FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[ComingLeft]

Had the ACC CMSgt come talk this week. He basically confirmed that all the numbers voodoo was based on the weapons systems cuts AF has proposed. None of these cuts have been approved by congress. How much you want to bet a Senator/Rep from an area with contracts at stake decides they have heartburn with the plan? I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

Let me get this straight:

The AF will meet the FY14 force levels mandated by Congress without these programs. The AF wants to downsize the force for a post OEF world. The AF has an unapproved aircraft and force plan that is driving internal decisions. Mission sets are not projected to go away.

Sounds like we are front running a problem that does not yet exist. What happens when Congress makes us keep the aircraft? They made us buy OSA aircraft we did not want. I can only imagine the shrieking when we cut aircraft people do want. I suspect Congress's retort will be, "You f'd it. You fix it." I am excited as anyone about VSP, but does someone have the audacity to cancel the VSP/RIF programs? This ill conceived Hindenburg-Titanic hybrid, slow motion train wreck is painful to watch.

[jstarsshag]

FWIW,

I dropped TERA paperwork on the 14 th, AFPC got it on the 16th. I called yesterday and was told the "batch process " (aprox 100 per batch) these and mine would be in the next batch. I'll know if I'm free NLT 7 Feb.

[BamaC-21]

FWIW,

I dropped TERA paperwork on the 14 th, AFPC got it on the 16th. I called yesterday and was told the "batch process " (aprox 100 per batch) these and mine would be in the next batch. I'll know if I'm free NLT 7 Feb.

Yeah, that's definitely not first-come, first-served...

[Catbox]

FWIW,

I dropped TERA paperwork on the 14 th, AFPC got it on the 16th. I called yesterday and was told the "batch process " (aprox 100 per batch) these and mine would be in the next batch. I'll know if I'm free NLT 7 Feb.

Do you check your "incidents/messages" link on mypers? I'm on the exact timeline as you but the last action taken on mine was CC coord on the 21st. Says usual processing time (not that TERA is usual) is six weeks so I was thinking late Feb/early March.

[Bender]

Just like any other software related venture by the military, the specs got all fucked up between the customer and the engineer (thanks, Bob). It doesn't have the automatic ability to sort submitted shit by date, however it does have the ability to download the batch file of all submissions in the database when the client requests it. As such, since it does not sort them for the human, and the human is too lazy to sort them on their own, it cannot be considered perfectly first come, first served.

We keep thinking that this statement means it in no way reflects "first come, first served", when in actuality it is a legalese statement (fairly required as the iceberg is in sight and course correction is not taking very rapidly here) that it is not perfectly "first come, first served".

Even if you get it into batch #1, if it's on the bottom of the pile...you could still be fooked. Shit, if your an 11x and it's on the top of the pile...your probably fooked.

It's a flawed system, but that's how we do things here in the Air Force. If you don't like it, apply for VSP already....damn it.

Bendy

[chim richalds]

Have you guys heard the AFSC matrix by eligible and overages is being pulled! If you are an 11M from the 2005 year group you do not have an 18% chance of being released. This is getting to be insane.

I still see the matrices up there, you just trying to be cute?

[Fifty-six & Two]

Couple of notes from the Force Management DCO that took place this morning:

Individual briefing said they've been tasked to cut 25,000 people over the next 13 months. When questioned during the Q&A, it was never answered.

TERA

Each batch will be racked and stacked and approved based upon the following priority: No ADSC approved first, then ADSCs/Bonus (least to greatest), projected assignments, commander's recommendation

VSP

No rack and stack specifically mentioned, so who the F knows. Questions about whether passed over 2004 year group eligible, but no answer.

Questions:

If we submit for VSP on 6 Feb, when can we expect to hear results? Answer: We expect to do the first round of officer VSP processing in mid-Feb so likely will send notices before the end of Feb

The application window will begin at 0000CST on 6 Feb

Other than that, not much else was thrown out there. They say they will post the slides onto myPers within 48 hours.

Also, there is another DCO being held at 1700 CST: https://connectcol.dco.dod.mil/fy14forcemanagementofficer/

Edited January 30, 2014 by Fifty-six & Two

[lossofclocklossofdata]

If the vsp is purely a numbers administration program like the mypers Q&A explains, does that mean CC's don't have any input to affect the application? They could just slow roll an app.

[Champ Kind]

CCs can recommend approval/disapproval.

That's it.

[lossofclocklossofdata]

I would think that is definitely enough for an 11M in RPA to get withheld.

