Army vs Air Force flying

[Guest TheAviator]

I was wondering if anyone has been in both (Army and AF) military training flight schools?

I am looking at both pilot training schools. I want to fly more than anything and currently I was selected to fly heavies in the Air Guard. But talking and looking at various posts it looks like the washout rate of Air Force UPT is about 30% to 50%. Where the Army is only 10%.

Taking a small look at entry academics the AFAST is alot easier than the AFOQT (38 PICSM; 56 Pilot, 54 Nav). It took me about 6-years to get my bachelors with work etc. (Right now I am getting my instrument rating and have 115 hours of flying.) I am not a good test taker, and learning takes a little longer for me. I heard the Air Force has a higher speed program. Where if you cannot keep up they boot you out. Where the Army encourages you to pass through their program. Either way you are going to get some good training. I am just trying to get some feedback from some experienced pilots.

I am not trying to take the easy route I just want a realistic chance at getting my wings!

[Stiffler]

Dude, seriously, go commissioned in ANG. I havent met one Army guy who would disagree...and no disrespect to their branch.

If you show relentless effort and a good attitude, the ip's will do everything short of miracling you through UPT. If you have a bad attitude, well, thats a different story.

[Chuck17]

Dude, heres the thing and you hit on it in your original post...

Do you want to fly for a service that is all about supporting one goal: Airpower - or do you want to fly for a service that has several 'irons in the fire' - ie tanks, grunts, artillery, etc, etc.

If you want to fly, the AF is the only way to do it. You said it yourself, the AFAST is easier than the AFOQT. That should be a hint right there. The USAF is a technically minded group of professional officers and enlisted folks whose soul purpose is to fly and fight or support those who do. That aint the case in the Army. The army needs bullet stoppers as bad as they need Apache pilots... thats why the AFAST is easy.

Good luck with your decisions and good on ya for asking the questions from those with experience. Dont believe the hype - get the answers for yourself.

[ 31. January 2005, 10:04: Message edited by: ChuckFlys17s ]

[Guest AirGuardian]

Helos and small haulers... sure why not!

Find your priorities: Fast movers, stealth, bombers, tac air, passing gas, roaming radar, heavy haulers, etc. AF owns the sky, others just borrow it - we rent the dirt on the other hand...

To know where the rubber meets the road is how they take care of you! Enjoyed all the fun Army stuff(jumping, fast roping, repelling, slinging, rucking, etc.) aside from flight and I've been bivwacked with them, give this tenderfoot a Marriot - stick a fork in them, they're done - or "ate up" if you like!

[ 31. January 2005, 23:52: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

[Guest AirGuardian]

Not a former helo guy,

But if any of there other ground courses match the aviation courses(doubtful since they were mostly filled with cartoon pics, I sh*t you not!) then I'm positive Army is a much easier route, although hovering I hear ain't easy...tried it, definitely not easy for this dog... :rolleyes:

Army does do some of the most intense helo flying around (160th Av), but initially I believe from what my classmate indicated (former UH-60 guy)is that the AF is quite a bit more rigorous and into pushing max knowledge vs a less dense environment, but quite verbose harassment back in the day for the Army. He went over 10 years ago mind you and then on to black hawks later. I really couldn't tell you that much. :confused:

Wash out rate: It's really a crap shoot to me since I had 10 lost from 30 in my class. 1 SIE, 2 medical and 7 flying deficiencies... Quite abnormal, but then again its the individual so that's my story. Take the advice of alot of guys, there is help all the way through the program - but you have got to push and show intestinal fortitude, they're not going to coddle you by any means.

I firmly believe we have a more strict/intense program than the Army program - only basing it on a few of our prior Army helo guys have had it kinda rough even going thru fixed wing qual course - a much more watered down version from what I witnessed. We lost one former Apache guy as well. But I must say, they were merely having a hard time transitioning. This is a very hard subject - Army may be easier for you and you may have golden hands with a helo. Go find out - get a lesson or two in helos vs fixed wing that's my only best advice since most of us don't know our own shortfalls until we are confronted with them. Academically, maybe the Army for you - I don't know, but good luck and I'm sure I've confused you even more...

