RPA Crossflow Results

[SurelySerious]

I hear they're looking for a new OG exec. A brand new SOS grad seems like the perfect choice.

[PolyestherDuck]

No retribution for VSP my ass!

I choked on my Ensure while reading this.

[Guest Ponis]

Just finishing Shoe Clerk Appreciation by correspondance. I learned that finance officers should tell war stories about their combat experiences to better prepare others for war.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Ponis

[Guest Ponis]

Some info from the cross flow results...

"The board met on 22 Mar 11 and considered the records of 544 officers. 477 officers were recategorized to the RPA MWS and will be managed by the AFPC RPA assignment team and developed by the CAF or SOF assignment team, as appropriate. Of these, 412 were volunteers. The board carefully reviewed the record of each non-volunteer prior to making the recategorization decision. Additionally, 67 officers were not recategorized and will be managed by their previous AFPC MWS assignment team and developed by their current DT."

"For those not recategorized, their previous MWS assignment team will work an assignment as RPA operational requirements allow, which may take some time to return each officer to other rated requirements. However, each officer will have a fair and equitable opportunity to compete for their follow on assignment."

By my count, 12 of the 477 are UPT direct volunteers, including one from the original eight LT's.

[BFM this]

Some info from the cross flow results...

"The board met on 22 Mar 11 and considered the records of 544 officers. 477 officers were recategorized to the RPA MWS and will be managed by the AFPC RPA assignment team and developed by the CAF or SOF assignment team, as appropriate. Of these, 412 were volunteers. The board carefully reviewed the record of each non-volunteer prior to making the recategorization decision. Additionally, 67 officers were not recategorized and will be managed by their previous AFPC MWS assignment team and developed by their current DT."

"For those not recategorized, their previous MWS assignment team will work an assignment as RPA operational requirements allow, which may take some time to return each officer to other rated requirements. However, each officer will have a fair and equitable opportunity to compete for their follow on assignment."

By my count, 12 of the 477 are UPT direct volunteers, including one from the original eight LT's.

So, if I'm following this saga correctly, the 477 recats will never have a chance to meet another parole board?

400 were voluntary recats from previous MWSs? (412 total vols - 12 UPT dudes)

544 seems like a big number for this board to meet. Is the board expected to keep meeting once a year, reviewing [x] # of dudes that are 3(?) years in the field?

Why are they even reviewing voluntary recats? (I'm guessing the same reason that I have to submit RIF paperwork...)

[SurelySerious]

Why are they even reviewing voluntary recats? (I'm guessing the same reason that I have to submit RIF paperwork...)

Part of it has to do with that career field pyramid AFPC swears by, since they are in effect constructing a new community. They actually turned down a number of volunteers at higher rank levels.

[Learjetter]

Part of it has to do with that career field pyramid AFPC swears by, since they are in effect constructing a new community. They actually turned down a number of volunteers at higher rank levels.

Yes, they did. I volunteered, twice--maybe it takes three times before they believe you....or, they won't take me because to volunteer is crazy, and they don't want crazy in the container...

[GovernmentMan]

Well, they requisitioned a fair bit of crazy last year when they picked up an old gunship pilot of some infamy. I think he fulfilled their crazy quota through FY 2013.

[Rifleman96]

544 seems like a big number for this board to meet. Is the board expected to keep meeting once a year, reviewing [x] # of dudes that are 3(?) years in the field?

The original plan is for the crossflow board to occur every 6 months. We haven't heard any news of the date for the next board. But since everybody that has been released will not be moving until no earlier than Jan/Feb '12, I can see them pushing it out to a year. Only one more board should be necessary to cover previous MWS guys for release. After that it is primarily UPT guys that, according to Big Blue, will move onto a real aircraft, expect them to start moving beginning in 2013. (Most UPT guys aren't holding their breath for the AF to uphold their word)

[SurelySerious]

(Most UPT guys aren't holding their breath for the AF to uphold their word)

When they were opening whiteman, one of the upt direct guts wanted to pcs there. Initially AFPC told him he couldn't do that without losing his follow on training spot. Eventually he bargained to keep a spot, with the penalty of a year longer in UAVs. So there's the glimmer of hope.

