Military rank structure

[Guest pltmk]

Who in the enlisted catagory does a second liutenant out rank? What about first liutenant/

[Guest HueyPilot]

Second and First Lieutenants are both commissioned officers, and all commissioned officers outrank all enlisted and warrant officer folks.

[Guest AirGuardian]

From low to high with pics, check this site out.

http://www.kensmen.com/findinggramps/rank.html

-Good Day!

[Guest AirGuardian]

Yeah, I said that too once... Kinda went like this!

Me answering the telephone:

Capt Blankety Blank!

Yeah, this is Capt John Parker - I was wondering if Colonel Johnson was available?

Me - Sorry Johnny, he ain't been around for a couple of hours - guess I could give'm your number if ya want?

Yeah, That's Capt Parker of the U.S. NAVY!!!

Whoops, sorry CAPTAIN/Colonel whatever...dammit - didn't see that com'n...

Ahhhh, the active duty days --- makes for some good stories!

[ 01 March 2004, 07:06: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

[M2]

Yeah, but going onto NAS Jax with a USAF ID card that said 'captain' on it was always a hoot! Wanted to park in 'CAPT' slots at the NX, but thought I shouldn't press my luck.

Cheers! M2

[Guest AirGuardian]

Now you're bringing back some memories. I was a San Jose State Grad and went to Onizuka and NAS Moffet Field, CA all the time. Always got a salute when entering the base before the 100% ID checks. With the Navy Style AF ROTC rank(AS300/400 rank) it was waaay to easy to abuse the situation, although I didn't... and that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

[Riddller]

Yeah, had a Marine Capt. buddy of mine w/ a friend at the Naval Academy. He'd call up the quarter deck to talk to his buddy and identify himself as "Captain Blankety-blank" wanting to talk to Midshipman So-and-so. That sure sent the Midshipman who answered the phone running!

[Guest pltmk]

how can a second luitenant outrank the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force

[Riddller]

That's just the way it is in all the services! Now, if you were a 2nd Lt. and tried to order ANYONE around with more than a bunch of chevrons, (E-7,8, or 9, or some WO's) they'd probably tell you to go pound sand, even though you are in the right in being able to give them orders. In other words, know your place in the "real" pecking order as well as the "virtual" one!!!

[M2]

Easy, commissioned officers outrank all noncommissioned officers (NCOs). Optimally, the officer will respect the NCO's experience, and the NCO will respect the officer's authority. It is called mutual respect.

Don't get wrapped around the axle about this, when you start your accession training (AFROTC, OTS, USAFA, whatever), they will explain this (and a whole lot of other things) to you.

By the way, the first Saudi lieutenant I met (waaaaay back in 1981 when I was a mere slicksleeve just out of basic) scared the shit out of me because he had stars on his shoulders, and I only knew that to mean one thing... Of course back then I also got hammered because we were told at basic that only officers wore shoulderboards, but the AF had just came out with shoulderboards for the top three NCO ranks. Guess who was the first person to salute a SNCO?!?

Cheers! M2

[POKESC17]

Max,

reminds me of when I was graduating boot camp back in 95 except I got to watch it. My dad is a Chief and of course was decked out for my graduation. Well after we were done and on base lib he must have gotten saluted by everyother BMT trainee we passed. He was cool about it though. Just let them know that he worked for a living and to look a little closer next time. Still get a chuckle out of that.

[Guest priorE]

Just let them know that he worked for a living and to look a little closer next time

I've heard that one, too! When I was a SrA, I was stationed at NAS Sigonella on TDY....Their NCO's wear the khakis (like the officers do) as well as shiny anchors or something on their flight cap. Well, I saluted lots of Navy NCO's who in turn said that they work for a living!

[Bergman]

You've also got to watch out for the "Phone Colonel". When I was working @ the pentagon, I used to get calls all the time from guys who would start the conversation with, "This is 'colonel' so-and-so and I need you to get me _whatever_ RIGHT AWAY". Come to find out, after checking the Global Address list, they're only a Lt Col trying to get something past you. Yah..whatever buddy. I'll see your O-5 and raise you two O-6s and an O-7!

[Insubordinate & Churlish]

So it's not exactly USAF Flying, but it's better than starting a new thread and getting dropkicked by Toro:

I'm an A1C. My CC, knowing I want to be a pilot after I get my degree, takes me over to Ops to talk to the OG/CC and some other pilots. OG/CC and said pilots introduce themselves as "John" instead of "Lt. Col. Doe" or "Captain Doe."

How do I refer to them in later encounters?

[slacker]

So it's not exactly USAF Flying, but it's better than starting a new thread and getting dropkicked by Toro:

I'm an A1C. My CC, knowing I want to be a pilot after I get my degree, takes me over to Ops to talk to the OG/CC and some other pilots. OG/CC and said pilots introduce themselves as "John" instead of "Lt. Col. Doe" or "Captain Doe."

How do I refer to them in later encounters?

Stay with Lt Col Doe or Capt Doe until they tell you otherwise. Always error on the side of caution.

[M2]

Even better, always stick with Lt Col Doe or Capt Doe...

And props to your CC for taking the initiative and taking you over to the OG. You have a long road ahead of you, but at least he is starting you out on the right foot!