[ 01. February 2005, 01:29: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

[hawkdriver29]

New to the board, so I'll throw my 2 cents in and hope I don't look like a fool. Being an Army aviator, I tend to agree with the consensus. I don't want to come off like I'm bashing the Army, but most of us realize that life is better in the AF. Better pay, better standard of living, better support. As I said, nothing against the Army, but we're owned by the ground pounder's who don't always understand the needs of aviation. Also, if you're thinking about life after the military, I would think fixed wing time is more marketable than rotary wing time. Like I said, just my 2 cents.

[Guest HueyPilot]

I've been through both Army IERW (Initial Entry Rotary Wing flight school) and AF UPT. The courses are organized differently (obviously...one primarily training helo pilots and the other FW pilots), but the training philosophy is very similar (vs the Navy style). You follow a strict timeline in both programs and are expected to master certain events by a given point in the course.

The Army course is a bit shorter, but I wouldn't say it is any easier than the AF course. Helos are harder to learn to fly than airplanes...and while you don't have to memorize verbatim the "boldface" in the Army course, you have to be able to spout off around two dozen emergency procedures from memory since you likely won't have time to reference the checklist.

The Army course also throws in a few "Armyisms", requiring you to do a 4-day field exercise, several road marches, and a few other "fun" Army events (like land navigation, obstacle courses, etc). Air Force UPT is strictly flying-oriented.

As for wash-out rates, it's about the same. While attending IERW, I didn't witness as many SIEs as I did in the AF (don't know why that is), but the numbers of students actually washed-out for flying-related problems was about the same...both my IERW class and my UPT class lost one student.

The AFOQT and the AFAST can't really be compared...yes the AFOQT is harder. That's because it's an officer qualification test. If you enter the US Army as a commissioned officer you'd have to take their officer qualifying test as well as the AFAST. The AFAST is strictly a flying aptitude test.

My advice: If you just want to fly for the military, and don't care what kind of flying it is, go USAF. They are oriented around the flying mission...you don't have to play grunt at all (unless you get an ALO job), and the USAF's facilities are much better and aircraft are better equipped.

Army flying is very unique...units are organized into Regiments, Battalions and Companys. You are directly supporting ground troops. You live in the field with them, eat in the field, sleep in the field. You park your aircraft in some open meadow and pitch your tents (sts) in the treeline and set up hasty fighting positions. You rarely fly over 1000' AGL, and you'd likely belong to a distinct fraternity of pilots called Army Warrant Officers.

But you'd probably only fly a couple hundred hours a year, or less. You'll spend as much time flying as you will doing basic grunt training (ie weapons qual, MOPP training, sitting out in the woods with a Kevlar helmet and face paint on, etc). And you'll have to work on and live near Army posts, which are pretty ghetto compared to your normal AF Base.

Anyways, that's my .02 cents. I flew as a Army Guard UH-1 pilot for nearly 4 years, and I'm currently flying Herks for the AD USAF. And my father was an active Army AH-1 pilot. Any other questions, just ask.

[Guest drelyn8]

Huey pilot- good post.

I am an ex army aviator now attending UPT for C-130's. (+ regional airline pilot) I loved the Army and don't think I'll ever have as much fun flying as I did in the Army. Both flight schools are harsh, but I will say that the USAF prepares you better for life after the service. They train you to be a PIC from day one unlike the Army which trains you to be a copilot. Plus the USAF has a track for becoming a PIC as the army relies soley on politics and the need for more PIC's.

If you have an opportunity to go to a heavy unit. Do not pass it up. Seriously do not pass it up. Flying is the job.

In all schools I have been in OCS, Army flight school, USAF flight school(numeroous enlisted and officer schools) there have always been others that I was surprised they made it there.

Just the fact that you are finding out this info before making a decision tells me that you are selling yourself short. The warrant program is excellent but not without jobs not pertaining to flight.

