Gun Talk

[Smokin]

I have a couple good belts that are almost 1/4" thick, so should be good there. But I am actually looking at an inside the pocket holster like this. That type of holster was virtually invisible when I tried out one at the range with a thin single-stack pistol. I'm currently looking at the Taurus 709, the Kahr CM9, and possibly the Kimber Solo if I can find one for sale. If anyone has any experience with these types of guns, I'd appreciate any advice.

Smokin, I carry a Glock 27 daily in a Cross Breed SuperTuck Deluxe and it works great, I often forget I'm carrying. It's odd looking but very comfortable and does a great job with concealment... No printing with just a tee shirt. To your original question, the Kahr PM9 is a sweet little carry piece, I just don't know why they are so damn expensive. I've also been wanting to shoot the little Taurus myself... That thing would disappear in your pocket just like my buddies Kel Tec here in the photo.

How does your friend like the Kel Tec? I have heard some negative things about the company in general and am hesitant to have my daily carry be from a company that is questionable. Also, Kahr just started making a cheaper version of the PM9. It looks like all of the functionality and reliability is the same, they just didn't make it as nice looking. Personally, the uglier the gun the better.

[M2]

I would not let my life depend on a Kel-Tec!

Anyhow, in better news, guess what arrived today?

And just for shits and giggles, here's a 7.62x39 AK round next to the 8mm Mauser the above M76 uses...

Cheers! M2

[Smokin]

Looks like an AK version of the BAR. I need one.

[HeloDude]

I have to ask M2--how many firearms does this make for you?

I'm getting my new Saiga 12 tomorrow and my S&W 442 later in the week. Love me some guns!

[M2]

I have to ask M2--how many firearms does this make for you?

Sorry dude, that's classified information!

I'm getting my new Saiga 12 tomorrow and my S&W 442 later in the week.

Nice! Is the Saiga stock or has it been converted? Either way, those are getting tough to find, so snagging one is a good score!

Love me some guns!

Yep, it's a great country we live in (well, most of it!).

Cheers! M2

[HeloDude]

Nice! Is the Saiga stock or has it been converted? Either way, those are getting tough to find, so snagging one is a good score!

It's straight out of the Saiga box. I have a feeling that the BATF will eventually ban these straight imports and I want mine while I still can. I found a decent place to buy 2 additional more, so in the end my plan is to have 3 total...1 to modify and shoot, and 2 to put away just in case.

Here are a few questions I have for you M2 (and anyone else who has SA on the subject):

-The Saiga shotguns that are imported can be sold as is, ie 100% Russian and not changed at all once they enter the US. Are the Saiga 7.62x39 'sporting' rifles (AK format) the same way--100% Russian and not changed at all in the US?

-With the Saiga shotguns (and perhaps the Saiga rifles) that come straight from the Russian factory with the 5rd mags...if I slap a 10rd mag on it and take it to the gun range to go plinking--am I breaking the law? I've been reading up on 922r compliance and read something to the effect that anything greater than a 5rd mag on an import 'sporting/hunting' shotgun is illegal because it no longer falls into that category, and thus, to be legal, you have to comply with 922r and change out enough import components to make it legal to shoot--is this correct?

-If the above is in fact true and someone were to slap a 10rd mag on the Saiga 12 and take it to the gun range, do you think that person could (or be likely) to slapped with charges from the BATF?

I'm learning that you have to be careful with even slight modifications to certain firearms and would like to know exactly what I can and can not do.

[M2]

HeloDude

18 USC 922r is a pain in the ass to comprehend, but this guy probably explains it best at a caveman level.

Basically, if you make any modification to the original form of the rifle or shotgun brought into the country, it has to be 922-compliant. Those features added that are generally considered to be changing the weapon are:

- High capacity (greater than 10 round for rifles, 5 rounds for shotgun) magazines

- Pistol grip attachment

- Folding buttstock

- Muzzle device/attachment (to include a threaded barrel capable of receiving a device)

- Bayonet lugs

As stated in that link, if your rifle or shotgun incorporates those features, it no longer is considered "suitable for sporting purposes."

So under the letter of the law, such simple "modifications" as using a 10-shell magazine changes your "sporterized" Saiga shotgun into a nasty "modified" one, and you then have to replace parts until you are assured it has no more than 10 of imported parts on it.

And be careful, because not all aftermarket parts for Saigas are made in the US! To remain in compliance of 922r, the number of foreign parts must be 10 or less!

Now, whether the BATF will arrest you at the range for shooting a 10-shell magazine in your Saiga shotgun is debatable. I honestly can't recall anyone ever being prosecuted for having a non-922r compliant firearm, or the BATF inspecting weapons at a gun range; but there is always the chance and especially so if you later try to sell it.

Best to be safe for the time being and just use the 5-round mag until such a time that you can replace parts to make it 922r compliant! But that's my knowledge of the law, and I am not a lawyer nor do I profess to being one on TV. The bottom line is that it's your call...

Cheers! M2

[HeloDude]

Great info M2--thanks!

It's annoying that a law abiding firearms owner has to jump through all those hoops just to legally put a 10rd magazine in a Saiga 12...but, I guess we're just lucky that we're able to import the Saiga's in their true configuration.

