CSAR-X

[Guest]

History says you are wrong.

Really? What high threat environments even exist today? I know there was no plan to send helos into the last high threat environment we faced...25 years ago.

[Breckey]

That was more a mismanagement of the core csar mission during the 80s

[JSChmed]

Finally, despite what the rescue community trains to, anybody who thinks a CFACC in his right mind would send an asset into anything higher than a moderate threat environment without some sort of escort is sorely mistaken.

.

High threat to whom? High threat for a fighter is not necessarily high threat for a helo. Things that would drive a high threat for a helo wouldn't even make it onto the map for some fighters. We have crossed borders unescorted to recover people. If the capability exists, the cfacc has a range of options.

Edited October 29, 2012 by JSChmed

[busdriver]

Really? What high threat environments even exist today?

I blew over that intentionally, maybe at the detriment of my point. In recent history the helos have been cleared to execute while the escort fighters have been told to stand down. I'm not sure of the timeline, but it was around the same time that you lead the effort to pickup the F-14 crew in OIF.

[Guest]

Roger that. I also get the threat level is relative...not so old that I forgot that part. At least not yet.

[Lawman]

High threat to whom? High threat for a fighter is not necessarily high threat for a helo. Things that would drive a high threat for a helo wouldn't even make it onto the map for some fighters. We have crossed borders unescorted to recover people. If the capability exists, the cfacc has a range of options.

C'mon dude. Just because it briefs high in our current environment doesn't make it high. S2 and safety officers combined with nobody wanting to be "that guy" who's battalion lost a bird drives the risk levels now.

I'm a cross FLOT aircraft. Designed to face off against the Russian horde, and I've got some E5 briefing my missions moderate because somebody saw what they thought was a HMG or a pkm on the ground in the last 3 months. God forbid we ever go up against anybody not wearing man dresses and sandals again. First time somebody whispers the words Roland, or Guantlet around S2 we will need the president to sign off on the risk assessment.

[Guest]

High threat for a fighter is not necessarily high threat for a helo.

Yes it is.

[JSChmed]

Yes it is.

How so?

[busdriver]

Seems like we're mixing up risk, threat level and threat to specific aircraft.

[Prosuper]

Seems like we're mixing up risk, threat level and threat to specific aircraft.

Look at our history, we always buy weapons that would have been useful for the last war. How many MRAPS do we have and how many do we need now and will hundreds of them sitting in Kuwait ever come home. But on the flip side of that arguement we also develop weapons from lessons learned sometimes in blood and usally on the fly.

[Guest]

How so?

Flanker et al.

[busdriver]

I was obviously not clear, a defined threat level (low, medium, high) has a lot of assumptions built in that do not directly correlate to a threat hierarchy to specific aircraft that would in turn lead to a risk level.

Obviously, ground troops in close proximity to an objective might drive a high risk to helos but a low threat environment if all they have is AK-47s.

A highly integrated ADS might drive an overall high threat level, but if the objective is completely terrain masked from any possible threat, well that might be only medium or low risk for the helos but high risk for supporting fighters.

If there are Flankers out and about, what do I need to make sure they're more concerned with keeping themselves alive and not looking for low slow targets?

[Guest]

I get it. I was talking to JCSchmed.

[busdriver]

I know, I was trying to get everyone on the same page.

[JSChmed]

A highly integrated ADS might drive an overall high threat level, but if the objective is completely terrain masked from any possible threat, well that might be only medium or low risk for the helos but high risk for supporting fighters.

This was what I was trying to say, just said differently / better.

You can find threats that are effective against all players (flanker). I was trying to say that just because a particular threat pushes the risk level high for one doesn't automatically mean it has pushed the risk level high for all. Why don't you agree with that Rainman?

[Guest]

I get all that relative threat stuff. Proceed to vol 2.

[busdriver]

Kinda like I figured, violent agreement.

[nsplayr]

Saw on National Geographic they're doing a series called Inside Combat Rescue starting in 2013. Seem pretty legit.

