Air Force Spending

[Guest CharlieDontSurf]

F-'em both and bring back the Four Horsemen!

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1460

http://www.littlerock.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123197379

Edited August 6, 2010 by CharlieDontSurf

[Danny Noonin]

T-clone costs depend on how you do the accounting. The true costs are spread out among many pots of money. But it's WAY more than 50 grand in the end.

They pay for their own rooms. I think they needed 56 rooms at our show. 90 bucks a room x 4 nights. That's 20 grand in rooms alone...for one show. The airshow pays for their cars (or get them donated, but that's tough in this economy). Something like 30 cars x say 40 bucks x 4 days is ballpark 5 grand. The airshow also pays for their smoke oil. $600 per barrel. Approx one barrel per jet, per show. Not kidding. 2 shows plus a practice works out to over 10 grand in smoke. The airshow also foots miscellaneous other costs...their own tent, tables, chairs, etc. but that's only a couple grand.

We're at probably 37 grand already. All in all, they are expensive for the obvious costs. The not obvious costs are the killer.

Now throw in airlift to get their stuff there. Generally 1 C-17 or 2 C-130s. Plus gas/flying hour costs for the heavy(s). Plus Per diem/rooms/cars for the crew(s). Now throw in the same costs for tankers that they get on the way to most of their shows.

All of that is still chump change. If you want the true costs, take their annual budget + flying hour program + AF costs (personnel costs to the AF, Tricare, facility costs, civilian support staff, plus fuel, parts, oil, mx, etc) and divide that by the number of shows per year and you reach a number that is obscene. That's what it really costs to put on a show. If the public ever knew the total costs they would flip, no matter how cool they think the show is.

I'm not advocating getting rid of them. Not even close. I actually like their shows, regardless of how much I make fun of them and their leotards. They are good dudes (mostly) who work ridiculously hard for 2 years and I think they are the biggest recruiting asset we have. Tell me you didn't love watching them when you were a kid. Tell me you don't stop even today and watch their show if they're in town. They are incredibly effective at their purpose. They are just expensive.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Danny Noonin

[HerkDerka]

Kill TIB and keep the TBirds. We have enough people to fill the ranks. We need to still focus on quality recruits though.

If the quality recruits you're talking about are the same ones facebook addicts that normally haunt finance and the MPF, then I say shit can the T-clones.

F-'em both and bring back the Four Horsemen!

Two.

[Guest Raptor08]

F-'em both and bring back the Four Horsemen!

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1460

http://www.littlerock.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123197379

Those guys are nuts! But I say bring em' back and put em' all in C-17s! That would be something to see.

Sadly the AF will never do it due to the enormous demand for airlift in today's conflicts.

[Hacker]

To the USAF, it's about how they look doing it, not whether it gets done.

Isn't it apparent that this statement is applicable to *everything* the USAF does??

Unfortunately, nearly every aspect of the USAF is more about perception than it is reality. It's more about how things look than how things are. OPRs, awards, medals, hell even calling ourselves 'the world's best air force'...it's all image manufacturing.

A smart man I know compared the USAF to Enron based on precisely this basis, and there were frightening parallels.

Not to say there aren't some amazing people who are doing some phenomenal work, but unfortunately that's not good enough for us. We have to make it look like EVERYONE is doing that kind of work ALL THE TIME.

[Tulsa]

Isn't it apparent that this statement is applicable to *everything* the USAF does??

Unfortunately, nearly every aspect of the USAF is more about perception than it is reality. It's more about how things look than how things are. OPRs, awards, medals, hell even calling ourselves 'the world's best air force'...it's all image manufacturing.

A smart man I know compared the USAF to Enron based on precisely this basis, and there were frightening parallels.

Not to say there aren't some amazing people who are doing some phenomenal work, but unfortunately that's not good enough for us. We have to make it look like EVERYONE is doing that kind of work ALL THE TIME.

2, right to the core of the problem.

[Guest]

...hell even calling ourselves 'the world's best air force'...it's all image manufacturing.

