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HeloDude

Taxes, the Deficit/Debt, and the Fiscal Cliff

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Before the U.S. defaults on its debt (hypothetically)... what are the chances we would enforce collection on the foreign debts we hold? As of Jan 2011 we held some $6 Trillion in foreign nations debt. Shouldn't we be forcing them to pay us, so we can pay our bills?

Yes we'd lose the diplomatic leverage of holding that debt, but wouldn't that be less of an impact than going under?

Edited by Vertigo

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Think we'd be any more successful as a debtee making collections than a debtor making payments?

Well we do have the thugs to force the issue... many of them frequent this board.

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I'm in a blue state. What is good about that is not only does the president want to raise my taxes, the governor also wants to enhance my quality of life by raising my taxes.

The Democratic governor's plan would raise nearly $2.9 billion from the top 5 percent of taxpayers, including a new property tax on homes valued at more than $1 million.

“My budget represents my values and priorities, one of which is to keep my promises that I made to the people of Minnesota last fall,” said Mr. Dayton, who is an heir to a famed department store family(Target).

Much more quality of life enhancement by state and federal govt and I might go broke.

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That's an interesting concept...

Just making a tongue in cheek joke. Correlating the audience here with mafia thugs collecting on a debt. Wasn't being serious.

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Although I know that was intended as cheap shot at red states, I actually agree with you. That current provisional and unsustainable high quality of life was built on undiscplined spending and poor economics. The bigger the mistakes, the harder the fall. The best lessons are learned the hard way. If I had to live in a state nearing default, give me Mississippi any day. Have fun in LA.

LOL good one, you almost had me going for a second there!

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Before the U.S. defaults on its debt (hypothetically)... what are the chances we would enforce collection on the foreign debts we hold? As of Jan 2011 we held some $6 Trillion in foreign nations debt. Shouldn't we be forcing them to pay us, so we can pay our bills?

Yes we'd lose the diplomatic leverage of holding that debt, but wouldn't that be less of an impact than going under?

Great idea. I'm sure they are all awash with cash...... Ever heard you can't get blood from a turnip?

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Think we'd be any more successful as a debtee making collections than a debtor making payments?

It's been said before...

If I owe you $100,000...I have a problem

If I owe you $6,000,000,000,000....YOU have a problem.

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I'm in a blue state. What is good about that is not only does the president want to raise my taxes, the governor also wants to enhance my quality of life by raising my taxes.

I would gladly pay MN taxes to have the schools, public infrastructure (ALMOST no toll roads never mind about that one bridge), industry, and higher educational opportunities that MN has to offer. Between myself and my sugar momma we pay plenty in taxes, but what we pay is a pittance for the services and stability our government provides.

Much more quality of life enhancement by state and federal govt and I might go broke.

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Wow.

I'm glad you think what you and your sugar momma pay in taxes is a pittance. I don't.

I'm also glad you think you get way more than you pay for. Unfortunately, you're right. The govt is giving away more than they are being paid.

The stability we have is not because of taxes nor is it because of the deficit spending you're so happily enjoying. In fact, it is at risk for that very reason.

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I would gladly pay MN taxes to have the...industry, and higher educational opportunities that MN has to offer.

BTW, possibly the dumbest statement ever made.

I am always amazed when people think their taxes pay for things like "industry" and private education.

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BTW, possibly the dumbest statement ever made.

I am always amazed when people think their taxes pay for things like "industry" and private education.

People make choices like these all the time. If you want to move to a very good neighborhood with very good schools, you are going to have to pay the higher property taxes found for that city. If you do not like it you can move to a different city. Most people that can afford it enjoy the benefits enough to stay. It is same on the state level to a certain degree. Many people like to pay more taxes because the benefits often greatly outweigh the costs.

Paying taxes is largely up to you because you decide where to live.