[slackline]

Saw on National Geographic they're doing a series called Inside Combat Rescue starting in 2013. Seem pretty legit.

I'll throw a plug for this in too. A lot of good people in this. They borrowed some footage from the gunner who created the video with footage from the probe a few years back.

EDIT for grammar.

Edited December 13, 2012 by slackline

[NEflyer]

http://www.flightglo...-battle-380157/

Sikorsky last bidder standing in USAF's combat rescue helicopter battle

Sikorsky appears to be the only potential contractor willing to bid for the US Air Force's combat rescue helicopter (CRH) programme.

"Sikorsky intends to continue with its proposal to offer the air force a proven, affordable combat rescue helicopter system to perform the critical mission of saving warfighters' lives," the company says.

The company is likely to bid a modified variant of its MH-60 Black Hawk special operations aircraft for the USAF tender. It is already building Black Hawks as part of the service's operational loss replacement effort to shore up an existing fleet of HH-60G Pave Hawks - a type that would be replaced by the CRH. For a time, the USAF had considered placing a sole-source contract with Sikorsky, before eventually bowing to pressure from rivals to hold a full competition.

However, every other potential contender for the USAF contract, which is capped at $6.84 billion, has decided not to bid for the programme. Many of the contractors dropped out because of the evaluation criteria for the bids, says Dan Goure, an analyst at the Lexington Institute, who notes that this "essentially makes this a price shootout".

"A thorough analysis of the final RFP [request for proposals] has been conducted and NorthropGrumman has determined that it will not submit a bid to the US Air Force for the combat rescue helicopter programme," Northrop says. "We've reached this conclusion based on an extensive evaluation of customer requirements under the current RFP."

Northrop, which is partnered with European airframer AgustaWestland, had intended to offer a variant of the AW101 for the CRH effort. "This decision was made jointly with our teammate AgustaWestland and will have no effect on the team's pursuit of the US Navy presidential helicopter programme," it adds.

Like Northrop and AgustaWestland, EADS has also decided not to pursue the opportunity. "After carefully evaluating the RFP, we have decided that we will not submit a bid. As with any bid/no-bid decision, a multitude of factors were considered in our analysis," the company says. EADS has not publicly said which aircraft it had intended to offer, but it is likely it would have pitched the EurocopterEC725.

Boeing, which had won the original combat search and rescue replacement vehicle (CSAR-X) contract in 2006 with its CH-47 Chinook, is also dropping out. "While both the Boeing H-47 Chinook and the Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey have well-documented successes conducting search and rescue missions, neither aircraft is competitive for this programme as it is currently structured," the company says.

Bell Helicopter, which had considered offering its UH-1Y, is also declining to bid. "Unfortunately, the CRH requirements as written do not accommodate advanced technologies such as the V-22 or the UH-1Y, which offer lower overall operating costs, consequently neither product will be offered as a solution for the CRH programme," the company says.

The USAF, for its part, says that it is committed to an "open and transparent" process in selecting a new helicopter. "To ensure this occurs, we are prohibited from releasing information while in the request for proposal and selection processes," the service says.

Given the USAF's long and troubled history with acquisition programmes, there may be fall-out at the Pentagon over how the service has handled the CRH procurement, Goure says. "It may be perfectly legitimate, but in a world where DoD [Department of Defense], where [Deputy Secretary of Defense] Ash Carter is demanding more competition, they just wrote a contract that sort of precludes competition," he says.

[Breckey]

I take it then that the RFP favored a smaller helicopter over something the size of say an S-92. Anybody know if the MH-60M's have the same hot/high performance issues with the CT7?

[KWings06j]

Saw on National Geographic they're doing a series called Inside Combat Rescue starting in 2013. Seem pretty legit.

Below is the description I received of the series. They're doing a limited preview next friday on Nellis. I'll hold off posting my opinion (based on the write-up) until after I actually see the first episode.

PART WARRIOR. PART MEDIC. ALL HERO.

