Prosuper Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Been there done that on both of those. So if you can't have FOD on the ramp or in the FOD can, just were the fvck are you supposed to keep it before you can get to the authorized FOD disposal place? Also, I can understand trying to keep the forms (781As, Ks, etc...) somewhat clean, but that's one major BS write up if you ask me. On the loss of stripe thing please tell me it ain't so. Holy batsh*t! Just WTF is going on out there these days?? On a similiar note and not to sidetrack the thread: Kunsan 1992; both guys on my load crew were written up by the 1st Sgt during a dorm inspection for not having their beds made. The fact that they were asleep in same beds at time of the 0900 inspection after a 12+ hour swing shift was no excuse IAW the shirt after the Weapons flight chief and I tried to fight the situation. The bullsh*t is everywhere.... I'm a contractor now but still work with my boys, a SSgt just lost a stripe because a Amn had a DSV and he happened to be on the other side of the acft when it happened at a deployed location. I like the USN/USMC idea where pilots take full ownership of the whole process and get rid of some of these AFMC shoes who's only purpose is to order up briefings on how to stop acft from breaking, easy don't fly them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scooby Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I'm a contractor now but still work with my boys, a SSgt just lost a stripe because a Amn had a DSV and he happened to be on the other side of the acft when it happened at a deployed location. I like the USN/USMC idea where pilots take full ownership of the whole process and get rid of some of these AFMC shoes who's only purpose is to order up briefings on how to stop acft from breaking, easy don't fly them. Ugh....QA in AFMC is no f*cking joke. We were selected as a test base for a new QA program in the LRS...it's pure insanity. Every single minor mistake needs root cause analysis, corrective action plan, etc. Who cares if we're doing the mission in a safe and effective manner when the lettering on our ladders is blue instead of red! Yea, that was a real write up... I need to get the hell out of AMFC. This place is a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaJu Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I know it's been stated, and flamed before. . but. .there is not a rift between mx and ops in the navy/usmc air wing (there is at times tension but everyone is on the same page) Mx officer (AMO) = pilot (04), reports to CC line shack (flight line)OIC = pilot (03), reports to AMO airframe OIC = you guessed it. . pilot (03), reports to AMO Avionics OIC = same Ordies OIC = same seat shop = same mx control (admin/sched types) = same QA = same it works. . everyone is on the same sheet, same objective, etc. . etc . . It wasnt unusual to see a pilot loading mk 82's with his boys after supper, sure beat hell out of scheduling or training. big blue will never do it because everyone thinks they're the reason for the season.. I can only speak for USMC, but everyone in the organization knew that warheads on foreheads was the only reason we converted oxygen. Don't the Navy and USMC also have aircraft mx officers? Where do they fit into the picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arg Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I remember when (just prior to AFSOC being born) Mx/Ops in the same squadron and in debrief a conversation came up about whether or not it was an Ops/Mx late take off. I asked “what does it matter?” “We still have to keep track of that”. MK, if I remember right there were a string of positive tests in the late 80s from bases in FL. Come to find out it was cross contamination at the test site. All, QA is no different than StanEval. You got your good ones and bad ones. Remember the old saying. “If he cant fly make him an instructor, if he can’t instruct, make him an evaluator” There is a grain of truth on both sides here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosuper Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Don't the Navy and USMC also have aircraft mx officers? Where do they fit into the picture? Well if the pilots owned the process they would be more concerned on how mx is done than the color of PPT slides. Plus they would feel the same pain if they are out there 0300 on Xmas day trying to fix a nagging NMC write up. I think it would make them have more of a clue when they hit the O-5,6,7 level since most MX officers don't make it that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Remember the old saying. “If he cant fly make him an instructor, if he can’t instruct, make him an evaluator” There is a grain of truth on both sides here. No, I don't. Is that a Herbivore thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKopack Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 MK, if I remember right there were a string of positive tests in the late 80s from bases in FL. Come to find out it was cross contamination at the test site. Well that would just about suck. At the same time, as I said, it was the Miami Vice days of the 80's and from what I understand there was a lot available if you decided "to partake". Figured I'd be better off to stick with the booze and at that time the 21 year old drinking age, well, let's just say there was some 'leeway'. Our dorm made Animal House look like kindergarten. Thought that was over when we got a new hard-assed, spit and polish, First Shirt from the Hospital Sqdn - until a couple of weeks later when on a surprise dorm inspection found his daughter busy 'supporting squadron morale'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagasticks Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Don't the Navy and USMC also have aircraft mx officers? Where do they fit into the picture? all of the above billets are "mx officers". We had one MOS'd mx officer and he was an lt, basically the AMO's exec. There was also some mx officers that were CWO's in ordie, and avionics because those 2 shops were way too big for one pilot to manage while maintaining all currencies etc, the CWO's reported to the "pilot in charge" though. Most of these Mx CWO's (maybe all of them) were enlisted maintainers that got selected by the squadron on a board to be promoted. Keep in mind there is no MX group or squadron. There is a MAG/CAG (think wing) and then the flying squadrons (MX included). