theoriginalturk

https://warontherocks.com/2018/04/trust-troops-and-reapers-getting-drone-research-right/

Speaking of killing flight training, RPA operators will no longer be going to IFT. So no stick and rudder time, and no background in aviation for robot operators in your stacks. May the odds be in your favor

Just wanted to give future RPA prospects an update. Expect to no longer go to IFT. Thats right! you'll be delivering world class air power; ISR, air interdiction, close air support, as well as strike coordination and reconnaissance, dynamic targeting, and combat search and rescue while never logging a single hour of real flight time. Be a pylot without ever having touched an aircraft. Fly. Fight. Win.

Just from sheer statistic on how many RPA guys there are and the availability of contract jobs that pay at least as much as active duty O pay; they are pretty saturated. You have an edge coming from UPT you can apply for CONUS contractor positions, because you have a CPL. A lot of RPA guys think that they can apply for those positions when in reality they can only apply for the OCONOS positions, unless they shell out the money and get their CPL. On pay; depending on what position you get it can be between 200-300K I would recon that specifically RPA contractor jobs don't have a great future outlook. AF just cut 10 CAPs of Contractor lines this year. Marines are operating their own MQ-9 lines and will probably look to less to contractors. The Army has their own stuff as well etc. If it dosent contribute to the future fight I would expect less of it.

Its been cancelled without a re-slot. Got a re-slot for RIQ though. Heard from my afsoc brethren its the same over there. Some people are getting re-slots and some arnt. Not alot of standardization, apparently our "training" wasnt really that important, I guess I can see where the FAA was coming from.

Yes. As you guessed manned aviators are more important. If you needed IFT and you're an RPA or CSO you're SOL. All the guys who got to IFT before are gone and they're continuing their respective pipelines (at least as well as they can). There has been chatter they may just axe IFT in general for RPAs, but its 100% rumor. At least the thunder birds flew over my house for 10 seconds yesterday. Edit: additionally the number of RPA students being affected is almost in the triple digits, and there are rumors that someone higher up may waive a magic wand and waive IFT away. I can only imagine that this would further reinforce the stigma of being an RPA "aviator" and our lack aviation credibility for our community. The only time we get to be in a command of a "real" airplane, and poof* there it goes.

I believe this analysis of the opening of the article is gratuitous and misrepresents the spirit of the article. In regards to RPAs from the author, "The Air Force seems intent to simply refuse to purchase or integrate commercially available modifications that would answer each of the concerns, then claim the aircraft are not viable. " which is a sentiment that is widespread here and on other aviation forums. The Col. in the story seemed to try and get the General to think along the lines of, "perhaps given the disparity in production, perhaps more missions and/or opportunities could be given to the RPA community given our cost and retention advantages". Either missions in the form of more capable RPAs or opportunities to alleviate manning issues in our sister 11x community. The generals immediate refusal to even consider such an idea is partially what the whole article is about. The sentiment of being emasculated and being second rate is so widespread in this community that the best way to cope is to just joke about it. Its not perceived emasculation, it is woven into the very fabric of URT. There was a thread a few weeks ago about an RPA guy who was feeling pretty down. Best piece of advice on that thread was for the Lt. to buy his own plane and pursue his aviation development on his own dime and time. No one purposed any type of solution coming from big blue to alleviate these sentiments. Are RPA "pilots" actually pilots? Seems like we still haven't even answered that basic question.

Review the IFT welcome guide here https://www2.l3t.com/doss/pdf/arrival_guide.pdf Memorize the boldface for emergency procedures verbatim, as well as the operational limits that are bold. Pages 10-11 Visit https://www2.l3t.com/doss/incoming_students/index.htm If you have your RIP and 2992 send em to the HARM for the unit you'll be in processing with. Five days from zero day, they can put you on AOs and send a CMS to finance for flight pay.

Is that you John Wayne? Is this me? I cant help but feel a cruel aura of irony hanging over this thread even if the sympathy displayed here is genuine. Sure things are getting better compared to what they were, but the way the Air Force treated the RPA community in the past makes for great reading and gives good insight on the attitudes held by that aviation community regarding "drone" "pilots" that are alive and well to this day (especially if you happen to find yourself in this community). However the Air Force is still way behind the curve in the RPA enterprise, especially in comparison to where we could be if resources were considered as seriously as they are for the B21 or the F35 or the KC46. Creating the 18x career field and placing it under the 11xers will forever stain us. AF doctrine is all about effects over platforms up until you bring up being physically in a a cockpit or not.

Thanks man! Been a long time lurker, but as that old SOB Gandhi said “If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. ... We need not wait to see what others do.” So I've decided to dip my toes in this community, and as far as I can tell there are almost no 18Xs that are active in this on this forum, only 11Us. Hopefully through dialogue I'll continue to gain insights that may prove useful at some point in the future. Such as, was I aware that URT dudes get limited time on "real" reapers, and I've heard that the data link is indeed expensive. I'll add your anecdote to my collection, and validate it whenever I can. If they are indeed as expensive and numerous as you say it would be an interesting point that could be leveraged one day. Is there a big difference between "real" and "Simulated" RPA hours? Absolutely not. Its borderline hilarious that they would spend 250K training 18Xs without them even hitting the requirements for a PPL during training.

I was just making a point. I'm willing to bet that the total cost is absolutely less the 100K. I got my numbers from the GAO "The Air Force spends considerably less to train RPA pilots than it does to train manned-aircraft pilots. Specifically, Air Education and Training Command officials estimate that the Air Force spends about $65,000 to train each RPA pilot to complete Undergraduate RPA Training. Conversely, these officials estimate that the Air Force spends an average of $557,00" Which seems reasonable compared to the estimates given above. Its also safe to assume that they receive less training after URT as well, as AETC's page states "Unlike traditional pilots who would expect to be wingmen or co-pilots in initial combat mission ready status, the RPA pilots are immediately solo and in charge of their mission upon reaching mission ready status." Which I would assume would happen shortly after URT. Also according to the CC of the 432d Wing "Today, the “vast majority” of upgrade training for RPA crews happens on “combat lines,” Cheater said". I'm just saying they seem to do a lot with less. https://www.gao.gov/assets/670/662467.pdf https://www.aetc.af.mil/Flying-Training/ http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2019/March 2019/For-MQ-9-Crews-2019-is-Time-to-Reap-Just-Rewards.aspx

Thought it would be fun to add the 18X URT cost just as a comparison. Kinda shows where the RPA guys stand in the food chain.