Vertigo Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Nice lofty and noble reading article that even comments on the scourge of the welfare state. Why exactly do we need to declare war on Iran? Are they denying immigrants unfettered entry? Here's a list from the end of that article. Didn't cut and paste well. Repeal all laws restricting immigration; do away with all quotas, visas, green-cards, and the like; make open immigration the law of the land. Establish an objective screening process at designated points of entry along the U.S. border; turn away (or detain) only criminals, enemies of America, and people with certain kinds of contagious diseases.9 Grant unconditional amnesty to all so-called “illegal” immigrants, and apologize to them for the trouble our immoral laws have caused them. Exclude immigrants from receiving welfare and from using government schools—and exempt them from paying taxes toward these immoral programs. Declare war on Iran; eliminate its current regime; and announce to the world that, from now on, this is how America will deal with regimes that threaten our citizens, our immigrants, or our allies. Turn next to the Saudi regime. Repeat as necessary. Reading the harsh laws in Mexico regarding illegals, who does Mexico apologize to? Yeah, that part had me scratching my head as well. Must've been something going on in 2008 that I don't remember. . Whatever sympathy we have for those less fortunate than us can not outweigh our right and duty for self-protection, self-defense and sovereignty . If they aren't taking from you- what are you protecting and defending? Why would allowing immigrants to enter mean we are no longer sovereign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeA10 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Weird. One minute the article is going all lightness of human existence then sums up with attack Iran. Didn't see that coming. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! Yeah, that part had me scratching my head as well. Must've been something going on in 2008 that I don't remember. If they aren't taking from you- what are you protecting and defending? Why would allowing immigrants to enter mean we are no longer sovereign? The Ukrainians are in a better position to answer that question than me or some high minded theoretical argument. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Weird. One minute the article is going all lightness of human existence then sums up with attack Iran. Didn't see that coming. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! The Ukrainians are in a better position to answer that question than me or some high minded theoretical argument. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! Can we agree there is a difference between an immigrant and a standing army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeA10 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Can we agree there is a difference between an immigrant and a standing army? How about immigrants that formed their own army? Pro Russian forces made up up Russian immigrants have attacked Ukrainian military forces. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 How about immigrants that formed their own army? Pro Russian forces made up up Russian immigrants have attacked Ukrainian military forces. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! Militias aren't illegal here. Once they act against the nation or others in a criminal way they become criminals and should be dealt with as such. Until then they are innocent and should be treated as such. The fact they are or are not immigrants is of no importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeA10 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Militias aren't illegal here. Once they act against the nation or others in a criminal way they become criminals and should be dealt with as such. Until then they are innocent and should be treated as such. The fact they are or are not immigrants is of no importance. It seems to be important to Ukraine and a host of EU countries. Important to Russia, also, but they're in the "for" vs the "against" category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) It seems to be important to Ukraine and a host of EU countries. Important to Russia, also, but they're in the "for" vs the "against" category. Ah, but remember this whole thing started with non-immigrants who looked to oust President Viktor Yanukovich- who is pro Russian. Those Ukranians seized public buildings and attacked police lines. Pro-Russian forces didn't attack until the new Kiev government was formed. So the first action was ok because they weren't immigrants but the second action wasn't because those people weren't born in that country originally? Even though they have the same rights as those who are native born? Edited May 19, 2014 by Vertigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Militias aren't illegal here. Once they act against the nation or others in a criminal way they become criminals and should be dealt with as such. Until then they are innocent and should be treated as such. The fact they are or are not immigrants is of no importance. Since you're speaking of legalilty vs illegality here (not philosophical), per US Code, only citizens makeup the organized and unorganized militia (unless they have made a declaration of intention to become a US citizen)...which is interesting because you can enlist in the military without being a citizen. When you enlist as a non-citizen, do you have to make a declaration of intention to become an American citizen? (did some searching and couldn't find an easy/straightforward answer http://www.cna.org/sites/default/files/research/non%20citizens%20in%20the%20enlisted%20us%20military%20d0025768%20a2.pdf)http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Since you're speaking of legalilty vs illegality here (not philosophical), per US Code, only citizens makeup the organized and unorganized militia (unless they have made a declaration of intention to become a US citizen)...which is interesting because you can enlist in the military without being a citizen. When you enlist as a non-citizen, do you have to make a declaration of intention to become an American citizen? (did some searching and couldn't find an easy/straightforward answer http://www.cna.org/sites/default/files/research/non%20citizens%20in%20the%20enlisted%20us%20military%20d0025768%20a2.pdf)http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311 No you do not. You cannot get a commission or even a security clearance- but all that is required is to be a resident alien, be between 17 and 35, meet the mental, moral, and physical standards for enlistment; and they