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, CAMERA CREWS FOLLOW THE ELITE AIR FORCE PARARESCUE MEN TO THE FRONT LINES OF AFGHANISTAN

National Geographic Channel Embeds With PJs on a Four-Month Deployment in the New Six-Part Event Inside Combat Rescue

(Washington, D.C. - January 16, 2013) When a soldier is down and time is running out, an elite unit of Air Force rescue warriors will risk their own lives to rescue those injured and clinging to life. In Afghanistan and around the world, Pararescuemen or PJs; their leaders, Combat Rescue officers; and their Pave Hawk helicopter teammates fly into the heat of battle, often facing imminent enemy threats, to save the critically wounded. They're part warrior, part guardian angel, part medic and ALL hero.

Now, for the first time in history, the United States Air Force is allowing cameras to follow these highly skilled airmen, with advanced medical training, to war. From the network that brought viewers the award-winning documentary Restrepo as well as Inside the Green Berets, the National Geographic Channel joins these guardian angels on the front lines during a four-month deployment to Kandahar, Afghanistan.

Inside Combat Rescue, a six-part event premiering Monday, February 18, 2013, at 10 p.m. ET/PT, takes viewers inside the harrowing world of the brave airmen who put their lives on the line so, as their motto says, "that others may live." From heroic acts of bravery in the field to training, pranks and comradery back at base, the series offers a 360-degree view of this band of brothers.

Ready to respond at a moment's notice, PJs and their rescue teammates race against time to save Americans, coalition forces, Afghan allies and even local Afghan families caught in the crossfire within the "golden hour," the critical first hour that's often the difference between life and death.

NGC cameras witness every heart-pounding step of the mission: from the moment real-time intel of the wounded streams into the operations center, and the PJs "scramble" to launch within minutes of the call; as they take on enemy fire and land in areas with heavy insurgent activity; while they rush to stop an amputee from bleeding out during air transport and then download the surgical staff at the nearest hospital; to the debrief back at base.

With strategically placed cameras on airmen's helmets and more than 40 cameras mounted both inside and outside of the Air Force's HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopters, NGC joins more than two dozen active missions, capturing each heart-pounding, unfiltered moment of war as never before.

See PJs performing advanced medical procedures in the cramped confines of a helicopter flying at full throttle. Watch as pilots, surrounded by gunshots and explosions, fly fast and low to evade Taliban gunners and possible rocket launchers. Feel the pain and raw emotion of an injured soldier holding on to life after stepping on an improvised explosive device (IED).

Back at base, brighter moments shed light on the personal side of these soldiers. Water-balloon pranks, Star Wars sheets that bring a reminder of home and a remote-controlled helicopter help these men decompress from the horrors they witness and prepare for the next mission. Heartfelt Skype sessions with family members and care packages from home remind them what they are fighting for.

One airman or PJ, Trevor, on his third deployment, writes in his journal, "I hope in the coming months, we'll continue to get chances to make a difference. I hope that when someone is out there, on the ground, having the worst day of their life, we can make sure they get the chance to return home safely. That's what it's all about. That's what we live for."

Created in the 1940s as a unit dedicated to rescuing downed airmen in combat, today the PJs' role has expanded to include saving both military and civilians in both combat situations and natural disasters. PJs have saved more than 12,000 people since September 11, 2001, including 4,000 during Hurricane Katrina's aftermath; now, they continue to change the landscape of the war in Afghanistan, making sure the wounded come home alive.

Inside Combat Rescue presents an intimate, never-before-seen portrait of the heroic and selfless efforts of a group of men risking their lives to save those fighting for our freedom.

