Tyndall to Gain T-38 Detachment

[GoAround]

Pretty cool gig...

LeMieux: Tyndall to Gain T-38 Detachment

BY: Unattributed , WMBB News 13

11/30/2010

Washington, DC: U.S. Senator George LeMieux (R-FL) today announced the Air Force will be sending a T-38 detachment to Tyndall Air Force Base. The ten T-38s will provide dedicated adversary support to the F-22s currently stationed at the base.

“This is fantastic news for Tyndall Air Force Base and the Panama City area,” said LeMieux, a member of the U.S. Senate Armed Service Committee. “This detachment will complement the existing F-22 program operating out of Tyndall. Bringing more planes to the area will also bring more jobs, increasing economic activity throughout North Florida.”

The Air Force will station ten T-38s at Tyndall AFB, with the first round of planes arriving on base by the end of September 2011. The remaining five are expected to be in place at Tyndall by the end of March 2012. The T-38 Talon is a twin-engine, high-altitude, supersonic jet trainer used in a variety of roles because of its design, performance and safety record. Air Education and Training Command is the primary user of the T-38 for joint specialized pilot training.

http://www.panhandleparade.com/index.php/mbb/article/lemieux_tyndall_to_gain_t-38_detachment/mbb7726974/

[Hacker]

How is that pork barrel?

It saves a crapload of time/gas/maintenance on Raptors acting as their own adversaries, plus it solves a number of problems with Raptors fighting each other.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

they'll just tell cool stories of fighting Mig-28s

[HuggyU2]

Are they getting A-models from Korea or Taiwan?

[GoAround]

How is that pork barrel?

It saves a crapload of time/gas/maintenance on Raptors acting as their own adversaries, plus it solves a number of problems with Raptors fighting each other.

Take a chillax pill broseph..."Pork barrel is a derogatory term referring to appropriation of government spending for localized projects secured solely or primarily to bring money to a representative's district."

[Danny Noonin]

Same kind of gig will be happening at Langley. Holloman still has T-38s left over from the stinkbug days too

[Dupe]

Same kind of gig will be happening at Langley. Holloman still has T-38s left over from the stinkbug days too

When the Raptors move from Holloman, there won't be a huge need for ACC-owned T-38s there. I imagine those airframes will go to Tyndall.

[HuggyU2]

When the Raptors move from Holloman, there won't be a huge need for ACC-owned T-38s there. I imagine those airframes will go to Tyndall.

Correct, but I believe they have less than 10 ACC aircraft.

[Steve Davies]

The original Aggressors of the 1970s lost four T-38s and six pilots due to delamination of the MLG doors when at 0g and negative g loads. They realised it was unsafe as an adversary platform, which is why they got rid of it. Has that particular limitation now been addressed?

Edited December 2, 2010 by Steve Davies

[Ram]

The T-38 has been used as the USAF's IFF platform for ages. If student pilots can hamfist the T-38 through repetitive BFM sets, I think it'll work just fine as an adversary platform.

[Hacker]

Take a chillax pill broseph..."Pork barrel is a derogatory term referring to appropriation of government spending for localized projects secured solely or primarily to bring money to a representative's district."

I'm pretty well aware what pork means with respect to political decisionmaking, 'broseph'...I'm still trying to figure out what it has to do with standing up a T-38 adversary unit at Tyndall. The implication was that it was a pork project, and my statement is that it's clearly not -- it is a decision that was defined by operational need, and impacts more than just one single base or Representative district.

[Whitty]

They are using F-4s as practice right now. I am guessing this is to act as a replacement for some of those.

[Buddy Spike]

A T-38 is not exactly a push it up adversary. Why not take Block 25s going to the boneyard and use them?

[Ram]

A T-38 is not exactly a push it up adversary. Why not take Block 25s going to the boneyard and use them?

Dolla dolla bills, yo.

Really, what the Raptors need is something to see on radar. Something capable of flying a "fighter-type" profile for realistic presentations. T-38s do this on the cheap. I know of several IFF deployments to Raptor bases for red air.

[TailWind]

Will the 38's be considered companion trainers as well?

[Hacker]

A T-38 is not exactly a push it up adversary. Why not take Block 25s going to the boneyard and use them?

38s are cheaper to operate and maintain, and present a smaller radar, RF, and visual signature than a Viper.

[Pancake]

So who's going to fly these things? Seems like a perfect AFRES opportunity.

[skinny]

I'm bettin on the Tyndall guys being dual qual'd 22/38.

[HuggyU2]

I'm bettin on the Tyndall guys being dual qual'd 22/38.

Absolutely brilliant.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Huggyu2

[Buddy Spike]

38s are cheaper to operate and maintain, and present a smaller radar, RF, and visual signature than a Viper.

Well, I agree with at least some of what you're saying, but this is not the place to get into that argument. What about EA? What timeline are you training against with a T-38? It's a tail only fighter with no radar and a noisemaker for a "simulated AIM-9P."

I'd rather train against Mike Tyson and actually face Simple Jack, than fight Simple Jack every day and get complacent in theater.

[Hacker]

this is not the place to get into that argument. What about EA? What timeline are you training against with a T-38? It's a tail only fighter with no radar and a noisemaker for a "simulated AIM-9P."

I love it. This isn't the place to get into that argument, you say, but now lets' discuss it some more.

The point is, the Raptors have some valid reasons for wanting to have 38s on hand to use as adversaries, and they're perfectly aware what limitations a T-38 brings to that training. I think they're pretty well set in the "Mike Tyson" department, not to worry.

[Danny Noonin]

It's not a choice between a $500/per flying hour T-38 with no radar and a $10-15,000 per flying hour 4th gen fighter adversary.

It's a choice between T-38 and nothing. The only reason this is even on the table is because the airframes were free to acquire and they are super cheap to operate.

[HuggyU2]

Using two invisible, $50K/hr training aids when you need to train up two more pilots aircraft starts to add up.

And lets not forget that these aircraft have an airframe life: each hour you use up zorching around Tyndall is an hour you will not have in 2017 when an adversary needs to be challenged.

We need to accept that we have 184 aircraft, and that's all we get. Use the hours carefully and smartly.

Folks, the USAF is broke. The next 3 years are going to be lean.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Huggyu2

[Cell Dweller]

Well, I agree with at least some of what you're saying, but this is not the place to get into that argument. What about EA? What timeline are you training against with a T-38? It's a tail only fighter with no radar and a noisemaker for a "simulated AIM-9P."

I'd rather train against Mike Tyson and actually face Simple Jack, than fight Simple Jack every day and get complacent in theater.

USAF already has fully trained adversary units as well as operational units to provide various levels of training for the F-22s, such as during Red Flag, or other similar exercises. The T-38s would give a cheap way to practice many TTPs without requiring the expense of putting a bunch of F-22s in the air. The big picture shows that all necessary training capabilities exist. An advocate might even say that the flight-hour and cost savings of using 38s instead of 22s as in-house adversaries would pay for the TDYs required to send the 22s to various exercises.

If money were no object, every fighter wing could have a dedicated adversary/agressor squadron and appropriate range space to train on.

[Beaver]

Shouldn't be too hard to scrounge up 10 T-38's considering 2 out of the 5 IFF squadrons are closing. Maybe a few lucky Smurf drivers can move from the hinterlands to sunny Florida.