12 hours ago, Pooter said:

Googles:

When did the chips act start being drafted?

June 2020

12 hours ago, Pooter said:

Couldn’t possibly be that a democrat admin did a proactive domestic thing in alignment with their foreign policy. We’ve already established it’s impossible for anything smart to happen without first punching oneself in the face.

Maybe I've got long covid, but who was the president in 2020? If there's one area that you and I will be in violent agreement on, it's that Donald Trump is a fierce critic of globalization and the destruction of American manufacturing.

But he's been that way for decades, like a few other largely ignored voices, and it wasn't until a global pandemic erased the narrative surrounding just-in-time inventory that the Chips act was able to grow, let alone pass in 2022.

Now, if I'm wrong and the pandemic had nothing to do with it, which is laughable given the numerous auto factory shutdowns during late 2020 and early 2021 that slammed everybody in the face over and over and over with semiconductor supply chains, but even so. The only other explanation is that the phenomenon is wholy and entirely attributable to Donald Trump, The first Republican and really first president of either party to dare to question the gospel of the free market. Personally I think he is a benefactor of timing rather than cunning, but if that's the route you want to go, sure. It is quite cute to hear someone attribute Chips to a democratic administration.

If the supply-chain-wrecking pandemic that started before the chips act was drafted can't be responsible, I'm a bit perplexed as to how the Democratic administration that started after the act was drafted is somehow the champion.

You can go back and forth on whether or not the Republicans or the Democrats get any credit for passing the thing. The Republicans were for it in isolation, but then the Manchin betrayal happened and everybody on the right went ape shit. It's not like the Republicans get much credit here, they've been shoving their head in the sand about globalization for decades.

I'll give you the Russian invasion gaff. I was crossing wires between chips and energy.

12 hours ago, Pooter said:

More broadly speaking though, I don’t want you to get frustrated with me. I’m asking genuine questions and soaking in your points and calling out the parts I think are silly. I’m here for a friendly and lively debate and yes enjoy being the contrarian in a den of mostly aligned war hawks. I will give you your ideas have a unique flavor and honesty here and it’s not just the predictable Fox News word vomit. I admit I definitely have never heard the #GETHARD (David Goggins ™️) strategy of foreign policy strength through self-sabotage before.

It's not frustrating, it's just boring. I understand that it's not necessarily some Grand strategy. You are in a vast majority of conservatives here, so there is more that you disagree with than you agree with, and only limited bandwidth to waste here (hopefully), and so you can spend all of your time trying to prove something wrong instead of just saying what you think is right. A contrarian has a contrary point. Not just "that's dumb let's just do all the good stuff without any of the bad stuff happening."

I mean... You literally said that

On 6/30/2026 at 10:53 AM, Pooter said:

But if you do want my policy prescription that badly it’s basically: do all the smart stuff you listed in your comment but don’t do all the really stupid parts.

The point about harassing you to run for office is to illustrate that you are obviously either hilariously arrogant, which I doubt, or you just haven't considered how many hundreds/thousands of people exactly like you with exactly your ideas have tried and failed to get anywhere near the levers required to "do all the smart stuff ... But don't do all the really stupid parts."

I could get that kind of policy prescription from the kids at my daughter's daycare. If it's so easy, why hasn't it happened? And if you know why it hasn't happened, and it's none of the things that I've said, then how do we get it done?

I can't remember a single time that you have answered that question or even come remotely close to answering it. Your foreign policy basically boils down to finding a magic wand as far as I can tell. I'm no big fan of the political class, but there are some incredibly intelligent people throughout and none of them have been able to crack the egg.

So what's your solution? What's your projection? You called it a straw man to say that you don't think there will be a giant war ever again. So when? Do you believe as time goes on we will be more or less prepared for that war? Do you believe we are more or less prepared than we were 10 years ago? 20 years ago? 30 years ago? Is our preparedness for this type of conflict trending upward or downward over time, and do you believe it will continue in that direction? Of the things we need to do to be prepared for that type of war, what should we be doing, and why do you believe we would do it despite the fact that for the last 30 years we have done the exact opposite?

A lot of people have put a lot of time into a lot of very insightful posts about what they think is happening, why, and what to do about it. I don't mind explaining my contribution to that conversation, but if it boils down to: you are a utopian and I am a realist, well, like I said, that's just boring. At a certain point any belief system must rely on an element of faith at the foundational level, and when you get all the way down to that level, you've exceeded the capabilities of debate and discourse. Despite my best efforts, I can't seem to find anything from you that isn't just an article of Faith.

7 hours ago, Negat0ry said:

I had no idea I have so thoroughly destroyed you lmao.