[BFM this]

Only one more board should be necessary to cover previous MWS guys for release.

How so? MWS guys have always been getting non-vol'd. And it continues. So after the board is done looking at the last UPT dude, is it auto-recat thereafter?

[Rifleman96]

How so? MWS guys have always been getting non-vol'd. And it continues. So after the board is done looking at the last UPT dude, is it auto-recat thereafter?

That is all up to speculation. The crossflow board was meant primarily to fill and develop the RPA world with an initial group of pilots. It just so happens that one good result is a few guys being released back to CAF/MAF/SOF needs other than RPA. The AF has said that the assignment freeze is over, so hopefully this will just become a one tour thing for guys from previous MWS's and they can get normal assignments afterwards.

[BFM this]

so hopefully this will just become a one tour thing for guys from previous MWS's and they can get normal assignments afterwards.

The check is in the mail

Edited May 11, 2011 by BFM this

[matmacwc]

Easy grasshopper, who told them they could not 7-day opt? Their commander? You can 7-day opt ANYTHING that takes you after your UPT commitment, trust me on this one. If a commander tells you that you cannot 7-day opt, do it on the RIP, then go to AF portal and do it through the separations module, that second part is the key, CC can do nothing about it. I just saw a dude 7-day opt a Whiteman UAS with 2.5 years left on his commitment, it can be done, don't believe CC's that tell you no.

[matmacwc]

The issue in the in my Sq right now is that the only ADSC mentioned on the RIP was the 2yrs for the PCS. They had 2+ years remaining so no dice with the 7-day opt. Now the ADSC for training is taking them beyond their service commitment, but since "accepted" the training they are out of luck (both at the base IG level now). I can confirm that I had no ADSC on my RIP for IQT, just 2yrs for the PCS. IN addition to this, they are also moving people even though they 7-day opt the assignment (one Creech to Holloman and one A-10 to Creech come to mind). They are just waiving the ADSC... and with the way things are going I can see a case where they will later find that they incurred an additional ADSC for the training that they "accepted". I think the UAV puppet masters have been given a wink and a nod to do what they must to make this machine run. There is some really shady stuff going on here.

Sorry bro, I think there is some MPF people that don't know their job and some pilots that need to study the reg's a bit more, know the reg's, know your options. I'm not saying that is the way it should be, but that is the way it is. Good luck to the people with complaints at the IG, hopefully they can pin it on the MPF.

[fatboy]

These little tidbits were added to the ADSC reg at the end of '09. Within a month, my rpa unit was ordered to send up all IP's names through MPF so they can be tagged with a 2 year ADSC retroactively for our mickey-mouse 5 day in-house IP upgrade (we expanded it since). We fought it and they backed away from the retroactive ADSCs, but if you believe AFPC won't change the rules mid-stream and prey on the fact you're not an expert in their regs, you haven't been in the rpa community long enough.

IC-1 TO AFI 36-2107, ACTIVE DUTY SERVICE COMMITMENTS

25 NOVEMBER 2009

*SUMMARY OF CHANGES

*c. Rated officers who retrain into another rated career field (e.g., air battle manager who retrains as a navigator or pilot),

crossflow to a different weapons system (basic qualification) or aircraft airframe will incur the full ADSC

for that training even if that ADSC extends beyond the officer’s 10th year of rated service.

*15. Members selected for in-unit or unit funded courses will still incur any applicable ADSC for that course.

For those courses not updated in OTA the base MPF/MPS will forward HQ AFPC/DPSOTES the member’s

name, SSAN, course ID, class start date and class graduation date.

Edited May 12, 2011 by fatboy

[BFM this]

[threat template]

Good to know. Are they still holding to this policy for new up's?