One last comment. Army flight training was much more difficult with regards to actually handling the acft. Helos are much more difficult to learn to fly. Anyone can fly an airplane. Therefore the Army has to spend soo much time just ensuring that you can actually fly the aircraft. The USAF spends alot of time on the reg's, IFR, etc. Items that are essential when you become more comfortable in the aircraft.

Good luck!!

[Guest HueyPilot]

Plus the USAF has a track for becoming a PIC as the army relies soley on politics and the need for more PIC's.

I'll back that one up! One of the reasons I left the ARNG (aside from flying less than 100 hours a year) was the PIC debacle. I had about 300 hours TT (there isn't really a minimum time requirement...just when your unit feels you're "ready"), and our supervisory instructor pilot (SIP) had recommended me for PIC. Our commander felt we didn't need anymore PICs, and myself and a couple others basically had to wait until someone left the unit or died.

So I got my conditional release from the ARNG to go active duty AF, and suddenly I was offered the chance to upgrade to PIC (well, not really an "upgrade", they just make you one and you undergo a few supervisory rides to ensure you won't kill yourself and someone else). That's how it is in the Army. And the Army Guard is worse...who you know, versus WHAT you know is key there.

One guy who finished IERW after me came back qualified in the OH-58 (I asked to go to that track but was told no), then got himself into the Medevac unit and got qualified on the UH-1. Since he knew the headquarters guys, he also got to fly the OH-58C+ RAID helo from time to time. Then, only a few months back from the UH-1 course, he went to Rucker to attend the UH-60 AQC (aircraft qual course), and flew UH-60As with the battalion. THEN, he talked one of his buddies at NGB (he worked for LAARNG headquarters and knew most of the NGB staff in DC that doled out the training $$$) to give him a fall-out C-12 slot.

Unfortunately the CW5 who commanded the C-12 detachment was less than thrilled, since he liked to interview and hand-pick his new C-12 pilots. So this intrepid moocher was told he would never touch the Louisiana Guard C-12, and left for New Jersey to fly theirs. That's the last I heard of that guy...but the ARNG is very political...a big reason why I left.

[Guest fartman38]

For the Army pilots: Not really "regret" but would you wish to fly for the AF instead of the Army Helos?

And for the AF pilots: Would you give up your AF career to fly helos in the Army?

If anyone wants to give personal anecdotes, I'd be happy to listen to them. I just want comparisons between the Army and AF other than the usual such as 'Army is tougher' or 'AF has a better quality of life'

[OverTQ]

After working assignments for two years I have come to the conclusion that pilots are a different variety of whores. That may be disrespectful to the working ladies but there are not too many pilots who would not go fly something else for somebody else given the chance. There is a large group of pilots who always think somebody else has it better or is making more money. My thoughts are if you are happy and all systems are in the green, don't pulling off the throttles or seeing what "this switch" will do.

[baileynme]

Depends on what you want, Army is tougher, AF has better quality of life.

[Termy]

First time poster. I have done both: I flew UH-60's for the Army for seven years and have flown Vipers for eight. So I can't speak to flying helos for the USAF, but I have certainly seen both branches. I can sum it up easy for you: if you want to fly for the Army, become a Warrant. If you want to fly for the USAF, go Guard (or to a slightly lesser degree, Reserves.) Those are the two best ways to minimize the pain for you and maximize the opportunity to continue to go places and fight wars.

[Guest]

If you want to fly for the USAF, go Guard (or to a slightly lesser degree, Reserves.)

Here's a bit more pragmatic advice...if you want to fly for the USAF take whatever opportunity you can get.

Don't listen to the guys that got lucky and convinced some Guard unit to hire them when they act like getting a pilot slot in the Guard is easy. It is not, unless you know someone...then it is the easiest thing in the world to do.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

I've done both. I was in the Louisiana Army National Guard for nearly 8 years, of which I flew for them for about half that time. I was a Warrant Officer and flew both slick and medevac Hueys. Around the end of 1999 I left the ARNG for the active duty USAF and I've been flying on AD since then.