Cheers! M2

[Guest Cap-10]

So it's not exactly USAF Flying, but it's better than starting a new thread and getting dropkicked by Toro:

I'm an A1C. My CC, knowing I want to be a pilot after I get my degree, takes me over to Ops to talk to the OG/CC and some other pilots. OG/CC and said pilots introduce themselves as "John" instead of "Lt. Col. Doe" or "Captain Doe."

How do I refer to them in later encounters?

You can never go wrong with "Sir"

Cap-10

[pawnman]

I've heard that one, too! When I was a SrA, I was stationed at NAS Sigonella on TDY....Their NCO's wear the khakis (like the officers do) as well as shiny anchors or something on their flight cap. Well, I saluted lots of Navy NCO's who in turn said that they work for a living!

I saluted a few as a 2Lt at Pensacola. Sometimes it's hard to tell if that's an anchor or an oak leaf from a distance.

[Herk Mafia]

I did get called out once by a 1LT when I was a 2LT for not saluting him. What a douche.

[HuggyU2]

I did get called out once by a 1LT when I was a 2LT for not saluting him. What a douche.

Maybe "a douche" for pointing it out.

But bad form on you for not saluting him.

[zrooster99]

But bad form on you for not saluting him.

Disagree.

[HuggyU2]

Disagree.

Disagree all you want, ZRooster, but military tradition shoudn't go the way of "hey dude, yo,..." It's not YOUR call to decide whether YOU will comply with the tradition or not. And the tradition is that you salute officers senior to you. So, what's "your criteria"? Got to be a field grade officer before you'll salute them?? Or should an A1C salute an O-1??

This isn't some "new" tradition in the American military. It goes back,... oh, many, many decades.

And I'm sure someone will tell me about how their pappy was in Korea, and he said 1Lt's weren't worth saluting. That's their opinion. But it's not our military culture. And if you don't like the culture, then you should find a new vocation.

What, exactly, is it that chaps so many people's asses about saluting an O-2? Don't get me wrong,... I've heard this discussion for years. I'm not trying poke you in the eye, but remember it's not about US. It's about our service to the Uniformed Services. And there's a rank structure. Just like there was when a 1Lt in WWII decided to take his crew (with a 2Lt co-pilot) into harm's way.

I, for one, did not say a word if I wasn't saluted by an O-2, when I was an O-1. But you can be sure I salute each and every senior officer I come across. And I enjoy doing it. It's my professional greeting to them. Do you find it demeaning?? If so, you are missing the point.

John Levitow died a few years ago,... but I saluted him when I met him. He was an enlisted man, and I was an officer. And I have great respect for him. Don't know who he is? Your loss. However, although I admired him, I followed military tradition,... it wasn't about "me" deciding who I would salute and who I wouldn't. That's not the military way. It might be what they teach at liberal colleges,... but it doesn't serve us well in the military.

I've seen O-9's salute their buddy who was an O-10. I think you can deal with saluting an O-2 if you're a 2Lt.

And if you can't, then reconsider your "calling".

[Guest Boom]

John Levitow died a few years ago,... but I saluted him when I met him. He was an enlisted man, and I was an officer. And I have great respect for him. Don't know who he is? Your loss. However, although I admired him, I followed military tradition,... it wasn't about "me" deciding who I would salute and who I wouldn't. That's not the military way. It might be what they teach at liberal colleges,... but it doesn't serve us well in the military.

How about you saluted him based on the fact he was awarded a medal that 99% of the people here will never be awarded and required to be saluted. And I agree with your post 100%, however you must be a USAFA grad. From my short eight years in the military USAFA grads (especially rated ones) are the worst at military customs.

[HuggyU2]

How about you saluted him based on the fact he was awarded a medal that 99% of the people here will never be awarded and required to be saluted. And I agree with your post 100%, however you must be a USAFA grad. From my short eight years in the military USAFA grads (especially rated ones) are the worst at military customs.

Yes, I saluted him because that is the Military Tradition for someone who wears the CMH.

And, for the record, I was commissioned through ROTC at the University of Texas. I'm certainly no poster child for the perfect drill team-like military customs guy, but I do think it's worthwhile, and do not blow it off.

[Guest CAVEMAN]

Does AF not have the 1 bar rule(Warrants included). Well, in the USMC as long as you are a one bar, you are all dudes and gals. No one cares whether you are a 1stLt or 2ndLt. In fact try and pull that one on someone and see how loud they will laugh at you. This is not to say you are being disrespectful, but no one is making an issue. Had a guy ones call up to my shop and introduces himself as 1stLt. blah, I laughed at him over the phone. The next time he called, he kept is short Lt. blah. The warrants would not really call you Sir, until you pick Capt.

Chill out dude, you probably only got commissioned a few months before the guy and now you are giving him hell for nothing. You are both still Lt's and who really gives a crap.

Don't get me wrong, I give the proper greeting of the day at all times. I will even return a salute to even the newest private. But check this out, had an E-9 walk pass a Captain at a DFAC at one of the middle eastern locations. Captain stop E-9 and asked him if he missed something, E-9 played a fool. Before the 0-3 continued with the conversation, put the E-9 in parade rest!! Trust me, you let shit that thing fly and they think they can walk all over you.

As a young guy checking-in into a new unit, you kind of have to be assertive, you cannot be timid like the ROTC kid that you are. They see that sh!t the moment you walk in and you are done. Yes, you can be assertive without being an a$$. Because you are the new guy and don't know shit does not give an E-8 the right to walk all over you. And trust me, if he was worth anything he will not hesitate the respect your billet and rank.

Cave out