Promotion and PRF Information

[Cap-10]

Whole person concept not in play....shame!

Cheers,

Cap-10

[Guest ThatGuy]

Whole person concept not in play....shame! Cheers, Cap-10

Same thing happend to someone I know. Told his wife that he was getting promoted with his BAC+. Well, that made the difference in him not getting promoted and his WG/CC giving him a "P."

I asked his wife if he has ever deployed. She said his deployments to Green Flag in Alaska would count according to him. I chuckled...

Edited June 13, 2013 by slick999

[sqwatch]

For the most part, you will get a "P" and possibly passed over if you are not masters complete depending on the viewpoint of your WG/CC.

Completely inaccurate from my perspective

[Guest ThatGuy]

Completely inaccurate from my perspective

Say what needs to be said Sqwatch.

[Vprdrvr69]

For the most part, you will get a "P" and possibly passed over if you are not masters complete depending on the viewpoint of your WG/CC.

I have absolutely seen this. I PCSd and was a student when my PRF was written against good advice not to. Knowing the WG/CC and his hard-on for AADs, I was all but guaranteed a P if I was not AAD complete when the PRFs were written regardless of other criteria. I figured I would fare better as an unqualified student in a schoolhouse than as an EP under poor leadership. Got a DP as a student and finished the AAD before the board anyhow. If I would have not PCSd, I would have deployed a few more times, got a P, and not finished my AAD (because I was always deployed to non garden spots). This is the AF we live in gents- WTF!

[Gravedigger]

I had the "pleasure" of working the Major PRFs for our wing last year; our Wing Exec was conveniently at SOS. Our Wg/CC gave equal distinction to Masters and Bach+, and having no AAD was not an automatic P. Although, it turned out that the people with the weakest performance records overall also happened to be people without an AAD. There were several DPs given to Bach+ and one given to a guy with no AAD, because he had stellar reports.

The moral of this story is that this is not an Air Force-wide or selection board problem that most of you guys are complaining about. It is completely dependent on YOUR Senior Rater, at YOUR base. These guys are supposedly from your community and supposedly have similar experiences to you. If they choose to give you a P because you don't have an AAD, that is entirely their decision, not the Air Force's.

Now, I do understand that a lot of Wing King's have determined that the easiest way to rank people is by completely objective box checking, so that they don't actually have to think or know their people. That is a problem. But that needs to be addressed in your communities where it's happening, because it certainly isn't everywhere. There are school-selects without an AAD in other communities for crying out loud.

[ChiefSlapahoe]

I had the "pleasure" of working the Major PRFs for our wing last year; our Wing Exec was conveniently at SOS. Our Wg/CC gave equal distinction to Masters and Bach+, and having no AAD was not an automatic P. Although, it turned out that the people with the weakest performance records overall also happened to be people without an AAD. There were several DPs given to Bach+ and one given to a guy with no AAD, because he had stellar reports.

The moral of this story is that this is not an Air Force-wide or selection board problem that most of you guys are complaining about. It is completely dependent on YOUR Senior Rater, at YOUR base. These guys are supposedly from your community and supposedly have similar experiences to you. If they choose to give you a P because you don't have an AAD, that is entirely their decision, not the Air Force's.

Now, I do understand that a lot of Wing King's have determined that the easiest way to rank people is by completely objective box checking, so that they don't actually have to think or know their people. That is a problem. But that needs to be addressed in your communities where it's happening, because it certainly isn't everywhere. There are school-selects without an AAD in other communities for crying out loud.

This is exactly the problem: too many senior raters think that the AAD and other things are the discriminating factor. If that's what the AF leadership truly values then leave the system as is and make it clear to people before they enter the service knowing what to expect. Otherwise, said leadership should give guidance to wing leaders that AAD's aren't used (preferable) or as a last resort to distinguish between two people.

A clear list of expectations should be known for all to see and follow with commander input allowed for exceptions so people aren't blindsided. If it's done for racking and stacking people during formal training programs and accepted universally as okay (e.g. 20% academics, 30% job performance, 20% CC ranking, etc.) then why shouldn't our rack and stack for promotions be similar? My two cents.

Edited June 13, 2013 by ChiefSlapahoe

[Guest ThatGuy]

Here's the stats from the last LAF O-4 board. (AF-wide numbers are in red)

Of the 691 that had no AAD, 388 got a DP and 303 got a P. BL: You are more likely to get a DP without an AAD than a P, albeit not by much.

Of the 691 that had no AAD, 513 got promoted. BL: You are more likely to get promoted without an AAD than passed over. By a lot.