Your premise is valid wrt OPRs and medals but I would exclude your final example. Beyond just claiming we're the best, I believe we have demonstrated (fully acknowledging internal frustration) that the USAF can do what no other air force can do.

In fact, I believe "no one comes close."

[shiznitobam_allstars]

If we're the worlds best Air Force, I would hate to see #2....

[Guest Hueypilot812]

In fact, I believe "no one comes close."

That's only because some communities within the USAF still pride themselves in the results of their endeavors and not the process (ie, ops, mx, etc). Others are wrapped up in this insane idea that the process is what really counts.

Hence why for the past 6 weeks I have been trying to get finance to approve my AETC-funded school travel voucher. I filed it when I got back just before the 4th of July weekend. Since then it has been rejected numerous times through this wonderful program called "eFinance" for a variety of petty, idiotic reasons, to include:

1. I had listed my origination as "Little Rock AR" when my actual home address is "Maumelle AR". WHO THE CARES! It's the same goddamned place you assclowns!!!

2. One copy of a receipt I had uploaded had cut off half of the last digit of the dollar amount (ie, if the amount was 342.48, you could see 342.4 and the 8 was cut in half). Really? I guess they think I'm trying to rip them off of a couple of cents.

3. THREE ING TIMES they asked for a receipt for my $29.03 fuel claim, and THREE ING TIMES I explained it was on the rental car receipt for the Fuel Prepay Option (and it was on the original voucher too).

4. Three times they have kicked back the voucher because "we can't open the files". Really? Because I can get into eFinance and open the ING SIMPLE JPEG FILE myself each and every time. Maybe if you close your ing Facebook account, turn off your iPod and actually TRY to open it, you can view it.

5. The last time, they stated they can only accept PDF files. Really? Then explain why your ing website states it will accept PDF, JPEG, GIF and TIFF/TIF files? The point of the files are having extensions common enough that you can open the document and VIEW it. Who the cares what kind of file it is so long as you can view the document? Again, what USAF computer can't open a ing JPEG? Apparently none of the finance computers are thusly equipped to open such a basic file.

6. This last time they have also stated that one receipt (which I received from TMO via fax, and then had to convert to a PDF file) was "unreadable". Everyone in my squadron has the brain power to read the ing receipt. Why can't finance?

Finally, this debacle now has some of my voucher over 30 days due, and approaching 60 days. If they don't fix this shit soon, I'll have to shell out $1,300 of my own money to avoid getting in trouble with the Wing/CC, which honestly, I want to tell him that I'm LATE because the base assclown shoeclerks can't use a smidge of know how to get their ing job done. All they care about is file types and bullshit queep, not GETTING MY ING VOUCHER PAID.

So...long story short...the USAF is full of types that only care about looking good, despite whether or not they actually accomplish anything meaningful. And to Rainman, the ONLY reason why we still matter and can still get our shit done is because some communities (ok, I'll say it....Ops and Mx) still give a shit about the end product and getting sorties in the air and delivering cargo/bombs/bullets on target, on time.

Somehow I can manage to get my C-130 over a drop zone within 10 seconds of a TOT, but the assclowns that sit in an air conditioned building working from 9-4 can't read a ing JPEG or read comments on a DD1351.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Hueypilot812

[Techsan]

That's only because some communities within the USAF still pride themselves in the results of their endeavors and not the process (ie, ops, mx, etc). Others are wrapped up in this insane idea that the process is what really counts.

Hence why for the past 6 weeks I have been trying to get finance to approve my AETC-funded school travel voucher. I filed it when I got back just before the 4th of July weekend. Since then it has been rejected numerous times through this wonderful program called "eFinance" for a variety of petty, idiotic reasons, to include:

1. I had listed my origination as "Little Rock AR" when my actual home address is "Maumelle AR". WHO THE FUCK CARES! It's the same goddamned place you assclowns!!!

2. One copy of a receipt I had uploaded had cut off half of the last digit of the dollar amount (ie, if the amount was 342.48, you could see 342.4 and the 8 was cut in half). Really? I guess they think I'm trying to rip them off of a couple of cents.

