Advice on running/jogging

[brabus]

Do they teach you exactly what you need to know,

Absolutely. UPT is not a program designed to make people fail, it's designed to take practically anyone and teach them how to fly, provided that person has the drive to do something like that. You mostly won't gain any edge b/c you honestly will not get a level of understanding of the subjects prior to UPT. You may think you're smart, have good insight on aviation, etc...but trust me, you'll understand the material 69 times better after being taught it at UPT, then studying. All of the studying/learning time is built into UPT, it's not like they give you no time...you'll spend countless hours in academics/CAIs. I will personally pay you 1 million bucks if you read the 217 and -1 through prior to UPT and then honestly tell me at the end that you had an edge and did much better as a result of such. And if you did end up being an idiot and telling me that, I'd just have to kick you in the nuts for lying. Seriously, go have fun, relax and drink beer...the studying and learning will come soon enough.

[Toasty]

One word is all you need to know for a good workout if you're short on time: CrossFit. This program is pure gold here at UPT.

One more vote for Crossfit. I just started doing it not too long ago, looks like a great program.

[Mambo]

Sorry to thread hijack a bit here but I figured this would be a good post to ask a question. I'm looking for a good running shoe that will support my flat feet and bad knees. Something in the $80 to $100 price range.

[Guest bravodelta79]

Sorry to thread hijack a bit here but I figured this would be a good post to ask a question. I'm looking for a good running shoe that will support my flat feet and bad knees. Something in the $80 to $100 price range.

Cross Fit - Check the site daily to see it, but do more cardio training for other reasons. Looks great though.

Shoes - I use the Adidas Cushion. Great shoe and highly rated on many running sites for years. I have wide feet and these are great.

[Guest Grey]

I don't know what your location is, but if you're looking for something that fits YOU then you should go to a specialized running store. They'll make you do a whole lot of goofy shit and they'll watch the way you walk/run and get you something that works. Hopefully, there is something like that in your location. You might have to go a bit beyond $100, say $120? Just depends on the shoe. Good luck.

[pawnman]

I know some folks aren't fans of the treadmill, but in TX in July, running outside is brutal. I've been doing 2 miles on the treadmill, 3 days a week. Each time I go, I bump the pace on the treadmill up one more notch. I started about a month ago at a 9:30 mile pace, and I'm up to a 7:45 mile pace. My goal is to run a sub-11 on my next PFT (due in Nov, so I have some time).

[Guest sweethomeco]

Sorry to thread hijack a bit here but I figured this would be a good post to ask a question. I'm looking for a good running shoe that will support my flat feet and bad knees. Something in the $80 to $100 price range.

Go to roadrunnersports.com, and you can search for shoes for flat arches and what type of pronation you have (how your foot strikes the ground when running). If you're not sure how your foot strikes, look at your last pair of running shoes and see where the wear is on the bottom of the shoe. If your shoes have more wear on the inside, then you are an over-pronator and need motion control shoes. If you are an under-pronator, then you are striking the outside of the foot and not rolling to the inside enough - you need flexibility/ neutral cushioned shoes.

Flat footed people are typically over-pronators, but look at your wear and tear of the shoe to see. If you sign up for a VIP account with roadrunnersports, you get free return shipping and you can send shoes back within 60 days for a full refund, no matter the wear and tear. Great deal for people who can't get to running stores for an analysis of their running gait.

[Guest ElRoy]

I know some folks aren't fans of the treadmill, but in TX in July, running outside is brutal. I've been doing 2 miles on the treadmill, 3 days a week. Each time I go, I bump the pace on the treadmill up one more notch. I started about a month ago at a 9:30 mile pace, and I'm up to a 7:45 mile pace. My goal is to run a sub-11 on my next PFT (due in Nov, so I have some time).

I know it sucks - but you would actually benifit more from running more miles. I would reccommend getting comfortable with one run of at least 5 miles. And then one faster day (you do not need to do intervals), just run hard for 20 minutes.

It may seem counter-intuituve but most people will not improve their run time by just running faster 3-4 days a week -- you gotta have miles.

I would reccomend you do a one mile time trail, get your time and plug it into this website -- http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

It will give you your training paces and then look through there for how to apply them.

Also, check out www.runnersworld.com, they have a forum. If you search for PFT or PT you will find a ton of hits on it.

Good luck.

[yerfer]

I know some will disagree, but I have seen much better results through sprint training. The long distance stuff can really tear up your shins, knees, and feet (yes even with good running shoes). Short distance is not only more intense, It'll help you build up a stronger lung capacity. Long distance running can get really boring if you don't have good scenery or someone motivating to push you through the bore of it all. Sprinting only requires a short distance and a short amount of time. You will be spent if you push yourself hard enough.