Infrastructure and industry go hand and hand. Taxes pay for infrastructure which is an important part of developing industry. Taxes don’t pay for private education (except in rare circumstances) but taxes can be used to make a public school compete with the best private schools in the country. If you don’t like it because you are being taxed but do not have children, you can move. If you can’t afford to move, you are most likely exempt from paying the taxes in the first place.

Edited by one

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If you don’t like it because you are being taxed but do not have children, you can move. If you can’t afford to move, you are most likely exempt from paying the taxes in the first place.

Most schools are funded by property taxes, the rates for which are not progressive like the income tax scale.

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Most schools are funded by property taxes, the rates for which are not progressive like the income tax scale.

If you are low income, there are many low income property tax credits. It depends on where you live because there are programs at the federal, state, and county level.

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People make choices like these all the time. If you want to move to a very good neighborhood with very good schools, you are going to have to pay the higher property taxes found for that city. If you do not like it you can move to a different city. Most people that can afford it enjoy the benefits enough to stay. It is same on the state level to a certain degree. Many people like to pay more taxes because the benefits often greatly outweigh the costs.

Hey, thanks for the craniums up. That's something I didn't know.

The problem with your statement is you are not putting it in the proper context. can you see that for yourself or does someone have to explain it to you?

Many people like to pay more taxes because the benefits often greatly outweigh the costs.

They do? Is that right? So you're saying many people like paying higher taxes because they get great benefits? Is that why we are now focusing on the top 2%?

Where are these "many people" you refer to? Is there a way to identify them so that we can get them to volunteer to pay more in taxes? Who did those "many people" vote for and did they vote so that they themselves could pay more in taxes because of the tremendous exponential value they see when they give their money to the government?

Paying taxes is largely up to you because you decide where to live.

So, love it or leave it? Seriously?

Again, can you put the proper context on this to see how silly this is as a rationale for the state increasing people's income and property taxes in the ways I described here in Minnesota? Top 2% take a hit (actually, Dayton was talking about anyone over $110k/yr at one point) and anyone with property valued over $1myn takes a hit from the state (not the local govt).

Infrastructure and industry go hand and hand. Taxes pay for infrastructure which is an important part of developing industry.

Thanks again for the enlightened high school civics lecture. Any ideas about the practical application of infrastructure and "developing industry." Are you saying "if we tax more then we build it they will come" is the right approach?

Context. Try it.

Taxes don’t pay for private education (except in rare circumstances) but taxes can be used to make a public school compete with the best private schools in the country. If you don’t like it because you are being taxed but do not have children, you can move. If you can’t afford to move, you are most likely exempt from paying the taxes in the first place.

WTF are you talking about? Seriously, WTFO?

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If you don’t like it because you are being taxed but do not have children, you can move. If you can’t afford to move, you are most likely exempt from paying the taxes in the first place.

Horribly myopic view of the world. Do you think moving is cheap? Especially when you live near where you work?

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Where are these "many people" you refer to? Is there a way to identify them so that we can get them to volunteer to pay more in taxes? Who did those "many people" vote for and did they vote so that they themselves could pay more in taxes because of the tremendous exponential value they see when they give their money to the government?

People who live in Marin County in California pay some of the highest property taxes on the West coast. They also get to have the best public transportation system and schools that produce some of the best test scores in the country. I would be happy to pay the taxes knowing what the county has to offer. If you live in Detroit your taxes will likely be very low but the city has very little to offer. You pay for nice things in the form of taxes. People who live in Marin County that complain about high taxes are usually the same people that would complain if funding for their child's school was cut. Many people choose high taxes because of the benefit. Just because people do not like paying a bill doesn’t mean they do not choose to pay high taxes.

You can see stark contrasts between states as well.

Edited by one

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Horribly myopic view of the world. Do you think moving is cheap? Especially when you live near where you work?