One of my volunteer gigs at the union was moderating the union message board. We dealt with a lot of the same few dozen people who couldn't pry themselves away from the keyboard, despite it obviously being in their best interests. Every once in awhile one of them would message me in private asking me to ban their access, because they just couldn't let go of the endless battle over nothing, no matter how many times they tried to block themselves or delete their account. They always came back.

So who thinks the Iranians are going to overplay their hand and piss Trump off into another 60-day AUMF bonanza?

6 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

So who thinks the Iranians are going to overplay their hand and piss Trump off into another 60-day AUMF bonanza?

Whether it's the Iranians, or the Israelis, or the mid-terms in the rear view mirror.

11 minutes ago, busdriver said:

Whether it's the Iranians, or the Israelis, or the mid-terms in the rear view mirror.

I'm betting post mid-terms, Israeli led/US assisted.

On 7/1/2026 at 12:00 PM, Lord Ratner said:

Maybe I've got long covid, but who was the president in 2020? If there's one area that you and I will be in violent agreement on, it's that Donald Trump is a fierce critic of globalization and the destruction of American manufacturing.

Since I clearly have to spell this out .. it began being drafted in 2020 by mostly democrats (I.e. in no way caused by russias invasion of Ukraine) before being signed into law in 2022 by the Biden admin (I.e. having nothing to do with the Trump admin)

Good lord first you’re arguing the chips act was a useless Democrat knee jerk to Russia, then when I clearly disprove that, you latch on to trumps lame duck year of 2020 as the year it was drafted to somehow mentally contort yourself to give him the credit.. for the thing you didn’t even believe was proactive in the first place..

I didn’t mean for this to become a sidebar on the chips act but this is genuinely so dumb I can’t let it go. Not much point in talking about complex foreign policy issues if we can’t even come to a collective understanding on a basic order of events or who is behind a piece of legislation without you shifting your self-contradictory argument multiple times..

On 7/1/2026 at 12:00 PM, Lord Ratner said:

I could get that kind of policy prescription from the kids at my daughter's daycare. If it's so easy, why hasn't it happened? And if you know why it hasn't happened, and it's none of the things that I've said, then how do we get it done?

We get it done by ending our complete subservience to a foreign government.. I don’t expect anyone in your daughter’s daycare to know about AIPAC but a good start toward a solution might be reducing or eliminating that lobby’s influence in our politics.

25 minutes ago, Pooter said:

We get it done by ending our complete subservience to a foreign government.. I don’t expect anyone in your daughter’s daycare to know about AIPAC but a good start toward a solution might be reducing or eliminating that lobby’s influence in our politics.

Ah yeah, the Jews.

The all powerful lobby that donates less to American politics than SpaceX, Coinbase, or Bloomberg, and who's lobbying is outdone by Lockheed, Facebook, the Realtors lobby, and AARP. But they have "complete subservience" from the US 🤣😂.

You just can't live without the idea of a conspiracy. Weak tea.

On 7/5/2026 at 10:21 PM, Lord Ratner said:

Ah yeah, the Jews.

The all powerful lobby that donates less to American politics than SpaceX, Coinbase, or Bloomberg, and who's lobbying is outdone by Lockheed, Facebook, the Realtors lobby, and AARP. But they have "complete subservience" from the US 🤣😂.

You just can't live without the idea of a conspiracy. Weak tea.

For the millionth time it isn’t about “the Jews.”

It is about the government of Israel and every time you guys falsely accuse people of racism you dig the hole even deeper for yourselves. But by all means continue and let’s see how far public sentiment for Israel can crater, I doubt we’ve found the bottom yet. Just keep shouting “anti semite” like the right wing doppelgänger of a blue haired smith college student and then ponder, along with the great mysteries of the universe, why your arguments keep losing traction.

I have an issue with a government. A foreign government that we give a shit ton of money to. Not a people, not a race, not an ethnic group. Full stop.

My claim the government of Israel has outsized influence on our politics is based on:

AIPAC not being registered as a foreign lobby, and yes being extremely influential and powerful despite there being a handful of domestic lobbying groups that are bigger

Netanyahu visiting DC more than any other head of state in recent years especially in the lead up to the war

Sitting US senators quoted as saying the main reason they ran for office is to be a defender of Israel

Batshit dispensationalist Christians who believe it is their religious duty to support a foreign government

Israel being the largest recipient of US foreign aid since its founding

The legislation CURRENTLY being pushed to merge some of the US and Israeli government defense functions

The fact that we have attempted to or have toppled the governments of all 7 countries listed in the Israeli clean break strategy

That our welfare baby country actively defies us and sabotages our negotiations on a routine basis

Campaign donations to Trump in the hundreds of millions from the Adelsons motivated entirely by Israel support (Trump admitted they won’t leave him alone about it)

The sitting US ambassador to Israel endorsing the greater Israel project

But yeah since the AARP is bigger than one pro Israel lobbying group probably I’m a racist and it’s all just a conspiracy.