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosuper Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 all of the above billets are "mx officers". We had one MOS'd mx officer and he was an lt, basically the AMO's exec. There was also some mx officers that were CWO's in ordie, and avionics because those 2 shops were way too big for one pilot to manage while maintaining all currencies etc, the CWO's reported to the "pilot in charge" though. Most of these Mx CWO's (maybe all of them) were enlisted maintainers that got selected by the squadron on a board to be promoted. Keep in mind there is no MX group or squadron. There is a MAG/CAG (think wing) and then the flying squadrons (MX included). CWO's that would be great for alot of AF MSgts that don't play the Chief game of stabbing thy fellow Airman in the back. By the time you make MSgt you don't touch a toolbox again unless your in Gaurd/Reserve. Sounds like a good way to keep guys around who know how to get shit done. How is the USN/USMC QA program, does it get tasked by Sq CC's or or the Air Wing, do you staff it with competent troops or little pricks you want to get rid of. Alot of USAF MX officers are prior E's who came out of mx but some of them have no mx background when a 7 level NCO is explaining what is wrong with a jet and the T.O. is not helping except for the wiring schematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crew Report Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 No, I don't. Is that a Herbivore thing? Yeah. Those that can't do, instruct. Those that can't instruct, evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learjetter Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Yeah. Those that can't do, instruct. Those that can't instruct, evaluate. ....and those who can't evaluate, command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Yeah. Those that can't do, instruct. Those that can't instruct, evaluate. Good to know that there is a natural weeding out process of the weak-dicks in the heavy community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepileit Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Nice thread drift. At least in AMC... Every A-coded line slug A/C on a crew jet is an instructor and evaluator. Unfortunately, some take too long to figure that out. AMC has always seemed to me to want your career to include MWS IP time, as best I can tell. Lots of commanders have been EPs- so that's an easy joke to make. Can you fly respectably from both seats, talk while doing so, run a sortie somewhat logically, brief and debrief the way you're supposed to? Great, on paper it's easy to be an IP. Doesn't mean you'll be good. I think it's where your students/upgrades go that matters. If you can apply the Vol 2 you could be an EP. If only it was just that easy. I know I still haven't flown the perfect pro-sortie, mission, or checkride. I've seen some come damn close. Those are good days. Back to reality- new C-17 SIB is out on AFSAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosuper Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Another one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateAF Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Back to reality- new C-17 SIB is out on AFSAS. Can't wait to read this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 12XU2A3X3 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Another one "i know you don't" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck17 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Back to reality- new C-17 SIB is out on AFSAS. Flameout? Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarheadBoom Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Don't the Navy and USMC also have aircraft mx officers? Where do they fit into the picture? They do have MOS-designated Aircraft Maintenance Officers, but they are usually at the MALS (Marine Aviation Logistics Squadron) or the AIMD (Aviation Intermediate Maintenance Department). 9 times out of 10, they're not pilots, but they're usually mustangs, and some have aircrew experience as an E. The MALS/AIMD are the next higher level of maintenance, roughly comparable to "back shops" in the AF. How is the USN/USMC QA program, does it get tasked by Sq CC's or or the Air Wing, do you staff it with competent troops or little pricks you want to get rid of. Every USN/USMC flying squadron has a QA shop; this is part of the NAMP (Naval Aviation Maintenance Program). It's generally staffed by at least one person from each specialty within the maintenance dept., and they're not shitbags (most of the time). They're mostly SNCOs, and the QA Chief is usually a Gunny/CPO or MSgt/SCPO (E-7 or E-8, for those unfamiliar with USN/USMC enlisted rank structure). The QA Chief is directly responsible to the Commanding Officer on all matters related to Quality Assurance, and it's a rare instance when a CO does not listen carefully to his QA Chief. There's a shit-load more detail I could get into, but I'll save it for another thread... edit: added multi-quote. Edited January 17, 2011 by JarheadBoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Flameout? Chuck Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) Yes. Easy....AIB isn't out yet. Edited January 18, 2011 by matmacwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crew Report Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Easy....AIB isn't out yet. So now privileged information includes discussion if a SIB is on AFSAS yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 So now privileged information includes discussion if a SIB is on AFSAS yet? I'm not quite sure I understand what you said here. BASEOPS.net is not AFSAS, the report is on there though, read it last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) I'm not quite sure I understand what you said here. BASEOPS.net is not AFSAS, the report is on there though, read it last week. What he said was, 1) Moosepileit said the C-17 SIB was on AFSAS 2) Chuck 17 asked which C-17 incident it was 3) I answered in the affirmative that it was the one he indicated (haven't read the report yet so I'm not privy to anything other than what has been in the news) 4) You told me to be be careful since the AIB wasn't out yet. 5) Crew Report asked if saying a specific SIB was posted on AFSAS was now somehow privileged information. Here in the news and here in the news... I think you misunderstood much more than what Crew Report asked. No one believes Baseops to be AFSAS and no information that is priviledged or otherwise protected, AIB complete or not, has been posted in this thread. Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming... Edited January 18, 2011 by Herk Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crew Report Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'm not quite sure I understand what you said here. BASEOPS.net is not AFSAS, the report is on there though, read it last week. No, I'm pretty sure you knew exactly what I said. BASEOPS.net is not AFSAS, nor is stating that a certain mishap SIB is now on AFSAS is compromising privileged information. Here's a rundown on privileged information since you don't understand. "Hey, did you hear about the C-17 that flamed out?" <~~~~~~ Not compromising privileged information "Hey, did you hear about the C-17 that flamed out? I think it was cause of [insert speculating]." <~~~~ Compromising privileged information since one is speculating on the cause of the mishap Don't believe me? This is exactly what was briefed to all the aircrew by Chief of Wing Safety at my base for our annual safety mishap training. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 This new twist in the thread sounds like most of my checkride debriefs when I would ask my wingman/SEFE why he sucked during the sortie. "I didn't understand what you said." "Yes you did." "No I didn't." "Yes, you did." "No I didn't" "Look, there's a big difference between 'I didn't understand what you said' and 'I wasn't good enough or I didn't have enough SA to execute what you said'." "I don't understand what you're saying." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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