Try sprint training and see how your long distance time cuts down. You should notice a difference in over all time.

For a while in rotc pt we had people suffering to even finish the 1.5 mile run and as soon as sprint laps got in the training, people weren't just finishing the runs, they were coming out with good scores and better bodies. Can't argue with what works... Plus, can we even consider the AF PFT a "long distance run"?

Is it just me, or does running on a tread mill indoors make you feel really disoriented and dizzy once your finished?

[Guest ElRoy]

The long distance stuff can really tear up your shins, knees, and feet (yes even with good running shoes). Short distance is not only more intense, It'll help you build up a stronger lung capacity. Long distance running can get really boring if you don't have good scenery or someone motivating to push you through the bore of it all. Sprinting only requires a short distance and a short amount of time. You will be spent if you push yourself hard enough.

Try sprint training and see how your long distance time cuts down. You should notice a difference in over all time.

For a while in rotc pt we had people suffering to even finish the 1.5 mile run and as soon as sprint laps got in the training, people weren't just finishing the runs, they were coming out with good scores and better bodies. Can't argue with what works... Plus, can we even consider the AF PFT a "long distance run"?

Is it just me, or does running on a tread mill indoors make you feel really disoriented and dizzy once your finished?

Not going to get into a pissing match with you on this one. The reason someone would get injured from running longer distances is that they are not ready for them yet. You have to build up. Some reccommend increasing no more than 10% of you total mileage pre week. So if you run 6 miles a week, don't go and throw in an extra 2 miles this week.

But realize that all you are accomplishing by running "sprints" or doing indian runs or whatever is equal to what legit runners call "repitition" training. It is used to teach muscle memory. In other words, it teaches your legs to turn over at a faster rate. You do not increase your bodies ability to run faster or hold that speed for longer, it just makes you more comfortable and slightly more efficient at a pace you can already run.

IF folks insist on doing any type of speedwork, without the proper base, you are actually entering into a world that entails a lot more risk than running at an easy or even brisk pace for up to 5 miles.

And again, IF folks insist on speed training I would break down speed training into two broad catagories - Interval training (or VO2 training) and Aerobic Threshold Training.

With both types you need to warmup, at least 1/2 a mile.

VO2 training - running intervals of 3-8 minutes at approximately your 3k to 5k pace (look at that McMillan Calc I posted to get your paces), followed by a rest period of 50-90% the amount of time the interval lasted.

So for example - doing 1200 meter intervals in 4:13 (in may case) or about a 5:37/mile pace. I would then follow that up with 3:30 of active rest (not standing and waiting - that causes blood to pool in your legs and they do not stay fresh = you are boned on the next one) by jogging around the track at about an 8:00 pace. I would start with 3 intervals and work up to 6 with decreasing rest periods.

This type of training is only to be done once per week (maybe) if you have the endurance base to support it. If not, well you probably are gonna shit out before you get the benifits from it, but you will be tired!

Aerobic Threshold Training - Running at the pace that (theoretically for a lot of folks) you could hold for an hour. This equates to your 12k to 1/2 marathon race pace. You start out at 20 minutes and work up as needed for the event you are training for. You need a good warmup and then take off, building up to a hard pace (not Mile and Half race pace!!!) and hold that, work your way back down and cool down. Do this once a week. For me I tend to do longer "Tempo" runs, so I would warmup for 2 miles, run 4 or 5 around a 6:20 pace, then cool down for 2 miles.

The other option is to do longer intervals - 1200m up to 2.5 miles, depending on your training and goals, at your half marathon pace (or slightly faster for the shorter intervals) and then rest for a very short amount of time. My example - would be 4-6 x 1600m (1 Mile) at around a 6:15 pace with 1 minute between.

If you do not want to do this on a track, it would be benificial to run by time to - I usually do 4-5 x 5 minutes or 2-3 x 10 minutes with either 1 or 2 minutes rest between. The big thing is that you run at the correct pace.

BOTTOM LINE - If you do not have the endurance to accumulate enough time in the specific training speed or zone - you will not get better, but you will sweat alot and be really tired.

SAMPLE SCHEDULE -

Run 3 days a week

First 4 weeks -

Run 1 - 3 miles EZ

Run 2 - 2 Miles moderately hard

Run 3 - 3 miles, working up to 5 miles

Next 4 weeks -

Run 1 - Warmup, then run 2-3 miles at Tempo pace (see the McMillan Calc)

Run 2 - Warmup, then do 4-6 x 1/2 mile (800m) with a 1/4 mile (400m) jog in between

Run 3 - 5 Miles EZ

I would of course reccommend running more days a week, but this will accomplish the most basic goal of passing.