Episodes include:

Inside Combat Rescue: Whatever It Takes Monday, February 18, 2013, at 10 p.m. ET/PT With heartfelt goodbyes, the men of the 38th Rescue Squadron at Moody Air Force Base, Ga., leave their loved ones behind, bound for a war zone half a world away - Afghanistan. A 22-year-old rookie is put to the test when a soldier is gravely injured with a gunshot wound to the chest, and clinging to life. Working in the tight confines of a helicopter flying at full throttle, he and the more experienced PJs onboard race to perform a risky procedure to save the soldier, who is struggling to breathe. Back at base, an expecting father on his third deployment awaits word from his wife of the gender of their first child.but just as the big news comes in, he gets pulled away on another rescue mission. The team races to save their own after two Americans are critically injured in an IED explosion.

Inside Combat Rescue: Visions of War

Monday, February 25, 2013, at 10 p.m. ET/PT It's their most dangerous mission yet; the PJs take on enemy fire while rescuing two American soldiers from an active battle zone in the heart of Kandahar City. Surrounded by gunshots and explosions, pilots fly in fast and low to evade Taliban gunners and possible rocket launchers. Once on the ground, rescuers race against time to reach the injured men and evacuate them to the nearest hospital before they bleed out. Helmet cameras and strategically placed cameras inside the helicopter capture each heart-pounding moment of the heroic rescue.

Inside Combat Rescue: Into the Fire

Monday, March 4, 2013, at 10 p.m. ET/PT

They call it the "golden hour," the critical window of time in which PJs strive to complete a rescue and offer the injured their best chance of survival. But chaos and confusion can delay a mission. The PJs can't land in an area littered with enemy mines until a full sweep of the zone confirms that it's safe to land. The setback jeopardizes the life of an Afghan soldier with a severed leg. On another call, frustration mounts when defensive jamming techniques block radio communications, complicating the rescue of several U.S. soldiers seriously injured during a coordinated attack by insurgents on a remote American outpost.

Saw on National Geographic they're doing a series called Inside Combat Rescue starting in 2013. Seem pretty legit.

Below is the description I received of the series. They're doing a limited preview next friday on Nellis. I'll hold off posting my opinion (based on the write-up) until after I actually see the first episode.

PART WARRIOR. PART MEDIC. ALL HERO.

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, CAMERA CREWS FOLLOW THE ELITE AIR FORCE PARARESCUE MEN TO THE FRONT LINES OF AFGHANISTAN

National Geographic Channel Embeds With PJs on a Four-Month Deployment in the New Six-Part Event Inside Combat Rescue

(Washington, D.C. - January 16, 2013) When a soldier is down and time is running out, an elite unit of Air Force rescue warriors will risk their own lives to rescue those injured and clinging to life. In Afghanistan and around the world, Pararescuemen or PJs; their leaders, Combat Rescue officers; and their Pave Hawk helicopter teammates fly into the heat of battle, often facing imminent enemy threats, to save the critically wounded. They're part warrior, part guardian angel, part medic and ALL hero.

Now, for the first time in history, the United States Air Force is allowing cameras to follow these highly skilled airmen, with advanced medical training, to war. From the network that brought viewers the award-winning documentary Restrepo as well as Inside the Green Berets, the National Geographic Channel joins these guardian angels on the front lines during a four-month deployment to Kandahar, Afghanistan.

Inside Combat Rescue, a six-part event premiering Monday, February 18, 2013, at 10 p.m. ET/PT, takes viewers inside the harrowing world of the brave airmen who put their lives on the line so, as their motto says, "that others may live." From heroic acts of bravery in the field to training, pranks and comradery back at base, the series offers a 360-degree view of this band of brothers.

Ready to respond at a moment's notice, PJs and their rescue teammates race against time to save Americans, coalition forces, Afghan allies and even local Afghan families caught in the crossfire within the "golden hour," the critical first hour that's often the difference between life and death.

NGC cameras witness every heart-pounding step of the mission: from the moment real-time intel of the wounded streams into the operations center, and the PJs "scramble" to launch within minutes of the call; as they take on enemy fire and land in areas with heavy insurgent activity; while they rush to stop an amputee from bleeding out during air transport and then download the surgical staff at the nearest hospital; to the debrief back at base.

