Whitman Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 It's an OPR. You're allowed round up (or down) to the nearest Billion depending on what makes you look better on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluto Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 That's not from Jan 1 2008. You have some 2007 numbers in there. That would be hella scary if those numbers were from just two months. I think theres been 5 so far this year (just a guess). Well I imagine he's talking fiscal year 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefranchise Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 That's not from Jan 1 2008. You have some 2007 numbers in there. That would be hella scary if those numbers were from just two months. I think theres been 5 so far this year (just a guess). the T6s were last year my bad; the rest all of 2008 B2 - 2/23/08 - http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/23/stealth.b...h.ap/index.html F15 x 2 (1 fatal) - 2/20/08 - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8022002774.html E6B - 2/12/08 - http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/02/navy..._crash_080212w/ F15 - 2/1/08 - http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2008/02/...15crash_080202/ F16 - 1/15/08 - http://www.afrc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123082428 F18 x 2 - 1/7/08 - http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01...arplanes.crash/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeHavilland Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 It's an OPR. You're allowed round up (or down) to the nearest Billion depending on what makes you look better on paper. I just pulled my commander to the side this week to tell him his comments on a report were a bit inflated and that mine were more factually based. Adjectives are good, but I make sure I can back them up. Most importantly - Glad the guys got out. The ejection seat comment is superior! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 AF.mil B-2 Fact Sheet Unit cost: Approximately $1.157 billion (fiscal 98 constant dollars) I generally find a number of errors on AF.mil "fact sheets". I don't know how the USAF does their "statistics", but when I divide $44B by 21, I get a little more than $2B. But I'm no math major. I guess that's why the AF says the F-22 costs ~$140M, but it seems to cost more like $325M each. Plenty of good B-2 budgetary documentation. Here's two: http://www.fas.org/man/gao/nsiad97181.htm If you don't want to read the whole thing, go to appendix I, near the bottom. http://www.cdi.org/issues/aviation/B296.html Yet another of the dozens of sources out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cam Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 WRT the cost of the B-2, my understanding is that the DOD literally paid $1.2B each, but when you factor in the cost of R&D, test, etc, added to the sticker price of each B-2, the total cost of the B-2 program divided by the number of aircraft they bought comes out to ~$2.2B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check6 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 (edited) the difference is whether you include the r&d costs or not (which you really should). so to build a B-2 it costs $1.2B, but to design them it cost $18.8B. Edit: ya what he said, beat to the punch while typing it out Edited February 23, 2008 by Tron Carter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cam Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Here is a picture from the Air Force Times: It's hard to tell from that angle, but it looks to me like it hit the main parallel taxiway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jtek Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2008/02/...amcrash_022208/ No munitions on board B-2 that crashed Staff and wire reports Posted : Saturday Feb 23, 2008 16:06:16 EST A B-2 stealth bomber crashed on the runway Saturday at Andersen Air Force Base, Guam, completely destroying the aircraft, an officer at Andersen confirmed. It was the first time a B-2 had ever crashed. The two pilots from the 509th Bomb Wing ejected safely. Both have been checked by medical staff and are in good condition, according to a Pacific Air Forces statement. The aircraft was taking off with three others on their last flight out of Guam after a four-month deployment, part of a continuous U.S. bomber presence in the western Pacific. After the crash, the other three bombers were being kept on Guam, said Maj. Eric Hilliard at Hickham Air Force Base in Hawaii. Area residents told a local TV station they saw black plumes of smoke coming from the base about 10:45 a.m. local time, indicating the aircraft's impact. Emergency vehicles on base immediately reported to the scene of the crash. No other injuries have been reported at Andersen. All 21 stealth bombers are based at Whiteman Air Force Base, Mo., but the Air Force has been rotating several of them through Guam since 2004. Four of the 509th's B-2s are currently deployed to Andersen and were scheduled to return to Missouri now that six B-52s from the 96th Bomb Wing at Barksdale Air Force Base, Louisiana, have arrived to replace them. The $1.2 billion advanced stealth bomber is certified to carry nuclear munitions, but no munitions were on board the B-2 that crashed. There also were no injuries on the ground or damage to buildings. The B-2 that crashed was the second B-2 to take off from Andersen on Saturday morning, according to a KUAM TV news report. The first bomber took off safely, according to the station, but was brought back when the other aircraft plunged to the ground. A board of officers will investigate what caused the bat-like aircraft to crash at 10:30 a.m., shortly after taking off from a runway. It was the first crash of a B-2 bomber, said Capt. Sheila Johnston, a spokeswoman for Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mjk5401 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 the T6s were last year my bad; the rest all of 2008 B2 - 2/23/08 - http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/23/stealth.b...h.ap/index.html F15 x 2 (1 fatal) - 2/20/08 - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8022002774.html E6B - 2/12/08 - http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/02/navy..._crash_080212w/ F15 - 2/1/08 - http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2008/02/...15crash_080202/ F16 - 1/15/08 - http://www.afrc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123082428 F18 x 2 - 1/7/08 - http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01...arplanes.crash/ My bad as well. I thought the 18s were before christmas, but I was to lazy to do the research. Thanks for the links, and yes, it has been a shitty year with or without the T6s. In regards to the cost, the ~1.2B pricetag was based on the value of the 1998 dollar, do they take into consideration of inflation and the weaker dollar value of 2008? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockheedFix Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Here is a picture from the Air Force Times: It's hard to tell from that angle, but it looks to me like it hit the main parallel taxiway. Looks like pretty much where we had 3 Herks parked all December. Could've been a loss of $2.29B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hd5032 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 (edited) Glad the guys are ok. One thing that strikes me is that fact that this is the first ever crash of a B2. Considering how radically different the aircraft design is from pretty much everything else, I think that's pretty amazing. With the V-22, there's a lot of screaming about the crashes, until people (correctly) point out that crashes are not unusual during the development of new aircraft as the bugs are worked out. That it was accomplished in the B2 with no crashes (and going on 20 years now the thing has been flying), its pretty cool. Any other airframes have similar records? Edited February 24, 2008 by hd5032 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osulax05 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Just curious why this particular accident (the B-2) falls under the "we need new iron" column ? Not saying this particular accident will draw attention to the argument, just that it might take high profile accidents like this one to convince congress. And that is a sad thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afnav Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Hell, the BUFF dropped pieces off of it during and after its development, and still flew. I'm not sure there are any airplanes around that could top that. -------- There are some interesting theories on another site, to include wake turbulence and flight computer failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pogo Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 The SR-71 had an impressive no Class A record for a couple of decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest regularjoe Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Hell, the BUFF dropped pieces off of it during and after its development, and still flew. I'm not sure there are any airplanes around that could top that. -------- There are some interesting theories on another site, to include wake turbulence and flight computer failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest billpritjr Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Not saying this particular accident will draw attention to the argument, just that it might take high profile accidents like this one to convince congress. And that is a sad thought. Ok roger that. Unfortunately, how many Harriers have crashed? Ospreys? Etc? Congress could care less. If they have a factory producing unsafe-airplanes in their district, but the factory employes 20,000 people, thats all they care about. Actually right now the LAST thing they would want to do is anything to stop new orders of airplanes, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hd5032 Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 (edited) OK, maybe the no-tail design on the B-2 is not as revolutionary as I thought. That's badass. Edited February 24, 2008 by hd5032 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas Man Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 The SR-71 had an impressive no Class A record for a couple of decades. http://area51specialprojects.com/crashes.html 11 of 29 built crashed. Pretty impressive safety record.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddller Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I would say the dates listed for the crashes stopped in the early 70's, but how often were they flying the Blackbird after that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelzUp Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Didn't the Habu keep flying until the mid 1990's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest xtndr50boom Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Second to last SR-71 crash was in 1972 @ Kadena. Went off the runway during a landing attempt in a typhoon. Last one was due to dual (all) hydraulic failure in late 1989 near the Phillipines. For an aircraft with that kind of revolutionary performance and the hostile airspace it flew over it's pretty incredible they could go 16-17 years without a crash, but then again it looks like they learned alot of lessons the hard way pre-1972. The AF retired their aircraft a few months after the 89 crash (not related). Congress reactivated two SR-71s for the AF in the mid-90s and they flew for ~ 2 years. NASA flew theirs (3 airframes, but only two flew) from 1990 to the aircraft's last flight in october 1999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarheadBoom Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 E6B - 2/12/08 - http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/02/navy..._crash_080212w/ Correction - That was an EA-6B, not an E-6B. Vastly different aircraft... Weird to think I just saw both of those aircraft shortly before their loss, when I passed through Andersen a couple weeks ago... Good to hear the crew's OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest awalkertx Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 looks like an H model - probably got fixed. "tail" is one of those things that falls under the category of stuff not mentioned in the MEL. makes crosswind landings and spin practice a lot easier though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hd5032 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 looks like an H model - probably got fixed. "tail" is one of those things that falls under the category of stuff not mentioned in the MEL. makes crosswind landings and spin practice a lot easier though! Looks like it was fixed and is still flying out of Barksdale http://www.barksdale.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123024862 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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