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If you got a short tour under the 181+ before it was rescinded will it still count or will they go back retroactively? Trying to determine my need to start hunting up a 365 before it hunts me.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123252966 Looks like you'll need 300 days in an 18 mo period or 548 in 3 years. Lots of folks will already hit those numbers. Others, not so much.

From what I saw today, but is not "official" yet: Normal short tours (i.e. Korea, unaccompanied Turkey, ITDYs, etc) still get credit for a short tour (see 36-2110, Table 3.3). Also, if you are already boots on the ground as of the new policy hitting the streets, you can still get short tour credit if you hit 181+. This of course is still word of mouth until the PSDM gets released and it could get changed before being sent out. If anyone gets their hands on the actual implementation message, which I am told is soon to follow, post it here.

It's now policy (attached). The 180 day exception has been rescinded, which (I believe) returns it to the AFI 36-2110, Table 3.4. excerpt Champ Kind mentioned previously: TDY 300 days or more in a consecutive 18 month period OR TDY 548 days in a consecutive 3 year period = Short Tour Credit. CSAF short tour letter.pdf

There are 3 big dates that big blue tracks: your time TDY overseas, your last short tour, your last long tour. Any time you get a short tour, it resets both your TDY time overseas and last short tour to the day you got back. If you don't do a short tour, you get credit for your TDY time (like ALL the B-52 guys going to Guam). If you do a long tour, all 3 reset to the day you got back. The reason you don't just add together days is that the more senior you get, the FAR more likely you are to deploy for ANY time home. Imagine a guy who crosses over to the LRO side of the house and only has a single tour under his belt. He could easily be eligible for back-to-back-to-back-to-back tours in his field just because LROs have deployed more and it's "his turn". The problems in the LRO career field are similar to the CE field: Helping the Army out because they don't have the personnel because they didn't plan for the long term. Many of our folks in the support fields are tired of being a crutch because the Army can't get its act together.

I thought you short tour return date moved to the right based on the # of days TDY... So the guy that did the 365 would still be better off than the guy that did 185.

I recall being told at one time it all had to do with your short tour return date. So the guy who has 364 days over seas and the guy who has 185 days are equal in the eyes of big blue if they returned on the same date. The only time actual deployment days count is when you don't have a short tour. Your days overseas are tacked onto your EAD date if you never have had a short tour or are tacked onto your previous short tour return date.

The point many are missing, and it has been said, is that this is AFSC specific. 181 for a short tour is actually a current exception to policy that dates back to 2002/2003, IIRC. But, I can tell you there are many people that are doing 179's that are being kept here by CC's for the magic two weeks. A stroke of a pen and you can be held for 2 weeks, no big deal. Do away with the ETP and that 179 becomes 194 w/o any consideration for what they have just done. I know a location where the boss is getting considerable pressure to end the tactic because he is pushing everyone to/ over 181. There is benefit to having a system that identifies where it is broken and tries to fix itself. W/o that ETP, no one would give two cents what this guy is doing or why he is doing it. Seriously, if you don't want a 365, volunteer for one of the good deal 179's /possible short tours.

Perhaps they should get away from scheduling people right up to 179 days (there is a reason they want 179. Make it 150 and be done with it! Perhaps leadership should have thought of that BEFORE going to 6 month rotations. The problem lies with leadership wanting to push the envelope and planning poorly. The guy who does a 365 gets short tour credit, but so does the guy who does 182 days. It doesn't matter in between. I have a word for you: jealousy. These folks ARE doing a short tour, as defined by the regulations. It doesn't screw ANYONE else at all. As for the ULN switcheroo to invalidate your short tour, BS! It has nothing to do with what ULN you are assigned to. It has everything to do with "consecutive days deployed". You should be gold for getting short tour credit.

Can someone please explain the whole "short tour" vs. 365 concept? What I'm reading into it is that during a career, you're prime to accomplish one or the other. If you haven't done one, and you're "high time" you're prime to be non-vol'd. When can one "expect" to be non-vol'd?