With strategically placed cameras on airmen's helmets and more than 40 cameras mounted both inside and outside of the Air Force's HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopters, NGC joins more than two dozen active missions, capturing each heart-pounding, unfiltered moment of war as never before.

See PJs performing advanced medical procedures in the cramped confines of a helicopter flying at full throttle. Watch as pilots, surrounded by gunshots and explosions, fly fast and low to evade Taliban gunners and possible rocket launchers. Feel the pain and raw emotion of an injured soldier holding on to life after stepping on an improvised explosive device (IED).

Back at base, brighter moments shed light on the personal side of these soldiers. Water-balloon pranks, Star Wars sheets that bring a reminder of home and a remote-controlled helicopter help these men decompress from the horrors they witness and prepare for the next mission. Heartfelt Skype sessions with family members and care packages from home remind them what they are fighting for.

One airman or PJ, Trevor, on his third deployment, writes in his journal, "I hope in the coming months, we'll continue to get chances to make a difference. I hope that when someone is out there, on the ground, having the worst day of their life, we can make sure they get the chance to return home safely. That's what it's all about. That's what we live for."

Created in the 1940s as a unit dedicated to rescuing downed airmen in combat, today the PJs' role has expanded to include saving both military and civilians in both combat situations and natural disasters. PJs have saved more than 12,000 people since September 11, 2001, including 4,000 during Hurricane Katrina's aftermath; now, they continue to change the landscape of the war in Afghanistan, making sure the wounded come home alive.

Inside Combat Rescue presents an intimate, never-before-seen portrait of the heroic and selfless efforts of a group of men risking their lives to save those fighting for our freedom.

Episodes include:

Inside Combat Rescue: Whatever It Takes Monday, February 18, 2013, at 10 p.m. ET/PT With heartfelt goodbyes, the men of the 38th Rescue Squadron at Moody Air Force Base, Ga., leave their loved ones behind, bound for a war zone half a world away - Afghanistan. A 22-year-old rookie is put to the test when a soldier is gravely injured with a gunshot wound to the chest, and clinging to life. Working in the tight confines of a helicopter flying at full throttle, he and the more experienced PJs onboard race to perform a risky procedure to save the soldier, who is struggling to breathe. Back at base, an expecting father on his third deployment awaits word from his wife of the gender of their first child.but just as the big news comes in, he gets pulled away on another rescue mission. The team races to save their own after two Americans are critically injured in an IED explosion.

Inside Combat Rescue: Visions of War

Monday, February 25, 2013, at 10 p.m. ET/PT It's their most dangerous mission yet; the PJs take on enemy fire while rescuing two American soldiers from an active battle zone in the heart of Kandahar City. Surrounded by gunshots and explosions, pilots fly in fast and low to evade Taliban gunners and possible rocket launchers. Once on the ground, rescuers race against time to reach the injured men and evacuate them to the nearest hospital before they bleed out. Helmet cameras and strategically placed cameras inside the helicopter capture each heart-pounding moment of the heroic rescue.

Inside Combat Rescue: Into the Fire

Monday, March 4, 2013, at 10 p.m. ET/PT

They call it the "golden hour," the critical window of time in which PJs strive to complete a rescue and offer the injured their best chance of survival. But chaos and confusion can delay a mission. The PJs can't land in an area littered with enemy mines until a full sweep of the zone confirms that it's safe to land. The setback jeopardizes the life of an Afghan soldier with a severed leg. On another call, frustration mounts when defensive jamming techniques block radio communications, complicating the rescue of several U.S. soldiers seriously injured during a coordinated attack by insurgents on a remote American outpost.

[Swash]

Inside Combat Rescue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO3c0aoc_EQ

[stract]

ACC did the pre-screen today, everything coming from folks I know up there has been positive. DM is screening it on Friday as well.

[Vno]

Figured this would be more appropriate here.

Trailer for an upcoming documentary about DUSTOFF.

http://www.arrowheadfilms.com/documentary/when-i-have-your-wounded