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Army to AF Transfer (Green to Blue)

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I recently saw a picture of an Army pilot went green to blue.  His name patch on his pickle suit had Army and Air Force Wings on it.  Do they still allow this?

Edited by JustHangingOut

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1 hour ago, JustHangingOut said:

I recently saw a picture of an Army pilot went green to blue.  His name patch on his pickle suit had Army and Air Force Wings on it.  Do they still allow this?

Yeah, dude, they totally do. The ALO that was assigned to my BDE in the Army was an A10 guy who flew helos in the Army as a warrant. He wore both his Army and Air Force wings on his uniform. The Air Force wings were obviously on top, but he wore both of them. 

Also, my buddy is close to finishing UPT now, and he’s an Army guy with Army wings on his flight suit, until he gets his Air Force wings, and then he’ll wear both. It’s like wearing Airborne wings underneath your pilot wings.

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9 minutes ago, ackc said:

Yeah, dude, they totally do. The ALO that was assigned to my BDE in the Army was an A10 guy who flew helos in the Army as a warrant. He wore both his Army and Air Force wings on his uniform. The Air Force wings were obviously on top, but he wore both of them. 

Also, my buddy is close to finishing UPT now, and he’s an Army guy with Army wings on his flight suit, until he gets his Air Force wings, and then he’ll wear both. It’s like wearing Airborne wings underneath your pilot wings.

That's awesome.

I look forward to sporting both wings once I get picked up by a unit.

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11 hours ago, Termy said:

Can I wear both my air assault and airborne wings with my pilot wings? Thanks for researching!

No problem! I did the research because I don’t want to look like a jackass switching uniforms since the Army and Air Force have different regulations, so I’ve looked at them pretty closely. 

You can definitely wear all three on your ABUs, the reg just states that you can only wear two badges above your usaf tape, and the third would be worn centered on the pocket below the usaf tape. If you had a fourth, you could wear that above your nametape, but I don’t think I’ve seen anyone but pararescue guys have more than 3 badges. 

As far as the nametag on the flight suit is concerned, the regulation just says you have to wear your aeronautical rating badge at a minimum. It doesn’t put a limit on how many badges you can wear on it. I suppose you could wear all three, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen that with pilot wings. I DID see a picture of a guy at UPT in a flight suit with HALO, Airborne, and Scuba all on his nametag, so I guess it’s possible, just probably not commonly done.

 I was confused about that very thing myself, because the Army issues badges like it’s cool, so I already have 3 coming from the Army, and that doesn’t include the Ranger tab, so I’m not sure if I’m allowed to wear them, even looking at the regulation.

I guess to be safe, you could just stick with no more than 2 badges like the ABU mandates, but I don’t know. You could definitely give it a shot!

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I think you'll find that most people in AF flying squadrons won't care about wearing badges/tabs either way unless you come across as a tool about it.

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8 hours ago, Champ Kind said:

I think you'll find that most people in AF flying squadrons won't care about wearing badges/tabs either way unless you come across as a tool about it.

Thanks! I appreciate the advice. I always try and fall back on, “be a good dude,” whenever I’m in doubt about something in most walks of life. 

I reckon flying well and being a good wingman is more important than whatever badges or stuff one would be wearing anyway. 

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On 10/18/2017 at 8:50 AM, JustHangingOut said:

I recently saw a picture of an Army pilot went green to blue.  His name patch on his pickle suit had Army and Air Force Wings on it.  Do they still allow this?

In short it's all perfectly legal, but here's my advice:

I've seen some prior Navy and non-rated crewmember guys wearing both and it kinda looks dumb, the AF guys call any double wing wearer a "Dragonfly". I've seen some prior Navy and Marine guys wear AF wings mon-thurs and then their Navy wings with their callsign patch on Friday, which I think is a much more tactful way of doing things. I spoke to a pretty chill wing commander fighter type at my B-Course and he basically recommended waiting until I was officially named and then get Army wings on my callsign name tape if I want like the Navy guys do.