As far as getting injured,

1. Don't be a fat ass (if you are carrying 20 extra pounds, of course you are doing to get injured)

2. Take your time (if you have not run since your last PFT, then you might be a little out of shape)

3. Go to a REAL running store (Payless and WalMart do not count) and get fitted for shoes - if they look at you funny then walk out.

A good running store should encourage you to try different brands and let you take them outside the store and run with them

[pawnman]

I know some will disagree, but I have seen much better results through sprint training. The long distance stuff can really tear up your shins, knees, and feet (yes even with good running shoes). Short distance is not only more intense, It'll help you build up a stronger lung capacity. Long distance running can get really boring if you don't have good scenery or someone motivating to push you through the bore of it all. Sprinting only requires a short distance and a short amount of time. You will be spent if you push yourself hard enough.

Try sprint training and see how your long distance time cuts down. You should notice a difference in over all time.

For a while in rotc pt we had people suffering to even finish the 1.5 mile run and as soon as sprint laps got in the training, people weren't just finishing the runs, they were coming out with good scores and better bodies. Can't argue with what works... Plus, can we even consider the AF PFT a "long distance run"?

Is it just me, or does running on a tread mill indoors make you feel really disoriented and dizzy once your finished?

No problems on the treadmill.

ElRoy, I don't think I have the motivation to run a marathon, and that's what your training schedule looks like to me. I'm not looking to increase my endurance much beyond finishing a 1.5 mile in a decent amount of time. I have less than zero interest in running 5k's on the weekends. I get what you're saying, that you have to run longer to build endurance...maybe I'll toss in a longer run once a week, at a little slower pace than my normal routine. But dear god, running a 1/2 marathon? No thanks. I have a hard enough time keeping to my own little workout schedule.

[Guest ElRoy]

Same principles apply. Do what you wish - they are your results.

If you stay on the treadmill check out this link.

http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php

Big take away that most people do not know is that you need to have about a 1% incline no it to be accurate to outside factors (air resistance, etc)

[OregonHerc]

^ Good advice. Running plans are generally the same no matter what you are training for, the weekly mileage is just different. I've trained for anything from a 5K to a marathon, and they all follow the same training cycle.

[zach braff]

I'll second anyone who mentioned crossfit and intervals. I just upped my PT score from mid 80s to 100 in less than six months. Dropped from a 36 waist to a 31.5 and dropped my run from 11:15 to 9:33. While I've always been in decent shape even when I'd really hit the gym hard either on weights or running I never saw a ton of improvement in run time. I've been eating better, but by no means have I "dieted." Just laid off the late nite snacks and started eating breakfast religiously.

I got into crossfit in Baghdad this winter. That combined with some interval training literally changed my world. I didn't even realize the improvement until I took a practice PT test a couple weeks ago after coming home. I thought "oh sh-t someone must have screwed up the timer." Nope. So I took an official one the week after and scored a perfect.

If any gyms near you offer crossfit or if you can get a few buds together to do it you'll be set. Its tough to do alone because it sucks so much you'll want to give up, but you'll be unstoppable if you stick to it.

Good luck.

zb

[MilitaryToFinance]

Does anybody use other sports to train their cardio instead of running? I get bored out of my mind running, whether its on a treadmill, a track, the street, music or not. I know its a mental thing but I feel good after lifting and like shit after running. I was looking at taking up boxing or muay thai since I know they require a lot of cardio but the training is more than just simply running all the time. Anybody else do this? Obviously swimming would be good but you can't just go join a swim team somewhere but with the boxing I would have others to help keep me pushing myself. The crossfit seems pretty popular from the responses in this thread.

[Masshole]

For the past three runs I have been getting a very strange feeling in the back of my calf about halfway between my knee and ankle. The sensation is worse when I have to go up stairs. I have not changed my pace, distance, nor shoes but I did change the course I run. The course I used for the last 6 months had a lot of hills so I could do different intervals at different inclines, but my new course is comparatively planate. That seems to be the only thing I can think of that is different. We run on our school's track for PT, so I should be accustomed to the lack of incline, right? Has anyone ever had experience like this? The sensation in my calf does not really hurt, but it does affect how I walk.

[Jughead]

my new course is comparatively planate.