Yea, seen that before but the way our unit deploys it would be very difficult to get that. We fall just short, and therefore will be prime targets for a short tour after doing 2 on, 3 off for 6-9 years in a row. We're gonna have dudes gone an average of 220 in 18 months but you'd pretty much have to extend twice in order to get to 300, so from our perspective the rules are BS. It works out to being gone 40% of the time, year after year. You have to be gone either 54% of the time in an 18 month period or 49% of the time over a 36 month period to get a non-consecutive short tour; we'd all agree that's a pretty stout amount of time away from the fam. Whereas the dude who does 1 consecutive short tour in, say a 5 year period, is gone 10% of the time but is sitting pretty in the eyes of big blue. YMMV depending on how you go TDY/deploy. I'm sure for that dude that does one 185 day tour in 10 years, or even every 5 years, the rules are great. IMHO, when the short tour list come up and there's a bill to pay, it should be total days deployed instead of all these ridiculous rules.

True. See AFI 36-2110, Table 3.4. Excerpt: TDY 300 days or more in a consecutive 18 month period OR TDY 548 days in a consecutive 3 year period = Short Tour Credit

Why is the short tour discriminator out there? Now with them changing the rules of what a short tour is will previous short tours still count? How about we just use days deployed / contingency as a discriminator until these wars are behind us for 10+ years. This way the d bag who has been deployed for precisely 185 days in his 15-17 years of service gets tagged for the 365 instead of the crew dog who has in excess of 4 years deployed for the same amount of time in service just doesn't have the short tour.

Word on the street is that AFPC is raising the short tour requirement just for situations like that. I keep hearing different numbers (215 days, 250 days, etc.) but with the standard AF deployment finally being raised to 179 days, AFPC is tired of people staying a few extra days to get short tour credit. If you're in an AF billet they usually kicked you out prior to 180 days but the other services (and especially NATO) couldn't care less about AF policies so they're usually OK with people staying a few days later to get credit. A couple of my friends have done this and while I'm happy for them, I'm pissed that the system can be gamed like that. Short tours are huge in the LRO world with the expectation that we'll do approx 6 in our careers (including 365s). To hear that people are getting short tour credit despite not doing anything close to a short tour is annoying because it just screws everyone else over. Glad to see that AFPC will be fixing this in the near future...

If you're serving a 200 day TDY in the AOR, can your commander eliminate the short tour credit by sending you TDY outside of the AOR for a week? This would make the 181+ days non-consecutive. Notes I see are this: "2. AIRMEN REQUIRED TO DEPART THE TDY LOCATION FOR SHORT PERIODS DUE TO MISSION REQUIREMENTS SUCH AS AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE, WILL CONTINUE TO ACCUMULATE TDY CREDIT TOWARD THE 181 CONSECUTIVE DAY MINIMUM. HOWEVER, PERIODS SERVED OUT OF THE DESIGNATED LOCATION WILL NOT COUNT TOWARD THE 181 DAY REQUIREMENT. THE ACCUMULATION WILL RESUME UPON THE MEMBERS RETURN TO THE TDY LOCATION." - From AWARD OF PCS SHORT TOUR CREDIT FOR TDY (SUPERSEDES AL 8106 171955Z JUN 03 MESSAGE) How do you know if MPF will consider said TDY a "Mission requirement"?

Did a search and all that came up was MC-12 info. I'm looking for current and specific info on C-12's. The following are my questions: 1) What's the ops tempo like? 2) Are they all short tours? 3) Where are they located and where do I find current locations that are open? 4) What are the pros and cons with this gig? 5) Does this assignment make you eligible for a non-vol MC-12 tour? Mobility dude here looking for some "change". Considering C-12 as an option for next assignment or short tour. Thanks!

My two cents... I did a 179er to Iraq and made sure to stay in theater a few extra days to get my Short Tour credit (185). It worked, I just brought my paid travel voucher to my MPF office and bam. I didn't say crap about it to my leadership and it is on my vMPF page with 7 months served in Iraq. The ribbon updated instantly (not that I care but I was amazed at how easy the process was). Also, I didn't have any issues with staying in theater longer, I worked for the Navy so what we call a Short Tour they call that just part of the job. The comment above about dudes volunteering for the 'Deid to avoid the actual AOR is shameful, we have too many "toy soldiers" as is...what a joke!