In UPT I started with nothing and then wore my Army wings on my student name-tape after my flight commander said that I should. I then wore my AF wings once they were earned with no other wings (the couple other Army guys I knew there did the same). I originally had my AF wings with my CAB but it looks kinda funky and no one has any idea what a CAB is. I wore Army wings on my blues and dress mess along with my CAB before I graduated, and then at graduation I had my mom take my Army ones off and my wife put my Air Force ones on. I think the dragonfly thing looks kinda dumb.

You can wear airborne if you want but people are gonna assume that your just an Academy guy who's proud of his 5 jumps from a Cessna. My advice would be to play the humble card on that and just wear it on your blues, and then when they say you never told them that you were a zoomy you can explain the Army Airborne school process.

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I lurk on this thread occasionally and was wondering about this AF pilot shortage I have read about. I am a 32 year old Center Controller with the FAA and was/am a commissioned Black Hawk driver with 900 hours. Now in the IRR. Anyone with knowledge know if units are accepting age waivers?

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1 hour ago, omar2006 said:

I lurk on this thread occasionally and was wondering about this AF pilot shortage I have read about. I am a 32 year old Center Controller with the FAA and was/am a commissioned Black Hawk driver with 900 hours. Now in the IRR. Anyone with knowledge know if units are accepting age waivers?

A lot of Guard tanker units are working with situations like that right now. That's probably your best bet.

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2 hours ago, omar2006 said:

I lurk on this thread occasionally and was wondering about this AF pilot shortage I have read about. I am a 32 year old Center Controller with the FAA and was/am a commissioned Black Hawk driver with 900 hours. Now in the IRR. Anyone with knowledge know if units are accepting age waivers?

Don’t yall make big $$$ as controllers? I’d stay doing that and retire at 55

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I have a few Navy friends and they don't seem to be having a pilot shortage, despite being even more jaded and what sounds like even lower promotion rates for fliers. So why isn't A1 looking at Blue to different Blue?

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I am so glad I found this thread. I am currently serving as an Infantry officer at Ft. Riley. I have always been interested in flying so I decided to get my private pilots license and completed my training last summer. During my flight training, I realized how much I love flying and decided that I want to have a career flying planes whether that is in the military or civilian sector. However, I want to serve a career in the military so I have been looking into switching to the Air Force, or the AF reserves, to try and get a pilots slot. However, it's not possible to do a service Transfer mid contract (that I know of), so I plan on finishing my contract to the Army and then try and switch once I get out. The problem is I will be 29 and 5 months at the earliest I could get out which would put me at a critical age or disqualify me completely if there is no possibility of getting an age waiver. I want to know if what I want to do is possible? If it is, what could I be doing now to strengthen my chances of accomplishing this. I can't get out till May of 2021, so I have time to get an instrument rating or a masters. Is what I want to do only possible through the reserves? I would be happy doing anything as long as I have the chance to fly. I know some people want to fly fighters and that's it, but I would love the opportunity to fly bombers, cargo, or fuelers. Anything that would let me fly a plane. Let me know what y'all think. 

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On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:44 AM, Blue1316 said:

I am so glad I found this thread. I am currently serving as an Infantry officer at Ft. Riley. I have always been interested in flying so I decided to get my private pilots license and completed my training last summer. During my flight training, I realized how much I love flying and decided that I want to have a career flying planes whether that is in the military or civilian sector. However, I want to serve a career in the military so I have been looking into switching to the Air Force, or the AF reserves, to try and get a pilots slot. However, it's not possible to do a service Transfer mid contract (that I know of), so I plan on finishing my contract to the Army and then try and switch once I get out. The problem is I will be 29 and 5 months at the earliest I could get out which would put me at a critical age or disqualify me completely if there is no possibility of getting an age waiver. I want to know if what I want to do is possible? If it is, what could I be doing now to strengthen my chances of accomplishing this. I can't get out till May of 2021, so I have time to get an instrument rating or a masters. Is what I want to do only possible through the reserves? I would be happy doing anything as long as I have the chance to fly. I know some people want to fly fighters and that's it, but I would love the opportunity to fly bombers, cargo, or fuelers. Anything that would let me fly a plane. Let me know what y'all think. 