From a purely pilot perspective...flying helicopters is a blast and I loved it. It's mostly VFR flying, in the weeds and a lot of low-level (nap of the Earth...in the trees). Nothing I do in the USAF will be quite like flying around with the doors open in a Huey. Also the Army operates a lot like the Navy does with respect to flying regs...unless things have changed dramtically in the past 10 years, their flying regs consisted of AR 95-1 (most of which is a reprint of FAR 91), the -10 (-1 for USAF types) and the FAR/AIM. Everything else was printed as a Field Manual.

That being said, there's another side to that coin. I do a lot of things in the USAF I could never do in a helicopter. Flying to South America, Europe and a host of other locations...being able to sample those places and then head home in the same time period. If you ever see one of those places in a helicopter, you're going to be there for a while because you're deployed. No out and backs or off-station trainers to locations outside the local flying area 99% of the time when you fly helos. Plus (and this is a big one), USAF pilots tend to fly more than Army pilots...unless of course you're deployed, then you fly a lot. But back in garrison, Army pilots don't fly as much as AF pilots. In the ARNG, I flew less than 100 hours a year, and that was actually trying to fly a lot.

If it weren't for the threat of being deployed for 12-18 months, I'd consider going back to the ARNG as a warrant and flying for them again. But I doubt I'd be willing to go active duty Army. If you're going to do the Army thing, at the very least fly as a warrant officer. Commissioned officers don't fly much, they are essentially commanders and staff. They maintain enough experience in the aircraft to have an idea of what their warrants are doing on a daily basis, and no more. Chances are as a LT you'd arrive as a platoon leader. Enjoy that time because that's probably the most you'll get to fly in your career. Then you'll move on to being a company XO or perhaps a battalion staff guy as a junior captain. As a senior captain you'll probably command a company, and that'll probably be the last "real" flying job you'll have in the Army. Once you leave the company, you'll probably spend the next several years as a battalion staff guy. If you're lucky as a senior major or junior LTC you might be the battalion XO and then the battalion CO, but you still won't get to fly too much. Don't expect to become an instructor pilot or even a maintenance pilot as a commissioned guy. Yes, there are some commissioned guys that managed to work those quals, but it's not as easy to do as it used to be (although I don't know, with today's OPSTEMPO with deployments, maybe the Army started letting more commissioned guys be IPs/MTPs).

If you go into the Army as a warrant, flying will be your primary job. You'll probably branch off into one of the major career directions, such as instructor pilot, maintenance test pilot or safety. It's a lot like being a LT or junior Captain in the Air Force, but you get to do it for the rest of your career.

Other pros/cons I've noticed...if you intend on having a flying career after the military, it's generally easier to find a job as a fixed wing guy, and FW pilots tend to get paid more. As one of my former Army mentors used to say, the commercial helicopter pilot field is akin to the professional white-collar slave trade. Long hours, tiring days, and pay that rarely breaks the $100K mark, although that was 10 years ago so things may have changed somewhat. But also figure that most helo ops are Part 135, versus many FW ops are Part 121...now you're talking about totally different games when it comes to crew rest rules, etc. On the other hand, nothing's quite like flying a helicopter. I haven't flown a fighter so I can't say much about that...but the closest I got was the old T-37 and as much fun as that was, when it comes down to the basic fun of flying, I'd take the helicopter, unless I was actually trying to get somewhere.

That's probably too much rambling but I figured maybe some of the lurkers and noobs out there that haven't yet committed to one path or the other might get something out of it. I focused on the Army for a reason...this board tends to focus on AF flying so I wrote more about the subject most people on here have limited knowledge about.

[alwyn2d]

Over the last 40-50 years or so, there have been literally hundreds of Army pilots that transferred their flying skills to the AF on AD, Res, or ANG status. I bet you can count on your right hand with 2 fingers missing on the number of AF pilots that transferred to fly as Army aviators on ACTIVE DUTY. Hint Hint.