PS. Saw we’re back to bombing as of last night. I’m sure this one will do the trick

Edited 17 hours ago17 hr by Pooter

11 hours ago, Pooter said:

Israel being the largest recipient of US foreign aid since its founding

AIPAC not being registered as a foreign lobby, and yes being extremely influential and powerful despite there being a handful of domestic lobbying groups that are bigger

Your entire rant is batshit crazy, but I’ll call these couple out:

1. As one example, Ukraine received 3-5x the foreign aid as Israel for multiple years. Your statement is 100% false. Even in 2021 (pre-UKR and Biden as POTUS) Israel received 4.5% of our foreign aid…man, that’s a scary big number, the Israeli government clearly has a controlling stake in our politics!

   Also, it’s almost like we give foreign aid to countries at specific times to drive outcomes we want. Crazy mind blowing, amirite!

2. AIPAC is not a foreign group based on FARA (1938), which clearly states groups will only register as foreign agents if they are “controlled, directed, or funded by foreign governments or political parties.” None of those apply to AIPAC, except in your progressive conspiracy mind.

   How are you measuring your “extremely powerful” statement? AIPAC made up about 2% of the lobbying financial efforts in 2024. If we’re measuring by direct donations to candidates, they are so far down the list it’s laughable you’d even bring it up. If we’re going purely by PAC/SPAC, they’re not in the top 5, and I’m being generous by including all of the “sub-PACs/AIPAC-adjacent”in that assessment.

In conclusion, a picture is worth a 1000 words, so if you could look in a mirror, here’s what’d you see:

15 minutes ago, brabus said:

Ukraine received 3-5x the foreign aid as Israel for multiple years. Your statement is 100% false. Even in 2021 (pre-UKR and Biden as POTUS) Israel received 4.5% of our foreign aid…man

Reading comprehension bud. I said “since its founding” (1948) but yes thank you I’m sure you can cherry pick years where a crisis temporarily spiked our foreign aid to other places more. Go look it up. It’s simply a fact, not some Pepe Silvia conspiracy.

1 hour ago, brabus said:

AIPAC is not a foreign group based on FARA (1938), which clearly states groups will only register as foreign agents if they are “controlled, directed, or funded by foreign governments or political parties.” None of those apply to AIPAC, except in your progressive conspiracy mind.

This is precisely the problem. It is a lobby thats motivated exclusively by support for a foreign government despite, yes being a “domestic” group on paper. This allows them to contribute to political races—something no other foreign lobby is allowed to do, and that is the root cause of their disproportionate influence.

I know I’m slaying the sacred cow here so critical thinking is gonna be hard but let’s put our big boy pants on for a second and ask ourselves what Thomas Massie, Scott Perry, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Cori Bush, and Jamaal Bowman have in common from a policy perspective. And why would a “domestic” political lobby equally go after these people all over the political spectrum with seemingly zero policy overlap. I look forward to us pretending it’s for any reason other than the obvious

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by Pooter

2 hours ago, Pooter said:

something no other foreign lobby is allowed to do

They're not a foreign lobby you walnut.

Thomas Jefferson was so livid about the US failing to support the French against the British, he resigned. Was Thomas Jefferson secretly a French lobbyist?

Americans are allowed to have foreign policy views. And they're allowed to donate and vote based on them. That doesn't make them puppets of a foreign government.

3 hours ago, Pooter said:

I said “since its founding” (1948)

Oh, you mean cumulatively. Got it, well in that case they’ve cumulatively received 4.7% of total US foreign aid since 1948. Greater than 95% of US foreign aid has gone to non-Israel countries since 1948 - wow, super compelling numbers to support your super compelling argument that we’re subservient to the Jew government. And again, providing aid to a region where we want things to go a certain way is normal foreign policy - should be easy for even you to understand.

3 hours ago, Pooter said:

ask ourselves what Thomas Massie, Scott Perry, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Cori Bush, and Jamaal Bowman have in common from a policy perspective

They’re all shit politicians who are anti-conservative and support bullshit things from a conservative perspective. So, a conservative group lobbied against them. Wow, shocking, it’s impossible to make sense of that one. I assume you’re ready to also attack every leftist lobby/PAC for working against conservative candidates, because that too can only be explained by wild conspiracy theories.