, you ran, touched a white line, then ran back to the start/finish line. I'm fairly certain that in both tests, you'll loose significant time. My run time was about 20 seconds slower than my average times I had been running in the months leading up to my test. The stop/start thing was murder. And my knees are not looking forward to the "basketball court NASCAR challenge".

Does it specify in the regs on how the run is supposed to be administered?

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