[OverTQ]

Sad truth is, despite your choice, much of your career is going to be under the control of timing. Think about where you want to be in 20 years. You may think flying is all you want to do now, but one day you will most likely be married with kids. Only wanting to be a pilot is great if all you want to be is a MAJ or W4. However, there is point at which you become a proficient pilot and may seek more challenge. Not to mention the pay raises (and the retirement pay raises that brings) that comes with promotion. I don't have any problem with doing staff work and being a pilot in command. As such, I get pretty much all the flight time I want. You may fly several aircraft over a career. Keep in consideration that times change. The wars of today may not be the wars of tomorrow. But in the end remember, you will be serving your country either way while getting fly. That is all that really matters.

[DeHavilland]

From a purely pilot perspective...flying helicopters is a blast and I loved it. It's mostly VFR flying, in the weeds and a lot of low-level (nap of the Earth...in the trees). Nothing I do in the USAF will be quite like flying around with the doors open in a Huey. Also the Army operates a lot like the Navy does with respect to flying regs...unless things have changed dramtically in the past 10 years, their flying regs consisted of AR 95-1 (most of which is a reprint of FAR 91), the -10 (-1 for USAF types) and the FAR/AIM. Everything else was printed as a Field Manual.

If you're going to do the Army thing, at the very least fly as a warrant officer. Commissioned officers don't fly much, they are essentially commanders and staff. They maintain enough experience in the aircraft to have an idea of what their warrants are doing on a daily basis, and no more. Chances are as a LT you'd arrive as a platoon leader. Enjoy that time because that's probably the most you'll get to fly in your career. Then you'll move on to being a company XO or perhaps a battalion staff guy as a junior captain. As a senior captain you'll probably command a company, and that'll probably be the last "real" flying job you'll have in the Army. Once you leave the company, you'll probably spend the next several years as a battalion staff guy. If you're lucky as a senior major or junior LTC you might be the battalion XO and then the battalion CO, but you still won't get to fly too much. Don't expect to become an instructor pilot or even a maintenance pilot as a commissioned guy. Yes, there are some commissioned guys that managed to work those quals, but it's not as easy to do as it used to be (although I don't know, with today's OPSTEMPO with deployments, maybe the Army started letting more commissioned guys be IPs/MTPs).

If you go into the Army as a warrant, flying will be your primary job. You'll probably branch off into one of the major career directions, such as instructor pilot, maintenance test pilot or safety. It's a lot like being a LT or junior Captain in the Air Force, but you get to do it for the rest of your career.

Army Warrant Officers are the IP's, Safety Officers, Maintenance Officers and all the extra duty officers in a Army aviation unit. I have served in the Army for 27 years. All as a Warrant Officer. For all but one year of that, I have been in the cockpit. That is not too unheard of as a Warrant Officer. I have sixteen years in helicopters and 10 years in fixed-wing. Despite deployments, I come to work with a smile on my face every day and looking forward to it. Has it sucked at some point? Sure, but doesn't every job give you some suck? But they pay me extra to do what I want to do and the base pay is pretty darn nice at this point too. If you want to fly for a career, come in as a Warrant Officer. If you want to lead folks in the Army, come in as a LT and know that over a 20 year career, you will probably be closest to a cockpit for only the first 5 years. After that the flight time goes down and the staff work goes up.

The grass always looks greener in the other guys yard. If you want the better quality of life and to lead and the slightly higher pay, but less flight time over a career that comes with it, go Air Force. If you have your heart set on flying, go to the Army as a Warrant Officer.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Sad truth is, despite your choice, much of your career is going to be under the control of timing. Think about where you want to be in 20 years. You may think flying is all you want to do now, but one day you will most likely be married with kids. Only wanting to be a pilot is great if all you want to be is a MAJ or W4. However, there is point at which you become a proficient pilot and may seek more challenge. Not to mention the pay raises (and the retirement pay raises that brings) that comes with promotion. I don't have any problem with doing staff work and being a pilot in command. As such, I get pretty much all the flight time I want. You may fly several aircraft over a career. Keep in consideration that times change. The wars of today may not be the wars of tomorrow. But in the end remember, you will be serving your country either way while getting fly. That is all that really matters.