[audioflyer]

Force Shaping town hall at my base today. Only real nugget I picked up was that the 1LT briefer said that you don't have to provide a justification for being released from your ADSC besides the required quote from the PSDM. She said that if you write more, it wouldn't make a difference at AFPC, but I have a feeling it might help you to get an approval from your CCs.

Regarding "slow rolling" your application, there is actually a statement in either the PSDM or the referenced regs that prohibits commanders from delaying an application. I can find it if anybody needs it.

She also said not to expect any more details about which airframes would be targeted in each AFSC. Again, this is a 1LT personnel officer at one particular base, so YMMV.

[lossofclocklossofdata]

"Commanders, supervisors, agencies, units or organizations are not authorized to delay, divert or disapprove applications under this program" for all of the programs covered, however PSDM 14-08 does state commanders "Must make a recommendation in the commander’s justification portion of the web-based on-line application no later than 1 May 14." So...does that mean they won't review your application until your CC leaves his/her comments, which could put you in the very last "batch" in May after the program may have met its quota?

[Bender]

Regarding "slow rolling" your application, there is actually a statement in either the PSDM or the referenced regs that prohibits commanders from delaying an application.

Yeah, yeah. There are rules against oppressing people, stealing shit, and rubbing sleeping people's assholes...but the cheap price of an LOR and less than a month's base pay, give or take, you think that's gonna keep me from doing "what I think is right for the Air Force"?

Son...I did not "slow roll" that application. I'm just a fucking busy, to you read important, man. My exec is also very shitty at getting through my email and responding in a timely manner. Keeps saying shit like I have to sign this one and that one...if you sign one, sign them all idiot. Shit, where do we find these kids....am I right?

Do I get in-residence SDE credit for that post? B--U--R--NNNNNN.

Bendy

[pcola]

Yeah, yeah. There are rules against rubbing sleeping people's assholes...but the cheap price of an LOR and less than a month's base pay, give or take, you think that's gonna keep me from doing "what I think is right for the Air Force"?

Son...I did not "slow roll" that application. I'm just a fucking busy, to you read important, man. My exec is also very shitty at getting through my email and responding in a timely manner. Keeps saying shit like I have to sign this one and that one...if you sign one, sign them all idiot. Shit, where do we find these kids....am I right?

Do I get in-residence SDE credit for that post? B--U--R--NNNNNN.

Bendy

WhenTF did they start serving liquor at Bagram????

[BamaC-21]

Couple of notes from the Force Management DCO that took place this morning:

Individual briefing said they've been tasked to cut 25,000 people over the next 13 months. When questioned during the Q&A, it was never answered.

TERA

Each batch will be racked and stacked and approved based upon the following priority: No ADSC approved first, then ADSCs/Bonus (least to greatest), projected assignments, commander's recommendation

VSP

No rack and stack specifically mentioned, so who the F knows. Questions about whether passed over 2004 year group eligible, but no answer.

Questions:

If we submit for VSP on 6 Feb, when can we expect to hear results? Answer: We expect to do the first round of officer VSP processing in mid-Feb so likely will send notices before the end of Feb

The application window will begin at 0000CST on 6 Feb

Other than that, not much else was thrown out there. They say they will post the slides onto myPers within 48 hours.

Also, there is another DCO being held at 1700 CST: https://connectcol.dco.dod.mil/fy14forcemanagementofficer/

Any update on which program to select during the application on MyPers? I emailed AFPC the other day, but haven't gotten a response.

[Lumbergh]

I may be wrong, but 13-130 (the latest version) is for the RIF and 14-08 is VSP only. I don't know why you would have to justify being RIF'd but I can see why your justification to voluntarily leave could necessary. At least that is my understanding of the two programs.

You ARE wrong. Although 13-130 discusses RIF eligibility, look at attachment 10 which discusses VSP instructions. They instructions on how to apply are different than the instructions in 14-08. During a online session the other day, our MPF rep told use the instructions out of 13-130:

Access the vMPF via the AFPC Secure website. Select “Apply for Voluntary Separation”, and when prompted to “Select a Separation Provision”, select “SECAF Approved Early Separation Program”. Include “I am requesting to separate under the Voluntary Separation Pay (VSP) Program” in the remarks section.

However, I still have not heard back from AFPC when I posed the exact same question. Good thing this decision isn't important...

[Fifty-six & Two]

Any update on which program to select during the application on MyPers? I emailed AFPC the other day, but haven't gotten a response.