[chim richalds]

Anybody know of prior-mws guys getting released recently?

[BADFNZ]

Easy grasshopper, who told them they could not 7-day opt? Their commander? You can 7-day opt ANYTHING that takes you after your UPT commitment, trust me on this one. If a commander tells you that you cannot 7-day opt, do it on the RIP, then go to AF portal and do it through the separations module, that second part is the key, CC can do nothing about it. I just saw a dude 7-day opt a Whiteman UAS with 2.5 years left on his commitment, it can be done, don't believe CC's that tell you no.

As a young guy, I definitely didn't know about this. So if you 7-day opt out of an assignment that brings you past your UPT ADSC, do you just finish up your ADSC at your current base?

[Jughead]

So if you 7-day opt out of an assignment that brings you past your UPT ADSC, do you just finish up your ADSC at your current base?

The option (the "opt" in "7-day opt") refers to your option to accept or decline any additional ADSC associated with a RIP. If you do nothing, you are deemed to have accepted it.

If you exercise your option to decline, any existing ADSC(s) is/are unaffected. Where you finish up that/those ADSC(s) is up to Big Blue.

[JPStryker]

Sorry bro, I think there is some MPF people that don't know their job and some pilots that need to study the reg's a bit more, know the reg's, know your options. I'm not saying that is the way it should be, but that is the way it is. Good luck to the people with complaints at the IG, hopefully they can pin it on the MPF.

So true. Nobody reads regs as well as pilots. I've been told wrong by MPF, finance, etc on countless occasions, and I'm not just talking about A1C Snuffy. I've gotten bad dope from NCOs as well (which, nowadays, is about equivalent to A1C Snuffy from 15 - 20 yrs ago). If I've got potentially life-altering decisions to make, you can bet your ass I'm not going to rely on anyone in the MSG to lay out my options. I'm going to the book.

[BADFNZ]

The option (the "opt" in "7-day opt") refers to your option to accept or decline any additional ADSC associated with a RIP. If you do nothing, you are deemed to have accepted it.

If you exercise your option to decline, any existing ADSC(s) is/are unaffected. Where you finish up that/those ADSC(s) is up to Big Blue.

So what if you're 2 years away from your ADSC and you do the 7-day opt out? Will they generally still PCS you?

[matmacwc]

Talk to your AFPC dude, they can but probably will not PCS you. With 2 years left though, you might be looking at a 365.

[Guest]

I've seen more than one person go to Korea with 11 months left in their ADSC.

[mjk5401]

Talk to your AFPC dude, they can but probably will not PCS you. With 2 years left though, you might be looking at a 365.

The big thing at Nellis for 16s were 365 to SW Asia. After multiple people 7 day opted, the CC got smart and started finding people who were close, but couldn't opt out. Talk about a shitty way to thin the forces. It is mind blowing that we spend millions in training and right when we have "experts" in their respective field, we run them out. Creech does the same thing. The OG/CC has a board of everyone's ADSC / TOS / and calculates who can and can't opt out. As Porkchop said, it's all about building the machine.

AF Leadership needs to get their heads out of their asses and look at the Guard / Reserve model. AND / OR create two tracks for aircrew. One in which you grow Generals and the other where you grow Aircrew Experts. Exempt all aircrew from bullshit queep like school via correspondence followed by in-residence all while being gone 200+ days a year. Oh and checking a stupid box for a worthless Masters. If we want our Generals to be smart, then send them to AFIT and other prominent schools. Not a shit hole school formally known as Toro / TUI / Trident. If we respect our Aircrew Experts, they'll want to stay in and serve longer. Theres no reason we shouldn't be getting 30 years of great service out of Aircrew. Pay and treat them well and we would save Billions in training cost alone. Not to mention, be able to kick anyones ass in the world. I wouldn't mind capping at Major or Lt Col if I was justly compensated for time in service. I would love to fly the line / be a work horse for 30 yrs. Just let me do my job and be a Pilot.