must speak, read and write English fluently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hispeed7721 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 [enlistees] must speak...English fluently. That may be written in a reg somewhere, but it definitely is not enforced Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsplayr Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Agreed...I've met several LTs from SEC schools that don't speak English fluently 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeA10 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Southernese is not that difficult to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Griswold Posted May 20, 2014 Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 If they aren't taking from you- what are you protecting and defending? Why would allowing immigrants to enter mean we are no longer sovereign? They are taking advantage of my country, I am advocating for protecting / defending rule of law and sovereignty. I would argue that some of it has already been lost and the secure border I am arguing for is integral to further erosion of our national sovereignty. Not a conspiracy theorist but powerful entities like trans-national corporations, ethno-centric advocacy groups, factions of major political parties view a open border as beneficial to their interests which are not always in line with those of the United States. Are they plotting Aztlan or the North American Union? I doubt it but "they" would rather see a free trade / open borders / easy residency & citizenship / demographic & political shift reality develop. That may be good for business but it is not good for a free & stable democratic republic. I see that as a race to the bottom: low wages & poor working conditions in a hyper-competitive labor market, high crime from weak states with narco gangs, divisive politics from large unassimilated minorities that are encouraged to agitate the majority to adapt to them and a dismissive attitude to the majority population of the nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panchbarnes Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) On the topic of illegal immigration... Pentagon eyes specialized program to enlist undocumented immigrants http://www.stripes.com/pentagon-eyes-specialized-program-to-enlist-undocumented-immigrants-1.284100 The Pentagon is reviewing a program that allows qualified noncitizens to enlist in the military, and officials say they’ll consider expanding it to cover some who now live in the United States illegally. One of many hi-vis/controversial social issues that the Pentagon has been "reviewing" lately. The Army has been accepting green card holders for a while in order to support the two major combat operations. Now that we are in the middle of a major DoD-wide drawdown this program makes no sense what's so ever. I'm willing to bet someone's VSP that we can find enough "qualified applicants" and "diversity" within the pool of legal & documented immigrants that we have in this country today. I can see how the implementation of this program can benefit someone politically, I just don't see how it benefits the military or the U.S.. Edited May 20, 2014 by PanchBarnes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disregard Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 U.S. Setting Up Emergency Shelter in Texas as Youths Cross Border Alone With border authorities in South Texas overwhelmed by a surge of young illegal migrants traveling by themselves, the Department of Homeland Security declared a crisis this week and moved to set up an emergency shelter ... for up to 1,000 minors at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas, authorities said, and will begin transferring youths there by land and air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 And you want to limit human freedom for your own selfish reasons. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! Now you're getting it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Now you're getting it. So slavery should be legal again, right? After all of we're going to limit freedom for selfish reasons, why not go all out? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10percenttruth Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Man, the slopes in this thread are slippery as hell! I'm amazed all the strawmen can stay standing with that & the red herrings flying around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 So slavery should be legal again, right? After all of we're going to limit freedom for selfish reasons, why not go all out? Wait...are you actually making the argument that citizens of this country currently have true freedom? Ok...go on... Fortunately we have the 13th Amendment, but unfortunately we have the thousands of other laws and regulations that limit and restrict personal Liberty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 ...unfortunately we have the thousands of other laws and regulations that limit and restrict personal Liberty. That doesn't mean they are right. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 That doesn't mean they are right. Agreed...just saying that you don't need to make the hypothetical (and very unrealistic) slavery comparison. We have thousands of current laws/regulations keeping us from being truly free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Griswold Posted May 25, 2014 Author Share Posted May 25, 2014 (edited) Not a good sign... ‘We Have Never Experienced This’: Chilling Drug Cartel-Style Threats Hit Texas Billboards Another reason for Operation Secure the Damn Border to go into high gear. Edited May 25, 2014 by Clark Griswold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyEng Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Meanwhile in Sweden: http://m.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141437/ivar-ekman/stockholm-syndrome Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clouseau Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 (edited) Bit hypocritical for the Mexican gov. to complain about our border when one considers what they do on their southern border to illegals coming up from the south and they need to be called out on this but that would take balls . Instead of letting those who sponge off taxpayers into this country we schould only allow those in with something to contribute to the society as a whole. Edited May 25, 2014 by clouseau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeA10 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 "While Europe Slept" is a good read regarding immigration into Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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