3. THREE FUCKING TIMES they asked for a receipt for my $29.03 fuel claim, and THREE FUCKING TIMES I explained it was on the rental car receipt for the Fuel Prepay Option (and it was on the original voucher too).

4. Three times they have kicked back the voucher because "we can't open the files". Really? Because I can get into eFinance and open the FUCKING SIMPLE JPEG FILE myself each and every time. Maybe if you close your fucking Facebook account, turn off your iPod and actually TRY to open it, you can view it.

5. The last time, they stated they can only accept PDF files. Really? Then explain why your fucking website states it will accept PDF, JPEG, GIF and TIFF/TIF files? The point of the files are having extensions common enough that you can open the document and VIEW it. Who the fuck cares what kind of file it is so long as you can view the document? Again, what USAF computer can't open a fucking JPEG? Apparently none of the finance computers are thusly equipped to open such a basic file.

6. This last time they have also stated that one receipt (which I received from TMO via fax, and then had to convert to a PDF file) was "unreadable". Everyone in my squadron has the brain power to read the fucking receipt. Why can't finance?

Finally, this debacle now has some of my voucher over 30 days due, and approaching 60 days. If they don't fix this shit soon, I'll have to shell out $1,300 of my own money to avoid getting in trouble with the Wing/CC, which honestly, I want to tell him that I'm LATE because the base assclown shoeclerks can't use a smidge of know how to get their fucking job done. All they care about is file types and bullshit queep, not GETTING MY FUCKING VOUCHER PAID.

So...long story short...the USAF is full of types that only care about looking good, despite whether or not they actually accomplish anything meaningful. And to Rainman, the ONLY reason why we still matter and can still get our shit done is because some communities (ok, I'll say it....Ops and Mx) still give a shit about the end product and getting sorties in the air and delivering cargo/bombs/bullets on target, on time.

Somehow I can manage to get my C-130 over a drop zone within 10 seconds of a TOT, but the assclowns that sit in an air conditioned building working from 9-4 can't read a fucking JPEG or read comments on a DD1351.

Nice rant.

I like how the AF paid extra to have the standard leather seats ripped out of C-21s for cloth seats so as to prevent the perception that they are spending tax dollars on lush aircraft interiors. Makes perfect sense.

[Guest Crew Report]

That's only because some communities within the USAF still pride themselves in the results of their endeavors and not the process (ie, ops, mx, etc). Others are wrapped up in this insane idea that the process is what really counts.

Hence why for the past 6 weeks I have been trying to get finance to approve my AETC-funded school travel voucher. I filed it when I got back just before the 4th of July weekend. Since then it has been rejected numerous times through this wonderful program called "eFinance" for a variety of petty, idiotic reasons, to include:

1. I had listed my origination as "Little Rock AR" when my actual home address is "Maumelle AR". WHO THE ###### CARES! It's the same goddamned place you assclowns!!!

2. One copy of a receipt I had uploaded had cut off half of the last digit of the dollar amount (ie, if the amount was 342.48, you could see 342.4 and the 8 was cut in half). Really? I guess they think I'm trying to rip them off of a couple of cents.

3. THREE ######ING TIMES they asked for a receipt for my $29.03 fuel claim, and THREE ######ING TIMES I explained it was on the rental car receipt for the Fuel Prepay Option (and it was on the original voucher too).

4. Three times they have kicked back the voucher because "we can't open the files". Really? Because I can get into eFinance and open the ######ING SIMPLE JPEG FILE myself each and every time. Maybe if you close your ######ing Facebook account, turn off your iPod and actually TRY to open it, you can view it.

5. The last time, they stated they can only accept PDF files. Really? Then explain why your ######ing website states it will accept PDF, JPEG, GIF and TIFF/TIF files? The point of the files are having extensions common enough that you can open the document and VIEW it. Who the ###### cares what kind of file it is so long as you can view the document? Again, what USAF computer can't open a ######ing JPEG? Apparently none of the finance computers are thusly equipped to open such a basic file.

6. This last time they have also stated that one receipt (which I received from TMO via fax, and then had to convert to a PDF file) was "unreadable". Everyone in my squadron has the brain power to read the ######ing receipt. Why can't finance?

