Don't know what to tell you, other that part of it is that a relatively recent (last 6 years or so) development in the B-1 is to make all aircraft commanders mission leads. Their are different requirements for them per the Vol 1, but most squadron commanders won't put someone through AC upgrade without doing mission lead at the same time. I wonder if the B-52 aircraft commanders are similarly qualified.

You are correct in that our community almost always likes to kill the two birds with one stone; however, we have a lot of FAIPs (and I mean a lot) in my Bone squadron that are AC only until they learn the tactics well enough to become MLs. It's working out well.

Skitzo already relayed that...SocialD is curious about WSOs that hate pilots.

No idea.

Honestly, by the time most of our guys graduate the FTU, we've beaten anything other than mild, friendly rivalry out of them. Without the pilots, the WSOs have a $283 million doorstop. Without the WSOs, the pilots may as well be flying a Learjet...pilots can't drop weapons, see the radar, employ the jammers, or even make updates to the navigation system.

No idea.

Honestly, by the time most of our guys graduate the FTU, we've beaten anything other than mild, friendly rivalry out of them. Without the pilots, the WSOs have a $283 million doorstop. Without the WSOs, the pilots may as well be flying a Learjet...pilots can't drop weapons, see the radar, employ the jammers, or even make updates to the navigation system.

that reminds me of the blackbird guys

off-topic, but has there ever been studies of the efficacies of a crewed aircraft vs solo aircraft in terms of mission success/accuracy/etc?

off-topic, but has there ever been studies of the efficacies of a crewed aircraft vs solo aircraft in terms of mission success/accuracy/etc?

I think there are so many more facets to that question than just crew vs solo that it would be difficult to legitimately quantify...but if you just wanted a number comparison it certainly wouldn't be too difficult

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but if you just wanted a number comparison it certainly wouldn't be too difficult

Lets say on a decent day any given dude has 90% SA on everything going on in the AO. Average a crew of two's SA level and you get 81% SA. I don't know about you, but I'd rather be one man with 90% SA than two with 81%, or even worse, 4 with 66%! SA = Directly correlated with performance. Math, you just can't argue with it.

Edited October 13, 201411 yr by brabus

Lets say on a decent day any given dude has doesn't have 10% SA on everything going on in the AO. Average a crew of two's lack-of-SA level and you get 1% lack-of-SA. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not be one man with 90% SA than but two with 99%, or even worse better, 4 with 99.99%! SA = Directly correlated with performance. Math, you just can't argue with it.

FIFY.

all good points, i was just interested as the Bone has always fascinated me from the point that all the pilot does is fly, all the WSO does is shoot ect. you would wonder if that led the pilot to have better piloting SA and the WSO with better offensive/defensive SA

all good points, i was just interested as the Bone has always fascinated me from the point that all the pilot does is fly, all the WSO does is shoot ect.

Wow, what?

Wow, what?

is it not correct that the pilot has no input on the weapons systems, ie the WSO commands the weapons from target acquisition to off the rails firing? vice versa, the WSO is in the back with no visual SA and can only relay command to the pilot to execute (ie flying the plane/mission)

is it not correct that the pilot has no input on the weapons systems, ie the WSO commands the weapons from target acquisition to off the rails firing? vice versa, the WSO is in the back with no visual SA and can only relay command to the pilot to execute (ie flying the plane/mission)

SMM

is it not correct that the pilot has no input on the weapons systems, ie the WSO commands the weapons from target acquisition to off the rails firing? vice versa, the WSO is in the back with no visual SA and can only relay command to the pilot to execute (ie flying the plane/mission)

That's a far cry from "all the pilot does is fly, all the WSO does is shoot" which is a pretty ignorant statement.

For those of us not savvy...what are the workloads/responsibilities for each member?

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That's a far cry from "all the pilot does is fly, all the WSO does is shoot" which is a pretty ignorant statement.

oh i agree 100 percent, i just was simplifying the comparison vs say the WSO in a strike eagle that actually has flight controls. I second di1630 in wanting to know more about the delineation between the roles

Edited October 14, 201411 yr by dvlax40

This whole thread got creepy to me and if anyone posts anything more than what has already been said I'd wager to say that it's borderline OPSEC.

If you want more details than what you can find on here or Wikipedia pm someone with a valid .mil email address.

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"Where are your bombs and missiles, and can I count them?"

"Where are your bombs and missiles, and can I count them?"

Exactly

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I will say that it was an interesting dynamic hearing how the crew generally works together CRM-wise and duties/expectations therein, that came to light from the Diego Garcia gear up.

I will say that it was an interesting dynamic hearing how the crew generally works together CRM-wise and duties/expectations therein, that came to light from the Diego Garcia gear up.

Crew CRM and human factors stuff were more of the things i was interested in from a flying perspective, not necessarily specific mission related details.

Calm down people, nobody is looking for anything that violates Opsec. Simple CRM tasks, should not be hard to discuss.

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Simple CRM tasks, should not be hard to discuss.

I don't know, based on the incredibly exciting and not-at-all-dry-and-boring 6-9 hour contractor CRM brief every year, apparently it is.

Not sure what you want to know about CRM. I don't think it is any different than another crew aircraft. Everybody on the crew has specific duties and expectations that need to be met to make the mission successful.

I guess im just interested in the fact that the two pilots up front (from my understanding) are delegating threat detection to the Defensive officer, and then taking directions to the target from the offensive officer and whether that added link in communication is critical time lost, or that the synergy of allowing someone to focus all of their attention (or a hell of a lot more of it) on a specific task makes up for/exceeds any time lost in the communications relay

Just to clarify, in my human factors classes at school most of my studies focused on cockpit design and ergonomics and the SR71 was an interesting study in that the navigator was in a separate compartment from the pilot with no primary flight controls. His job, from what i can remember, was to solely focus on navigating (important task when traveling at mach 3). I was wondering if the reasoning was similar considering this aircraft started out as a strategic low-level strike role.

Edited October 16, 201411 yr by dvlax40

In the B-1, the role of all 4 crew members is to have SA on what every other person is doing. The mechanics of how that is accomplished is specific to each person, but generally everybody knows what everybody else is doing/accomplishing.

In a crew A/C the role of all crew members is to have SA on what every other person is doing. The mechanics of how that is accomplished is specific to each person, but generally everybody knows what everybody else is doing/accomplishing.

Dvlax, Only worrying about your specific role in any kind of crew A/C is not the way to do it

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Edited October 16, 201411 yr by hispeed7721

this ^^^

we split the duties up to make each crew member more effective in their specific job, which can cause a delay due to the added communication.This is not the case.

"Bone, Match Sparkle"