Good point. Think about your long-term priorities as well. If you're hell-bent on flying and you're fine with capping out in the pay scale at a W4, then that'll fit you just fine. But I think a lot of young warrants look at the short-term pay scales and honestly, a W1 doesn't make that much less than an O1. By the time guys make W2 and O3, that pay split widens considerably.

My advice...if you go in as a warrant, have your bachelor's degree done and under your belt. There are opportunities to attend OCS at some point down the road if you've satisfied that flying bug and feel you want a different career path. I've had a lot of my friends who went into Army aviation as a WO1 and they are now commissioned officers...families, life expenses, whatever, they wanted the enhanced career opportunity of the commissioned route after they spent the first several years flying their asses off as warrants. But if you enter WOCS with just some college (I would say none but in my experience I didn't meet many warrants that hadn't had some college done) it makes it tougher if you want to go that way...a 4-year degree is a hard-set requirement for OCS.

For what it's worth, I'm an O4, in my late 30s and I still love to fly, but not everyone feels that way. I've got plenty of friends who are done with the flying side and want a staff gig or just want to get out and get a civilian non-flying job. Again, think about where you want to be further down the road.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Hueypilot812

[Guest fartman38]

Straight out of ROTC, can you choose to commission as a WO instead of a CO? Or do you have to attend a Warrant school?

And seems like most Warrants stay much longer than their requirement of 6 years of flying. Or do most leave for a civilian life?

Some Warrants after flying helos decide to fly Fixed Wings for the AF after. Is that like a transfer option during their 6 required years, or do they finish their 6 years and pursue a UPT slot for AF? How does this process work?

What's the level of popularity/competition for the helos in the Army? (Apache, Blackhawk, Chinook, Kiowa, UAV)

[Lawman]

Straight out of ROTC, can you choose to commission as a WO instead of a CO? Or do you have to attend a Warrant school?

And seems like most Warrants stay much longer than their requirement of 6 years of flying. Or do most leave for a civilian life?

Some Warrants after flying helos decide to fly Fixed Wings for the AF after. Is that like a transfer option during their 6 required years, or do they finish their 6 years and pursue a UPT slot for AF? How does this process work?

What's the level of popularity/competition for the helos in the Army? (Apache, Blackhawk, Chinook, Kiowa, UAV)

Out of ROTC your Commissioned as an RLO, straight and simple. Warrants are either selected from Prior Enlisted in any of the Services or from Street to Seat Aviators out of the WOFT program. Currently the trend is about 80-85% Prior/20-15% Street to Seat. You can revert from a Commission officer to a Warrant in Aviation and Ive seen guys who have done it but its not exactly a normal process. Most of the people I know that have successfully did it came from branches outside Aviation and often times from Guard to Active or vice verse. Also as far as time they stay, you gotta keep that in mind most of the guys your bringing in to aviation as "new guys" already have however many years towards their retirement.

Going to the other services... Ill let somebody with experience doing such speak on it as to the actual process. However it is important to recognize that one services flight school may or may not meet the requirements for another. There is the old joke though, Where do you find the most talented Army Helicopter Pilots...... The Coast Guard.