This was the same topic we had in the Election thread. Rainman and others talked about how people that lived below the poverty line should move to find better jobs instead of getting government handouts... If poor people should move to find work, I think the middle class can find a way to move if they really hate their states taxes that much. If the taxes are really that horrible then move. My point is, the taxes are not even close to being that bad.

Quotes about people on welfare moving to find jobs...

This may be true for those of us who have been relatively successful in life, but is simply not an option for many. People may not have the means to just up and move. They may be tied down by a job they can't afford to quit, family that needs their help, etc. Be careful about falling into the trap of only being able to relate based on your own set of circumstances. I see a lot of arguments on the conservative side that seem to reflect a rather narrow world view. The truth is, although it is the ideal this country strives for, not everyone is afforded the same opportunities. Conservatives tend to brush aside this fact while liberals will argue that the playing field needs to be leveled.

I hate this argument.

How badly do you want to improve your situation? That's the question people need to ask themselves.

Edited by one

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This was the same topic we had in the Election thread. Rainman and others talked about how people that lived below the poverty line should move to find better jobs instead of getting government handouts... If poor people should move to find work, I think the middle class can find a way to move if they really hate their states taxes that much. If the taxes are really that horrible then move. My point is, the taxes are not even close to being that bad.

Quotes about people on welfare moving to find jobs...

Moving to find a job is not the same as having a job and moving to escape high taxes. Don't be dense.

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I know it is not the same. One person has almost no money and the other is middle class. If you think someone that is working a minimum wage job and receiving some government aid should move to find a better job you must also think that someone that makes the median income can afford to move out of the state to avoid taxes. Moving to avoid taxes is ridiculous because it never happens. How bad do people want to avoid those taxes? I am saying that no one would actually move because the taxes are not really that bad. People just like to complain about taxes.

I don't mind taxes as long as there is not a ton of waste and fraud. The problem is waste and fraud is running rampant. If you can see what you are getting from the taxes, you are less likely to mind.

Edited by one

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It appears that your mind is simply incapable of separating government policies and private sector basic Adam Smith economic principles.

You are mixing things together that are unrelated and out of context with one another.

It's like you're standing up at Red Flag and saying...

"If you don't like the min range AIM-120 parameters you shouldn't go to the tanker. You can either go to the tanker or shop at the BX but Burger King is closed after 1700 so the abort for the MK-82HD deliveries is for fuze. Any questions?"

Stop.

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It's like you're standing up at Red Flag and saying...

"If you don't like the min range AIM-120 parameters you shouldn't go to the tanker. You can either go to the tanker or shop at the BX but Burger King is closed after 1700 so the abort for the MK-82HD deliveries is for fuze. Any questions?"

Is it bad that all that made perfect sense to me?

Except for the part about abort and the MK-82HD. I have no idea what that means (anymore). I can spell JDAM though.

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After reading this I have come to realize that I was wrong. I used to think Democrats were fucking stupid, you know like Tim Tebow stupid. However, it turns out Democrats are actually really smart. It is the people that vote for Democrats that are stupid, and the Democrats know this. As you can see people who vote democrat know absolutely nothing about economics. So, Democratic candidates and make ridiculous economic decisions and the stupid people will still vote for them.

Now, the republicans have figured out that democratic votes are dumb as hell and are capitalizing on it…. And the Democrats don’t like this one bit. WTF am I talking about? Labor Laws! Seems very few people in this country know dick about labor laws. So, some Republican Governors in “Blue States” are successfully passing “Right to work” legislation and you have the President telling all the dumb fucks out there they are trying to strip you of your collective bargaining rights!!! Can some please explain to me how ”right to work” legislation strips you of your collective bargaining rights???

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Can some please explain to me how ”right to work” legislation strips you of your collective bargaining rights???

You don't know much about the subject I take it? (like at all)

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You don't know much about the subject I take it? (like at all)

I actually know a lot. But I guess you are saying giving some the right to get a job without being forced to pay union dues strlrips everyone of their collective bargains rights.

You are malking my point.

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