T-6 Instructor Requirements

[SCRIMP]

All,

I have a somewhat unique question for the board. One of my guys is transitioning from the HH-60 to a T-6 instructor gig. The problem begins with the our schoolhouse. We graduate the school house as an 11-H3E, which is an aircraft commander. When we get to our units, the standard has been an administrative downgrade to a mission co-pilot/first pilot. The problem is that there is really no definition of a first pilot in our 11-2HH60 v1/2/3. The way it is used is that a guy fresh from the school house can act as aircraft commander for non-combat sorties, i.e. he can take it cross-country. This is the first of many problems.

The second problem is in a table established in our 11-2HH60 v1. The table (as best as I can tell) is a throwback to when we graduated the schoolhouse as co-pilots. This table lists total time required for upgrade to Mission Pilot (combat aircraft commander) is:

400hrs total time

150hrs HH-60 time.

There are also notes associated with it:

NOTES:

1. Total flying time must be achieved prior to certification as an AC. HH-60G time does not include other time. For upgrade purpose, any H-60 variant counts toward HH-60 time.

2. Must have a minimum of 100 hours total NVG time prior to certification as a night mission AC.

3. Applies to pilots (FP) not previously helicopter qualified on initial upgrade to mission AC.

4. Applies to FP, previously qualified in other helicopter MDSs.

5. This table not applicable for AETC.

6. Waivers to these totals will be IAW paragraph 1.12. of this instruction.

This brings me to my final question. What is the definition of total time? The 11-2HH60 v1 defines total time as:

Total Flying Time—Total time for all aircraft flown in military service to include student time. Total flying time accumulated for upgrade purposes must be in the aircrew member's current crew position (i.e., pilot, flight engineer, aerial gunner).

It also defines HH-60 time (I'm guessing by calling it PAA):

Primary Aircraft Authorization (PAA)—Aircraft authorized to a unit for performance of its operational mission. The primary authorization forms the basis for the allocation of operating resources to include manpower, support equipment and flying hour funding (Joint Publication 1- 02). This term also implies, for the purposes of this instruction, to the particular MDS aircraft assigned to an individual's flying unit. PAA time refers to hours flown in unit assigned MDS aircraft (e.g. HH-60). PAA hours are used to establish minimum flying hour requirements for upgrade to aircraft commander, instructor and flight examiner. For upgrade, PAA time includes all categories of flight time logged with the exception of ―other‖ and ―student‖ time.

So in the end, my overall question is, what is required for a guy to get a T-6 instructor job? Do the definitions of total time in the v1 take precedence over SARMS products? How do other communities define total time? What are the no-kidding requirements for a transfer to T-6 instructor? To me, total time is the essence of "air-sense" and begins with the very first T-6 ride.

What do you guys think?

100th Question of the night:

Has anyone heard of a helicopter guy switching airframes after a T-6 instructor gig? For instance, could a guy go from the 60 to the T-6 to the C-17, etc?

[HercDude]

So what exactly is the problem - they guy who is supposed to go to T-6s doesn't meet the time requirements?

Do you have something that says what is currently required to send a guy to PIT? When I went in 2007 you had to be an AC to go to T-1s or T-38s, but not T-6s. I think it may have said something to the effect that you can go to T-6 PIT as long as you have completed Aircraft Commander school, but didn't say anything about being certified as an AC. I knew a guy from -130s who went to AC school, came home and never certed, then PCS'd to Vance for T-6s.

Also, there is a SARMS reg (13-201 I think) that defines the different types of times a pilot can log - you're answer may be in there.

[SCRIMP]

1: What are the actual requirements to PCS from the HH-60 to T-6 PIT and than Instructor?

2: Do the definitions of total time in the v1 take precedence over SARMS products?

3: How do other communities define total time?

4: Has anyone heard of a helicopter guy switching airframes after a T-6 instructor gig? For instance, could a guy go from the 60 to the T-6 to the C-17, etc?

There are a lot of fundamental problems in this scenario. We are waiting to hear back from ACC, but I am trying to find out some "outside the box" information.

[C17Driver]

1: What are the actual requirements to PCS from the HH-60 to T-6 PIT and than Instructor?

2: Do the definitions of total time in the v1 take precedence over SARMS products?

3: How do other communities define total time?

4: Has anyone heard of a helicopter guy switching airframes after a T-6 instructor gig? For instance, could a guy go from the 60 to the T-6 to the C-17, etc?

There are a lot of fundamental problems in this scenario. We are waiting to hear back from ACC, but I am trying to find out some "outside the box" information.

Have you looked at the 11-2T-6v1? Have you went to the etca (education and training announcements) for the administrative and reporting requirements?

There are multiple T-6 IPs that were not aircraft commanders prior to arriving (MAF dudes that got non-vol'd before upgrading from First Pilot). It's all waiverable.

[stract]

first pilot = AC. Any FP time logged is AC time.

#4: no, the ones I've known to go to white jets always came back to the community when they were done with that tour (I know of at least 4), or got off active duty.

[guineapigfury]

This always confused me. If it's ok to take a brand new post-UPT Lt and make him a FAIP, why is someone with a greater level of experience not acceptable?

[Seriously]

This always confused me. If it's ok to take a brand new post-UPT Lt and make him a FAIP, why is someone with a greater level of experience not acceptable?

Students are dangerous; MWS guys are deadly.

[Kilgore Trout]

This always confused me. If it's ok to take a brand new post-UPT Lt and make him a FAIP, why is someone with a greater level of experience not acceptable?

Why was LeBron James one of the best in the NBA straight out of high school when there were guys that had played or sat the bench in the league for years?

[sky_king]

This always confused me. If it's ok to take a brand new post-UPT Lt and make him a FAIP, why is someone with a greater level of experience not acceptable?

Sounds like some body is bitter because they got sat down a few times.

[Champ Kind]

This always confused me. If it's ok to take a brand new post-UPT Lt and make him a FAIP, why is someone with a greater level of experience not acceptable?

Students are dangerous; MWS guys are deadly.

Why was LeBron James one of the best in the NBA straight out of high school when there were guys that had played or sat the bench in the league for years?

Sounds like some body is bitter because they got sat down a few times.

LOL! An "MWS-guy" vs FAIP poo-flinging AETC extravaganza.

BODN, you never disappoint.

[guineapigfury]

LOL! An "MWS-guy" vs FAIP poo-flinging AETC extravaganza. BODN, you never disappoint.

Well there's some boobies. Now all we need is Rainman to show up and debrief each individual comment on the last 6 posts and the BODN experience will be complete. Just doing my part.

[HeloDude]

The said person will either go back to a 60 or a Huey as the manning requirements for Hueys are increasing and AFPC wold likely not release you outside of a helo billet.