Competition... Popularity? Who F'ing cares you will get what you get when and if you complete all the stuff leading up too and including IERW. I fly guns, I picked guns, I picked 3rd and I had the option to select from anything but Chinooks. Currently we have a 300% manning in Chinooks you just arent seeing more than 1 or 2 tops dropped at a selection and often times not at all. I know other guys that graduated just as high and got "stuck" in something they didnt originally want because the selection went something like 1x Apache, 1x Kiowa, 18x Hawks. Usually there will be one guy hard up for taking the fat girl home and he's welcome to them. Hawks/Kiowa/Apache... depends who you ask why they do whatever. Some guys used to Crew on a particular bird and want to fly that. Others look at possible basing assignments. If you wanna go to Hawaii, you arent gonna do it in an Apache. Some guys are smart enough to pick the mission, others are retards with delusions of how great a stick they will be and want to take a Hawk like its some sort of magic ticket to the 160th. And finally there are guys who just get what they get because they spent their weekends hungover and got whatever was left at the end of selection with the rest of the bottom of the class. Maybe its what they wanted, maybe they are like the one tool bag in my group that complained he had to fly scouts when he graduated last in the class and was lucky to be flying anything. Oh and we dont fly UAVs. Thats an entirely different MOS in the Army they dont pick from Aviation after all that money and time and training to waste us on that hell.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Straight out of ROTC, can you choose to commission as a WO instead of a CO? Or do you have to attend a Warrant school?

And seems like most Warrants stay much longer than their requirement of 6 years of flying. Or do most leave for a civilian life?

Some Warrants after flying helos decide to fly Fixed Wings for the AF after. Is that like a transfer option during their 6 required years, or do they finish their 6 years and pursue a UPT slot for AF? How does this process work?

What's the level of popularity/competition for the helos in the Army? (Apache, Blackhawk, Chinook, Kiowa, UAV)

As already answered, if you complete ROTC you go in as a 2LT. Only way to become a warrant officer is to complete WOCS and apply for that separately. Having a college degree would help if you sent your packet in.

There are opportunities to fly fixed wing within the Army, but they are limited. Mostly flying C-12s, RC-12s, UC-35s and an odd assortment of other FW types. If you want to fly FW, then seek another service.

Transferring to the Air Force depends on whether your a commissioned officer or a warrant. Commissioned officers in the Army must apply for an interservice transfer (IST). That is a matter of timing. Many times the Army won't release you. Other times they may. No guarantees on that one, just "right place, right time". Warrants can apply for Air Force Officer Training School (OTS) once their initial commitment is up. If you apply prior to that you'd have to get a conditional release (to let you out of your commitment) and again, that's not likely. I got a conditional release and left 2 years early, but I was also Army National Guard and not active duty...different set of players and conditions. Even then, the adage "right place, right time" still applies...people who saw me apply and leave were not granted conditional releases later on. So best way to do that is to wait for your six years to end and then apply for OTS.

If you get accepted through OTS, you'll attend that and then a fixed-wing flying program. If you qualify for Fixed-Wing Qualification (FWQ), then you might get lucky and attend that course. If you don't then you go through the full-up UPT syllabus, as I did. I don't know the particulars and it's been a long time ago, but I remember being told you have to have 1,000 military hours to qualify for FWQ, at least on the active-duty side. The ANG and AFRC have different rules and I've seen guys with fewer than 1,000 hours attend FWQ.

Regardless of all of the above, I'd urge you to consider what you really want to do. If you want to fly FW, then don't bother with the Army and try for the USAF or Navy. If you think flying helicopters is what you'd like to do then by all means consider the Army...but realize the Army is the only branch that trains 100% of its new pilots on RW aircraft first. I never so much as touched an airplane the entire time I went through Rucker. The USAF, Navy and MC all train their pilots in the T-6/T-34 prior to branching them off to helos.

What you get when you graduate depends on what's available and your class ranking. I was Guard so my fate was pretty much a given (UH-1s). But for my AD friends, about half got what they wanted. Generally, if you graduate in the top half of the class, you'll get the airframe of your choice. The only people I saw that got both airframe and post (base) of their choice were the top few. The bottom half generally gets their second or third choice. Several people wanted lift (UH-60 or CH-47) to a nice post but instead got OH-58Ds to Ft Polk...they weren't happy. It's typically not easy to get the CH-47...not many airframes and a lot of students want to fly the Chinook for whatever reason. The next two that are in demand are usually UH-60s and AH-64s. If you want an OH-58D that's not hard to get, at least it wasn't when I went through Rucker. All the dudes who were pissed about their assignments got 58Ds. There were a few that really wanted to fly in the Cav and got their dream choice of a 58D to a Cav post, but most tried to avoid it. Back then, they sometimes had a FW slot direct from IERW (Initial Entry Rotary Wing...the Army's version of UPT), but I don't know if they are still doing that. Given the strain on active units with helos, I doubt it. Someone in the Army now might be able to tell you a more up-to-date answer.