Refer to DoD Instruction 1205.05, 1300.04, and 1304.25 for references on transferring within your commitment.

It is possible if they are willing to release you.

And yes, it is possible to get an age waiver.  I am working through one right now for the unit that selected me.  I am not AD however, I am going from Army Guard to Air Guard.  Certain squadrons are more willing to take applicants with age waivers, others wont even consider it.  In short, make them tell you "no" and if they do, there are others out there.

Have you taken the AFOQT and TBAS yet?  If not, get on that immediately.  I would also go ahead and see if you could get an AF flight physical if you can.

Hope this helps!

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thank you for the post. I looked into those directives. I went to a service academy so I don't think they will release me mid commitment. The only thing I feel like I would have going for me is the fact that the AF needs pilots, and the Army is not hurting for infantrymen from what I saw most recently. I haven't taken the AFOQT or the TBAS yet. I am gonna study for that and schedule an exam. That way I can see if I would even qualify. however, since it doesn't seem likely that I would be able to switch mid contract, I don't know if I would be able to get a pilot slot because of my age when I get out. 

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So you're only about 27 now? How far into your ADSO from West Point are you, 3 years? It looks like if you were to start talking to guard and reserve units about one year out from your release, then you should be fine to get out and report to UPT ASAP before you turn 30 (I reported 4 days before my 30th birthday!) It's a long shot but as you get closer and you find out you need to get out a bit early, a short polite email to the J-1's office (currently Brig Gen Margret Burcham http://www.jcs.mil/Directorates/J1|ManpowerandPersonnel.aspx) regarding your situation may be warranted, simply mentioning that the AF is short pilots and you would like to transfer ASAP, that could maybe trigger the office to talk to the Army's manpower and reserve affairs office to let you get out early. That's how I managed to get out in time to start flight school without a waiver but it was already after I was told I was accepted by a guard unit so I had a statement from them that I sent up along with my request, and that probably helped build my case. Doing anything like that now would probably be putting the cart before the horse. I managed to get 2 years off of my Army flight school ADSO, and I know another guy who got 1 year off of his but man that's rare, and I think the J-1 email and the fact that a unit was already willing to hire me made the case. I was also going to be 31 if I had to wait for my ADSO to end, and you'll only be 29.5 and won't even have to go to OTS first so they might not care and tell you to just wait and let the AF figure out how to get you into UPT in time.

Definitely take those tests sooner than later. I'm not 100% sure what the differences might be for someone who is already commissioned, but as as Warrant I had to take both of those tests in order to go to OTS. Not sure if you don't have to if you're already commissioned but they get pilot aptitude scores from both of them so I'd imagine you would still need to take them, if for no other reason than to show a guard or reserve unit's hiring board. They're not too bad but you should definitely get the study guides and take all the practice tests you can and time it. 

I'd say your time is something like:

Take the test and get as high a score as possible, I think they're good for 3 years so be sure to take them at an appropriate time.

Continue to build hours, preferably instrument time.

Volunteer for a full SERE-C course (you're going to hate me for recommending that but it'll help you get hired and get it out of the way nice and early while you're young). It's something you'll have to do anyway if you want to be an AF pilot and it's quality training. I think it has a year ADSO so the sooner the better.

Start talking to guard and reserve units (1-2 years from the end of your ADSO) about your situation and timeline and how they should be able to get you into UPT before you turn 30 if things are set up in advance but you'll probably need a commissioned service waiver (if over 5 years as a commissioned officer at the time of release) but those are easy to get, especially for heavy units.