Finally, this debacle now has some of my voucher over 30 days due, and approaching 60 days. If they don't fix this shit soon, I'll have to shell out $1,300 of my own money to avoid getting in trouble with the Wing/CC, which honestly, I want to tell him that I'm LATE because the base assclown shoeclerks can't use a smidge of know how to get their ######ing job done. All they care about is file types and bullshit queep, not GETTING MY ######ING VOUCHER PAID.

So...long story short...the USAF is full of types that only care about looking good, despite whether or not they actually accomplish anything meaningful. And to Rainman, the ONLY reason why we still matter and can still get our shit done is because some communities (ok, I'll say it....Ops and Mx) still give a shit about the end product and getting sorties in the air and delivering cargo/bombs/bullets on target, on time.

Somehow I can manage to get my C-130 over a drop zone within 10 seconds of a TOT, but the assclowns that sit in an air conditioned building working from 9-4 can't read a ######ing JPEG or read comments on a DD1351.

That was one time too many. Take it up with the OIC and stop talking to the people at the desk.

[brabus]

Hence why for the past 6 weeks I have been trying to get finance to approve

Same here, except 5.5 months after the fact, $2500 worth of un-reimbursed expense and still "working" the problem.

Take it up with the OIC and stop talking to the people at the desk.

Agreed. However, I took that road about 2 months ago and am now past the OIC at this point...that's how fucked up their process and "ability" is. Unbelievable.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

That was one time too many. Take it up with the OIC and stop talking to the people at the desk.

Did that early in the process...was told I must file everything online through eFinance...received zero help from the "customer service desk" or anyone else at finance. As usual, they move the work off their shoulders and onto yours, and then seem to delight in picking apart the voucher over stupid things. I have now elevated it through the chain of command. Our group RA contacted their flight chief and if it's not going to get resolved, my CC is about to step in. There is just no way it should take this long to approve a voucher.

If you haven't had the pleasure of dealing with eFinance, you will once you attend a non-DTS TDY or PCS.

[DFRESH]

**Awesome story of gettin ass pounded by finance**

So...long story short...the USAF is full of types that only care about looking good, despite whether or not they actually accomplish anything meaningful. And to Rainman, the ONLY reason why we still matter and can still get our shit done is because some communities (ok, I'll say it....Ops and Mx) still give a shit about the end product and getting sorties in the air and delivering cargo/bombs/bullets on target, on time.

I got chewed for questioning the system at FT when I brought up how screwed up it was that mission completion on the LRCs was only like 1 point out of 100. I realize that pales in comparison with the Ops/Mx vs Finance/Etc situation, but notice how they're being taught at a young age to not care about the mission, but only care about how you make your teammates feel.

[Guest]

It is all part of the plan. Big Blue intentionally has people fuck with you every day to make sure you keep your edge.

You need to keep that killer instinct alive somehow...

[Guest Hueypilot812]

It is all part of the plan. Big Blue intentionally has people with you every day to make sure you keep your edge.

You need to keep that killer instinct alive somehow...

Now it all makes sense. Keeps that inner rage going as well. Let's go bomb a in' third world country! That would make me feel better

[pawnman]

I think it's all a plot to make us feel better about deployed operations, when we don't have to deal so much with support organizations (other than, you know, the ones telling you to tuck in your shirt)

[BADFNZ]

My eFinance voucher only got rejected 4 times, so I guess I should feel better. Still took 2 months though.

[Hacker]

I got chewed for questioning the system at FT

That's precisely the reaction I'd expect when a trainee is questioning the training process.

[DFRESH]

That's precisely the reaction I'd expect when a trainee is questioning the training process.

Touche

[DFRESH]

The main point I was trying to make here is that they're teaching that it's not about the mission, it's about whether or not you made everybody feel included in the process. It was one of those times where I got a deep gut feeling like an injustice was being done. Should I have talked back... nope. Do I still feel like they're teaching fresh officers that making their peers feel good about themselves is more important than hacking the mission... yes.