Short tour stuff, especially trying to learn from the AFIs, can get confusing quickly. Read relevant posts here and look around on the AFPC website. Assignments to Korea are pretty much all remote short tours. But if you get assigned to Osan, you could get command sponsorship for your spouse (permission to bring your family over). The 'standard' remote tour is one year but you can extend in six month or one year increments. However, if you extend all the way to three years, you will not get credit for a short tour. Depending on your airframe or job, you will probably have a short tour at some point in your career, so many volunteer in order to choose when/where they go. However, realize that if you volunteer straight out of training (can be a good idea), you may get voluntold for a second tour down the road. The number of volunteers you will find at a given short tour will depend greatly on how good or bad of a deal it is. Flying assignment in Korea - probably 100% volunteers. Coffee bitch at the Died - probably not.

I'm trying to get some info/differentiate between overseas short tours, long tours, remotes, and deployments such as CAOC tours. What are the differences between them? I'm browsing the AFI nunya posted and am under the impression that a short tour is one that is generally unaccompanied and less than 365 but can also be 18 months. And a long tour is any location accompanied or unaccompanied for 365+? These can either be flying and non flying right? What generally drives the requirement to do a short or long tour? Are they mostly volunteer, or are people voluntold? What about the CAOC? Is that one of those mandatory check boxes in order to stay in? Also, does an overseas assignment to somewhere like Kadena count the same as any other long overseas or remote tour? Are all of these "highly recommended" at some point in the aviation career, meaning if you don't volunteer for them at least once in your career you can count on getting stuck with one later on? Any info you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Who? answered that pretty thoroughly (much more details than I knew) and I have nothing to add to that part. However, keep in mind the flip side to the coin--the AF's side of the bargain, if you will. Once you're identified as possessing the specific skill level in a specific language, you're on the hook for any must-fill billets (long or short tour, accompanied or unaccompanied, TDY/deployment, or otherwise) that require those skills. Are there any places in the world, where Spanish is the predominant language and where we have a military presence (even a single LNO), to where you DON'T want to be tagged to go (potentially--even likely--on little or no-notice)...? How do you feel about leaving your current airframe/job/community? I've seen it happen. Your current AFSC/functional/commander/career path/personal desires/TOS/anything else won't mean a damn thing if you get tagged. I know several folks with native-speaker levels of fluency in some high-demand languages (including Arabic) who do not test for that exact reason--the risk (likelihood) of being summarily grabbed and sent to a shithole location, all other considerations be damned, is just too great. Be sure the risk is worth it to you for whatever pay amount you can potentially get....

Worked just fine for me last year in OEF; as a single billet there wasn't any oversight. No issues when I took my paid travel voucher to MPF and short tour was awarded on the spot.

I find this extremely suspect. PERSCO has somewhere between zero and nothing to do with awarding short tour credit. The only way I can see this even remotely possible is if for Big Blue's accounting purposes they view it on their books as separate deployments, neither of which add up to a short tour. Even if that's the case, there is nothing on your paid travel voucher that shows MPF what ULN you are filling. Hell, you can even come back CONUS (emergency leave, TDYs, etc) then go back to the AOR and resume your countdown and still get the credit. I used to hear the rumors that the USAF tracks this closely and will shepherd you on a plane to make sure you're gone at 179. Maybe for some units as a whole, but for an individual billet, it's total utter fiction.

Yep found the same source data. Persco is saying that because it was originally a 120, and the ULN changes at the 120 day mark (when my replacement should arrive), then they are treated as separate TDYS. Since the ULN changes overnight, the clock restarts at zero days. Their call to AFPC confirmed this. At least I found our before I extended, but this is something that should be addressed. I go to sleep and wake up in the same deployed place but the counter for a short tour resets because I "volunteered" to stay for consecutive 120s with different ULNs. At least I found our before I extended, but this is something that should be addressed. The man is always looking for a way to keep you down...

In the table referenced by nunya, Row 16 says: (If) Deployed to a hostile fire/imminent danger pay zone any time after 11 Sep 2001 until present... (For) 181 consecutive days or more... (Then) Give Airman credit for a completed short tour and award new ODSD and STRD to equal date of return from TDY. And note 5 from the table says: 5. The only source document to be used to validate OS TDY is a copy of the paid travel voucher for each TDY claimed.

The same WOM was floating around when I did my last deployment in 2008. It was scheduled for 179, but I knew guys getting tagged again inside of 12 months. My replacement was delayed and I was in theater for 200 days. Everything I have ever seen still indicates 181+ is a short tour and will reset your return from overseas date. It worked in my case. Edit: the one trick is to take your paid travel voucher over to MPF to get your overseas return date reset. It doesn't happen automatically.