Aerial Combat Info

[Guest kwarner04]

I'm in my last semester of college and I'm taking this class called The Economics of Decision-Making and Strategy. Basically, it says relates every decision we make to some sort of "game strategy". Basically, models for the most efficent way for people to react in situations.

Anyways, like 80% of our grade is a paper due at the end of the semester. I'm writing mine on Air Combat, or dog fighting. I've looked around for some websites with info on tactics and stuff like that, but can't find much. I was wondering if any of y'all either knew of some good websites with info like that had some good info for me to use.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, cause failing this class would REALLY SUCK!

Thanks!

[Chuck17]

Not so much websites... but BOOKS...

Reference 'Every Man a Tiger' by Tom Clancy. Not a bad start. 'Thud Ridge' would be another good source. Other than that, Id say look at the stuff (bookstore and library) written about the Vietnam conflict and after. There is PLENTY out there. A new one that just came out and is worth a read is 'Like Rolling Thunder.' I picked that one up and blazed through it quick. Good info, chronology and stats about the Vietnam war, particularly concerning air-to-air and bombing missions. Also some great info on Air America, the war in Laos and all airlift ops, FWIW.

One good story that comes to mind is the F-4/F-105 decoy missions flown during Vietnam. Not bad for a paper topic - you could probably write a whole damned paper on just those missions. Good luck, I will see what else I can dig up as far as the Gulf war and after...

Chuck

[ 11. April 2005, 01:07: Message edited by: ChuckFlys17s ]

[EvilEagle]

If you really want to know the major advances in fighter tactics, they basically all came from one man. Read "Boyd - The fighter pilot who changed the art of war" Specifically the first half. It talks about rate/radius diagrams (he developed them). It also talks about tactics from Korea through the development of the USAF Fighter Weapons School (he was an instructor). Definatley some good info in this book!

[M2]

Operation Bolo: 2 January 1967

By late 1966, U.S. losses over North Vietnam (to both MiGs and SAMs) were mounting. Colonel Robin Olds of the 8th TFW worked up a plan to decoy the PAVNAF (People's Army of Vietnam North Air Force), setting up Phantoms to electronically resemble Thuds on a bombing mission.

http://www.afa.org/magazine/Nov1998/1198mig.asp

Met Olds in C. Springs many moons ago, he got rid of the handlebar mustache. Apparantly the CSAF told him it had to go...

Cheers! M2

[ClearedHot]

If you are going to relate your paper to decision, strategy, and economics, I would suggest you check out John Boyd's OODA loop. I will attach a few links and you can find lots more on Google.

To summarize, John Boyd was a USAF fighter pilot who built a model called the OODA (Observe, Orient, Decide, Action) Loop, which describes the decision making that happens in air to air combat. In the end the person who can make correct decisions faster wins (hence the phrase….”Inside his OODA Loop”).

The great thing about the model is it can be applied to other situations, and I would think you could make a natural transition in your paper to show how it could be used in economics.

A good primer on the OODA Loop

Graphic of the OODA Loop

[Gravedigger]

Boyd's biography is filled with good crap as well. The Marine LtCol that briefed us at SOCOM had nothing but good to say about Boyd and how he changed fighting forever. I'm sure it will help your paper, but more importantly, it's an awesome story.

Boyd book

another one

John Boyd's strategy applied to business

[Guest Ragansundowner]

Another great book I've read is "Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering" by Robert L. Shaw. He breaks down Air Combat completely, specifically dog fighting. Lots of diagrams and detailed writing, but it has tons of information. The diagrams definitely help us folk who don't read so well.

-R.S.

[Toro]

Well, a big part of dogfighting (BFM) has to do with the energy egg. There is a great thread about the energy egg here.

[Guest kwarner04]

Just wanted to say thanks for all the great info and help! This will definately make things alot easier.

Maybe I can make it so technical and detailed that he'll give me an A w/o looking at the economics part of it!

Thanks again!

[Guest AirGuardian]

I'm with TORO on that one, energy egg, defensive egg, scrambled egg, it needs to be in print and sold by all PME bookstores.

Especially since all the Boyd/OODA LOOP stuff is giving me nightmares again when it was served as Gerber food to us during our earlier PME days and so forth...

You'll throw'em for a "loop" with all that detail kwarner04. Get that "A" using others who've done the work and you capitalizing on it. You're working smarter, not harder = "A" right of the bat!

[Guest fbomb]

you might want to interview pilots yourself for added information on their decision making. why not call a fighter squadron near you and try to interview some of the pilots for the paper, just a thought it couldn't hurt and might add to the paper.

[Toro]

Originally posted by fbomb:

why not call a fighter squadron near you and try to interview some of the pilots for the paper, just a thought it couldn't hurt and might add to the paper.

OPSEC - You're not too likely to find pilots who are going to talk tactics to somebody they don't know.