Oh and we dont fly UAVs. Thats an entirely different MOS in the Army they dont pick from Aviation after all that money and time and training to waste us on that hell.

Imagine that...the Army actually doing something that makes sense. Take a look, Big Blue.

[nsplayr]

Huey,

Is there a reason KWs are undesirable? I know little to nothing about the Army or helicopters but from a 6-9 second google search the mission seems alright to untrained eyes...

[Lawman]

They have been selecting new Warrants for a direct Fixed Wing transition on the condition that they complete an advanced aircraft qualification before hand. Typically they send them through Hawks since its short and instruments is part of it. Somebody high up decided they wanted to start vetting young guys into the Fixed Wing community in order to develop a cadre of experienced Senior Warrants within that community over the next 10 years. That selection is very conditional though. They offered a slot to a guy in my unit that just got done with the AQC for the 64, but that was because he had been a CRJ pilot in the civilian world before he went street to seat. They let my class take a look at the requirements they were wanting for selection to that program and it was pretty stringent. A lot of guys who were interested in the program but we're ruled out for Unsat flight evals, failed academics tests, etc. Basically if your shit didnt stink and there was a slot open you could actually get a fixed wing slot but its not something Id go betting on. They're only handing out something like 4-5 of them over the course of a fiscal year.

Huey,

Is there a reason KWs are undesirable? I know little to nothing about the Army or helicopters but from a 6-9 second google search the mission seems alright to untrained eyes...

Underpowered, Single Engine, Poor High Alt/High Temp performance, No Armor/protection whatsoever, Just enough Firepower to piss something off instead of kill it....

I wanted Scouts based on the mission before I got into flight school and flew the 67. The mission is amazing, but fact of the matter is the Apache is picking up a large chunk of their mission due to the conditions we operate in. Plus the Army hasnt put dick for money into that community over the last 15 years being that Comanche was supposed to replace it (our 12 Billion dollar pile of shame) and then the ARH-70 after that. Most of the buddies from flight school that went 58 were just all about the whole doors off in the weeds shooting with an M4 out the door mystique.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Huey,

Is there a reason KWs are undesirable? I know little to nothing about the Army or helicopters but from a 6-9 second google search the mission seems alright to untrained eyes...

Might have just been my class. Keep in mind this was 1996 and UH-60s/CH-47s were being deployed around the world to do real-world missions and the AH-64s/OH-58Ds were mostly playing war in the field. With a real war going on, those priorities may have changed now that they are sending more lead down range at real targets.

That being said the #1 AD guy in my class got his dream job...UH-60s to Hawaii. I kept in touch and later he told me it wasn't as cracked up as it sounded. Within 6 months he figured out he would spend most of his time at the Pohakuloa training center...I remember him telling me that bivouacing on volcanic cinders wasn't too cool. His wife got island fever and they were more than happy to move to Fort Hood, his second assignment.

Underpowered, Single Engine, Poor High Alt/High Temp performance, No Armor/protection whatsoever, Just enough Firepower to piss something off instead of kill it....

I wanted Scouts based on the mission before I got into flight school and flew the 67. The mission is amazing, but fact of the matter is the Apache is picking up a large chunk of their mission due to the conditions we operate in. Plus the Army hasnt put dick for money into that community over the last 15 years being that Comanche was supposed to replace it (our 12 Billion dollar pile of shame) and then the ARH-70 after that. Most of the buddies from flight school that went 58 were just all about the whole doors off in the weeds shooting with an M4 out the door mystique.

That too.