"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

[brickhistory]

Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm

not my photo

I wasn't looking to buy this gun. I'm not really enamored by this gun's looks and wasn't when I purchased it. It's another black, polymer auto in a market flooded with the same by various manufacturers.

...

This M&P is in the same boat. I've read a bit that it is utterly reliable. That it has a good reputation for quality in the manufacturing, yada, yada, yada. Still it did nothing for me. Made in the U.S.A.

...

As I started out by saying, this gun does nothing for me. I like, mostly, the old school stuff - steel, wood, blued, etc, etc. As much as I don't feel much for this pistol, I am gong to replace my heavy steel.45 for CCW when I'm able to carry a larger pistol under a jacket, sweater, etc with this S&W. For summer, it's probably a little big.

As has been noted in previous posts in this thread, those that carry do so not wanting to have to use it, but if required, want something utterly reliable. The downside of that selection is often times it's gonna be a pricey gun. It'd be worth it to be the one still around to explain to the cops what happened, but those same cops are most likely to take your gun with them. It will be a long time before, or if, you see that one again.

For reliability and not shedding a tear if it should ever be taken, God forbid, this is a good one for me. It did, however, probably keep me from getting the Beretta Px4 Storm. I don't think I'll be getting another 9mm auto anytime soon. Something could tempt me, but not just now.

I'd like to amend my remarks, er, report on this S&W M&P 9.

I put my 1,000th round through it this morning. It has yet to not work. I stick by the trigger being a little goofy, but this gun is rock-solid in reliability, in accuracy, in craftsmanship, and in its 17+1 capacity.

I like it a lot now.

[Smokin]

S&W has a military rebate right now, $50 back for that pistol (or any other M&P handgun) and $100 for most M&P rifles.

[Timbonez]

M&P pistols are great. I had a mid-size .45 for a little while and I didn't have any problems with it.

There are better options than buying one of S&W's rifles.

[HeloDude]

So I was looking online at more places that sell Saiga's (I think I'm slightly obsessed), and came across one of these:

I'm sure guys like M2 have seen this, but this is first I've heard of such a 'bump fire' stock--pretty impressive if you ask me.

M2 (and anyone else)--any info on the Slide Fire Solutions Stock? I have a fairly new Rock River AR that I haven't done too much too, but it seems that this SSAR-15 might be better used with a cheaper AR since it might cause damage to the gun if you are always using it for 'rapid fire'.

I also read on a few other forums that they're developing one for the AK...we shall see!

[magnetfreezer]

So I was looking online at more places that sell Saiga's (I think I'm slightly obsessed), and came across one of these:

I'm sure guys like M2 have seen this, but this is first I've heard of such a 'bump fire' stock--pretty impressive if you ask me.

M2 (and anyone else)--any info on the Slide Fire Solutions Stock? I have a fairly new Rock River AR that I haven't done too much too, but it seems that this SSAR-15 might be better used with a cheaper AR since it might cause damage to the gun if you are always using it for 'rapid fire'.

I also read on a few other forums that they're developing one for the AK...we shall see!

Unfortunately any device like this (technically even a rubber band which allows bump firing) may result in an ex post facto letter from the ATF (google Atkins Accelerator)

[HeloDude]

Unfortunately any device like this (technically even a rubber band which allows bump firing) may result in an ex post facto letter from the ATF (google Atkins Accelerator)

I'm one step ahead of you man (or rather the company is).

Here's also the link

I hear you though in reference to the Atkins Accelerator--that's why I'm thinking of getting one of these sooner rather than later after I do more research. Just like my recent interest in Saiga's...I don't trust the BATF anymore than (fill in a cool cliche'), especially given who currently runs the DOJ. So now is maybe the time to get some of these cool toys, while they're still available.

So again...any thoughts/information?

[Timbonez]

So I was looking online at more places that sell Saiga's (I think I'm slightly obsessed), and came across one of these:

VIDEO

I'm sure guys like M2 have seen this, but this is first I've heard of such a 'bump fire' stock--pretty impressive if you ask me.

M2 (and anyone else)--any info on the Slide Fire Solutions Stock? I have a fairly new Rock River AR that I haven't done too much too, but it seems that this SSAR-15 might be better used with a cheaper AR since it might cause damage to the gun if you are always using it for 'rapid fire'.

I also read on a few other forums that they're developing one for the AK...we shall see!

You won't damage a quality made firearm by bump firing. What it will do is waste your money on ammo for no good reason, and more importantly, it will wear your barrel out faster. Your money will be better spent buying ammo and training with your AR than putting it to waste on useless shit like that. Investing in a training course would also be a good idea.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Timbonez

[Smokin]

It will also get you booted from most ranges.

[HeloDude]

You won't damage a quality made firearm by bump firing. What it will do is waste your money on ammo for no good reason, and more importantly, it will wear your barrel out faster. Your money will be better spent buying ammo and training with your AR than putting it to waste on useless shit like that. Investing in a training course would also be a good idea.