I haven't heard anything either. I'm sure they will release new instructions at 2359 on the 5th.

[tunes]

so can we create the app again and just hit save prior to the 6th and submit on the 6th? or are they wanting the whole thing to not be created until the 6th?

[audioflyer]

I seriously doubt they care what date you created the application, but rather when it was submitted. Though I'm not sure if they want you to submit it to your CC on the 6th or for your senior rater to submit it on the 6th.

[Fifty-six & Two]

I seriously doubt they care what date you created the application, but rather when it was submitted. Though I'm not sure if they want you to submit it to your CC on the 6th or for your senior rater to submit it on the 6th.

You can save it as many times as you want between now and the 6th. You'll see in the top right corner it updates it with a timestamp. They don't want you hitting "Finish" on page 10 until the 6th at 0000 CST. That will be the timestamp they go off of WRT whether you submitted in the application window. Granted, this is all based off of my memory from doing this 3 years ago, but I'd rather be safe than have my application kicked back for applying outside the window.

[lossofclocklossofdata]

Does the application go to AFPC as soon as you click "finish" or not until your CC writes his BS comments? If it has to go through the CC first before AFPC gets it, that gives the CC a loophole in the process. "No need to rush this guys, just take your time, talk to your families and we'll work through it together. We have until May 1st to get 'your' wishes turned in. Oh, AFPC met their quota and you didn't get accepted? I didn't see that coming. You just didn't get selected. No one to blame but the big bureaucratic amoeba that is AFPC. Sorry, better luck next time. Now get back to the mission I have a star to make.”

[ComingLeft]

Does the application go to AFPC as soon as you click "finish" or not until your CC writes his BS comments? If it has to go through the CC first before AFPC gets it, that gives the CC a loophole in the process. "No need to rush this guys, just take your time, talk to your families and we'll work through it together. We have until May 1st to get 'your' wishes turned in. Oh, AFPC met their quota and you didn't get accepted? I didn't see that coming. You just didn't get selected. No one to blame but the big bureaucratic amoeba that is AFPC. Sorry, better luck next time. Now get back to the mission I have a star to make.”

FWIW several years back, I heard a story during a Vance welcome brief from the base IG. Two Captains had Sq and Wg/CC blessing and applied for VSP at 0001. For whatever reason their applications were held up at AFPC, and they did not win at first come, first served. Details are fuzzy now, but I think they had to apply physically at MPF. Like I said, old story. The IG was able to get these two Captains separated despite the program being full. Granted they had Wg/CC backing, but keep good notes and save e-mails. Sometimes if the system does not work, the back up system does.

I don't know why a CC would want to hold up a package; it is not a vote against the individual. No rational officer is going to get out because 24 months of overlap with their CC. These decisions are much bigger than that.

[Tnkr]

Hi, all. Long time lurker, and I know I have no cred with you all, but I talked to a woman on the mypers hotline earlier this month when we thought vsp was kicking off on the 14th.

When I asked about the most important time, she said the date/time stamp happens when you, the member, clicks the final submit button on your application. At that point your CC will get an auto email to go start the approval process. I pressed to test that on the 14th just in case and my CC did get an email. She said that your application will be part of the batch based upon your stamp (sts) not your CC's approval. Not sure I buy that all the way, but it's what she said.

Hope that helps someone.

[ThreeHoler]

Does the application go to AFPC as soon as you click "finish" or not until your CC writes his BS comments? If it has to go through the CC first before AFPC gets it, that gives the CC a loophole in the process. "No need to rush this guys, just take your time, talk to your families and we'll work through it together. We have until May 1st to get 'your' wishes turned in. Oh, AFPC met their quota and you didn't get accepted? I didn't see that coming. You just didn't get selected. No one to blame but the big bureaucratic amoeba that is AFPC. Sorry, better luck next time. Now get back to the mission I have a star to make.”

During the 06/07 VSP, a pilot's package (sts) was delayed intentionally by the base leadership. The pilot missed the cutoff and was denied VSP as a result. Said pilot went to the IG and the iG found in favor of the pilot...VSP approved.

[chim richalds]

During the 06/07 VSP, a pilot's package (sts) was delayed intentionally by the base leadership. The pilot missed the cutoff and was denied VSP as a result. Said pilot went to the IG and the iG found in favor of the pilot...VSP approved.

I never understood why these people go out of their way to keep you in, what does it matter to them?