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So you're only about 27 now? How far into your ADSO from West Point are you, 3 years? It looks like if you were to start talking to guard and reserve units about one year out from your release, then you should be fine to get out and report to UPT ASAP before you turn 30 (I reported 4 days before my 30th birthday!) It's a long shot but as you get closer and you find out you need to get out a bit early, a short polite email to the J-1's office (currently Brig Gen Margret Burcham http://www.jcs.mil/Directorates/J1|ManpowerandPersonnel.aspx) regarding your situation may be warranted, simply mentioning that the AF is short pilots and you would like to transfer ASAP, that could maybe trigger the office to talk to the Army's manpower and reserve affairs office to let you get out early. That's how I managed to get out in time to start flight school without a waiver but it was already after I was told I was accepted by a guard unit so I had a statement from them that I sent up along with my request, and that probably helped build my case. Doing anything like that now would probably be putting the cart before the horse. I managed to get 2 years off of my Army flight school ADSO, and I know another guy who got 1 year off of his but man that's rare, and I think the J-1 email and the fact that a unit was already willing to hire me made the case. I was also going to be 31 if I had to wait for my ADSO to end, and you'll only be 29.5 and won't even have to go to OTS first so they might not care and tell you to just wait and let the AF figure out how to get you into UPT in time.
Definitely take those tests sooner than later. I'm not 100% sure what the differences might be for someone who is already commissioned, but as as Warrant I had to take both of those tests in order to go to OTS. Not sure if you don't have to if you're already commissioned but they get pilot aptitude scores from both of them so I'd imagine you would still need to take them, if for no other reason than to show a guard or reserve unit's hiring board. They're not too bad but you should definitely get the study guides and take all the practice tests you can and time it. 
I'd say your time is something like:
Take the test and get as high a score as possible, I think they're good for 3 years so be sure to take them at an appropriate time.
Continue to build hours, preferably instrument time.
Volunteer for a full SERE-C course (you're going to hate me for recommending that but it'll help you get hired and get it out of the way nice and early while you're young). It's something you'll have to do anyway if you want to be an AF pilot and it's quality training. I think it has a year ADSO so the sooner the better.
Start talking to guard and reserve units (1-2 years from the end of your ADSO) about your situation and timeline and how they should be able to get you into UPT before you turn 30 if things are set up in advance but you'll probably need a commissioned service waiver (if over 5 years as a commissioned officer at the time of release) but those are easy to get, especially for heavy units.
Fantastic post man

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On 1/10/2018 at 10:44 AM, Blue1316 said:

I am so glad I found this thread. I am currently serving as an Infantry officer at Ft. Riley. I have always been interested in flying so I decided to get my private pilots license and completed my training last summer. During my flight training, I realized how much I love flying and decided that I want to have a career flying planes whether that is in the military or civilian sector. However, I want to serve a career in the military so I have been looking into switching to the Air Force, or the AF reserves, to try and get a pilots slot. However, it's not possible to do a service Transfer mid contract (that I know of), so I plan on finishing my contract to the Army and then try and switch once I get out. The problem is I will be 29 and 5 months at the earliest I could get out which would put me at a critical age or disqualify me completely if there is no possibility of getting an age waiver. I want to know if what I want to do is possible? If it is, what could I be doing now to strengthen my chances of accomplishing this. I can't get out till May of 2021, so I have time to get an instrument rating or a masters. Is what I want to do only possible through the reserves? I would be happy doing anything as long as I have the chance to fly. I know some people want to fly fighters and that's it, but I would love the opportunity to fly bombers, cargo, or fuelers. Anything that would let me fly a plane. Let me know what y'all think. 

Several WP guys have done it. I met 2 others while I was rushing, one infantry and one engineer. There’s another former infantry WP guy, c/o 2000 or something, flying eagles in the guard. I’ll PM you contact info for a 2013 guy in ranger school rt now who is rushing several units. 

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