Masshole, sorry I can't help with the running question. I just wanted to preserve the above so, the next time someone asks you to prove you're a geeky engineer, you can just point them toward this post. Far more than any sheepskin you may earn, using language like that guarantees you recognition & acceptance in the engineer community...!

[Guest Grind]

Are you landing heel-toe or on your forefoot? My calves cry like bitches when I run forefoot but that's because your muscle is working harder than it usually does when you run heel-toe or just walking around. It might just be your calf muscle getting over worked. Do you stretch before/after your yog?

Not a doctor, but I play one on late night TV.

[Striper_WSO]

Achilles tendinitis? Sounds like it is too high in the leg, but it might be. I've had this condition and it sucks. Only solution is to stop running for awhile.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002067/

[Catbox]

For the past three runs I have been getting a very strange feeling in the back of my calf about halfway between my knee and ankle. The sensation is worse when I have to go up stairs. I have not changed my pace, distance, nor shoes but I did change the course I run. The course I used for the last 6 months had a lot of hills so I could do different intervals at different inclines, but my new course is comparatively planate. That seems to be the only thing I can think of that is different. We run on our school's track for PT, so I should be accustomed to the lack of incline, right? Has anyone ever had experience like this? The sensation in my calf does not really hurt, but it does affect how I walk.

MH...

I'm about a 25 mile a week runner thus I've had every manner of injury which I thought were inevitable. However about six months ago I switched to one of the "minimalist" shoes that are everywhere now (Vibram Five Fingers, Merrel Trail Glove, Brooks) etc... and although the transition was rough, I have been injury free since. You have to retrain your stride but I am convinced that the natural running motion has been key. I don’t think it’s a 100% cure all for everyone but It might be worth trying out.

I tried several on but decided on the Merrel Trail Glove

http://www.merrell.com/US/en-US/Product.mvc.aspx/22875M/50390/Mens/Barefoot-Run-Trail-Glove

[Guest Grind]

MH...

I'm about a 25 mile a week runner thus I've had every manner of injury which I thought were inevitable. However about six months ago I switched to one of the "minimalist" shoes that are everywhere now (Vibram Five Fingers, Merrel Trail Glove, Brooks) etc... and although the transition was rough, I have been injury free since. You have to retrain your stride but I am convinced that the natural running motion has been key. I don’t think it’s a 100% cure all for everyone but It might be worth trying out.

I tried several on but decided on the Merrel Trail Glove

http://www.merrell.c...Run-Trail-Glove

These too. I have them and love them. Reebok Realflex

[Masshole]

using language like that guarantees you recognition & acceptance in the engineer community...!

...but I am a physics/applied mathematics major. We could never get along.

Are you landing heel-toe or on your forefoot? My calves cry like bitches when I run forefoot but that's because your muscle is working harder than it usually does when you run heel-toe or just walking around. It might just be your calf muscle getting over worked. Do you stretch before/after your yog?

Not a doctor, but I play one on late night TV.

I have never run heel-toe and I do stretch before and after. Maybe I should stretch more, but I do not know why it would be more painful after a flatter course than after hills.

Achilles tendinitis? Sounds like it is too high in the leg, but it might be. I've had this condition and it sucks. Only solution is to stop running for awhile.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....lth/PMH0002067/

Yeah, seems a little low but it cites muscles not being stretched out. This could be the root of something if I am not stretching properly for the new terrain.

MH...

I'm about a 25 mile a week runner thus I've had every manner of injury which I thought were inevitable. However about six months ago I switched to one of the "minimalist" shoes that are everywhere now (Vibram Five Fingers, Merrel Trail Glove, Brooks) etc... and although the transition was rough, I have been injury free since. You have to retrain your stride but I am convinced that the natural running motion has been key. I don’t think it’s a 100% cure all for everyone but It might be worth trying out.

I tried several on but decided on the Merrel Trail Glove

http://www.merrell.c...Run-Trail-Glove

I use these and these. Never had an injury with either (well, with the Nimbus 12, not 13). I used to have to run barefoot for training before lacrosse, but I do not think I could do that over the distances I do now. Especially in and near a large city. I need a little more structure than Vibrams.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Masshole

[Jughead]

...but I am a physics/applied mathematics major. We could never get along.

Oh, my bad. Much less geeky....

[afnav]

I'd be interested in anyone training to run after they have their great toe joint pinned. I'm getting it done in three weeks, and the doctor tells me that some people can run half-marathons after they heal.

[TreeA10]

I asked a friend of mine, who happens to be an Orthopedic Surgeon, about running. His advice is don't do it and has made a very, very good living replacing knees and hips of ex-runners.