I'm not disagreeing that shooting in a 'full auto fashion' will waste ammo and wear through your barrel much more quickly....but sometimes, you just want to do something different to have a little fun, and this new stock allows that to happen. There's also something 'boyhood cool' about getting to shoot an AR like a full auto, especially since it's super expensive to get my hands on a full auto...not to mention the legal hoops you have to jump through. I agree that spending time/money on training is quite important, and I do that most of the time (drawing my CCW, moving and shooting, etc)...but like I said, sometimes it's just fun to go shooting and tear shit up!

It will also get you booted from most ranges.

Fortunately the private range I belong to allows full auto.

So again, anyone else have any info/thoughts on the new stock and/or want one?

[Timbonez]

It sounds like you're seeking validation before buying an overpriced piece of shit. It's a waste and you can accomplish the same effect with a rubber band or your thumb through a belt loop on your pants. If you really only do care about that "boyhood cool," wouldn't that be enough? Are you really willing to pay almost $400 (in addition to the cost of the ammo) for something totally useless. Do you not find improving your skills at shooting fun?

[HeloDude]

It sounds like you're seeking validation before buying an overpriced piece of shit.

Not looking for validation, just looking for useful opinions/experience (positive and negative) before I buy something. I research all the firearms/accessories before I make a purchase.

It's a waste and you can accomplish the same effect with a rubber band or your thumb through a belt loop on your pants. If you really only do care about that "boyhood cool," wouldn't that be enough?

Fair enough man, your opinion, and I appreciate it. I would argue that this accessory is not the same as bump-firing using a rubber band or your belt loop. The effect isn't even really the same as a full auto is not commonly shot from one's belt loop--using this is as close to the real thing as you can get unless someone knows of another produce worth researching.

Are you really willing to pay almost $400 (in addition to the cost of the ammo) for something totally useless.

Dude, I'm a single Captain, so $350 to me is a drop in the bucket for something I'd like to have--it won't hamper me in buying any other type of firearm or accessory. This isn't something I would use often, but would be enjoyable from time to time, especially when taking good friends/family out to the range and letting them try something new, so it's not like I'd be going through thousands of .223 ammo every week.

Do you not find improving your skills at shooting fun?

Of course I do, hence why I do it--CCW course, shooting competitions, practicing at the range fairly often, etc. But if you can afford it, why not add something else to your collection that could also be considered fun? Got it, you think it's useless, I disagree, no worries.

Again--appreciate the opinions!

[M2]

I've seen them at shows, and to be honest I wouldn't waste my money. Either save up and buy a real Class III weapon, or live in the land of semi-auto like the rest of us.

I can easily replicate what this stock does with a rubber band, and it doesn't require firing from the hip (that's a different method of bump-firing); but honestly even at ranges where full-auto is allowed I don't want to risk drawing that much attention to myself.

Plus, there are other aspects of that stock I wouldn't be thrilled about.

But that's just my opinion, much like Pager Pals I am sure there are some folks out there who will rave about this contraption. Me, I've got better things to spend my money on!

Cheers! M2

[Timbonez]

Not looking for validation, just looking for useful opinions/experience (positive and negative) before I buy something. I research all the firearms/accessories before I make a purchase.

Fair enough man, your opinion, and I appreciate it. I would argue that this accessory is not the same as bump-firing using a rubber band or your belt loop. The effect isn't even really the same as a full auto is not commonly shot from one's belt loop--using this is as close to the real thing as you can get unless someone knows of another produce worth researching.

Dude, I'm a single Captain, so $350 to me is a drop in the bucket for something I'd like to have--it won't hamper me in buying any other type of firearm or accessory. This isn't something I would use often, but would be enjoyable from time to time, especially when taking good friends/family out to the range and letting them try something new, so it's not like I'd be going through thousands of .223 ammo every week.

Of course I do, hence why I do it--CCW course, shooting competitions, practicing at the range fairly often, etc. But if you can afford it, why not add something else to your collection that could also be considered fun? Got it, you think it's useless, I disagree, no worries.

Again--appreciate the opinions!

Fair enough.

[HeloDude]

Picked up this little one (SA85M, post ban) today!

Edited June 4, 2011 by HeloDude

[StoleIt]

Anyone here do any painting (duracoat, cerakote, etc?)

I am thinking about picking up a compressor and paint gun to get my upper and lowers FDE to match all the furniture on it. I am NOT a fan of the spray paint option since it doesn't generally match the same shade of FDE that Magpul uses.

If anyone interested in here is the formula to get a damn near PERFECT match for FDE:

1 tablespoon Duracoat Leupold DE

1 teaspoon Duracoat Leupold DE

1 teaspoon Duracoat DM Lizard

1 teaspoon CAV ARMS Coyote Brown

1/2 teaspoon Hardener

3 ML flatterer

Stolen from AR15.com. Note how close it is to the stock, pistol grip, and hand grip.

Another rifle here using same technique:

[Timbonez]

Stoleit, any words on your AR-15 paint job?

[StoleIt]

Stoleit, any words on your AR-15 paint job?

Sadly none.

I went out and bought a new car so no spending money til I sell the old one.

So project Mk12Mod0 (clone) paint job is on hold.