To dig a little farther, you can look at SOS in res vs. correspondence.......

Of those that went to shoe flag in res, 582 did not have an AAD. 368 of them got a DP and 214 got a P. BL: If you've gone to shoe flag in res you are more likely to get a DP than a P without having an AAD. Likewise, 467 of those without an AAD got promoted. 115 did not. BL: If you've gone to shoe flag in res your chances of being promoted without an AAD far outweigh your chances of being passed over.

If you don't go to shoe flag in res, then slick's statement finally becomes accurate. Of those dudes, 20 got a DP and 89 got a P. Of the 109 considered, only 46 got promoted. BL: If you don't go to SOS in res and don't have an AAD, your chances of getting a P and getting passed over are higher than getting a DP and promoted. (.....Does that surprise anyone?) .....also keep in mind that only 257 people were in that bucket versus the 2,289 people that the AF did send to shoe flag.

Most people don't understand (or maybe don't want to admit) that it's a 75% DP rate (1,919 DPs versus 627 Ps) and a 90% promotion opportunity (2,546 total considered and 2,287 selected). ....It's pretty good odds.

For sure, more and more people each year are falling into the AAD complete bucket (1,855 vs. 691 in 2012, 1,697 vs. 901 in 2011, 1633 vs. 1251 in 2010). It is obviously becoming more important to stay competitive. Maybe that trend will reverse, .....senior raters and promotion boards will have to collectively and consistently demonstrate that it's not so crucial and then eligible promotees will have to stop putting so much emphasis on it. Unfortunately it will take years. Many years, since the board only meets once a year (or not at all) and completing an AAD takes a couple years.

In the meantime, my point here is that guys keep pretending that you're absolutely doomed if you don't have AAD done but the numbers simply don't support that. Almost always, the senior rater has more DPs than he has eligibles with AAD complete. Likewise, the board needs to select more Major than they have people with AAD complete.

So you got a DP and got promoted but the AF is still completely ######ed and unfair. Nice. Sport bitching level = BaseOps.

Awesome post with unlimited facts!

[Champ Kind]

So you got a DP and got promoted but the AF is still completely fucked and unfair. Nice. Sport bitching level = BaseOps.

Good data with the rest of your post, but you lost me in the finale...

So, just because someone is doing relatively "well" in this system means they have to embrace it?

[General Condition]

General Condition, I can't get the quote function to work. I'm not naive enough to think I can reblue anyone here. I'm also not impressed with your authority to ask me to leave. You think we should take actions to help people but not the institution? False choice. You can do both, but you can't promote everyone. yada yada yada.

Liquid,

I’m laughing at the thought of me having any kind of authority on here. That being said, I should apologize for the misunderstanding – I wasn’t asking you to leave, it was poorly worded. My intent was to warn you that you’d be wasting your time trying to reblue anyone on here. But, I think you get that. Let’s not beat that horse.

I do believe that the people are more important than the institution. We’ve all run into some old guy at the BX who wants talk about “back in the day.” 99% of the time they talk about people they knew in the AF or some crazy mission or TDY. The recent leadership made a deliberate and conscious decision to sacrifice people for the sake of the institution. The newest airplane does you no good if there are no pilots to fly it. It also does no good to have 2^nd rate pilots flying. We are an Armed Service – we provide the service of free airspace to the American public. Instead, we seem to be in the business of producing proselytizers, soup kitchen volunteers, and an organization chock full of people with worthless masters degrees.

As for PME, I still say it’s worthless. But you are correct: if one doesn’t do it, then you have no right to complain about “the system.” As worthless as it is, it is easy to accomplish. I begrudgingly accept it as part of the military making you do dumb stuff. I hope guys like you can do something to at least make it worthwhile.

Lastly, I don’t have the answer as to how to fix our promotion system. But, the .pdf in this link is a very good start. It’s kind of a long read, but well worth it if you have the time . . .

http://www.airpower....ticle.asp?id=85

[sqwatch]

Say what needs to be said Sqwatch.

I had the "pleasure" of working the Major PRFs for our wing last year; our Wing Exec was conveniently at SOS. Our Wg/CC gave equal distinction to Masters and Bach+, and having no AAD was not an automatic P. Although, it turned out that the people with the weakest performance records overall also happened to be people without an AAD. There were several DPs given to Bach+ and one given to a guy with no AAD, because he had stellar reports.

The moral of this story is that this is not an Air Force-wide or selection board problem that most of you guys are complaining about. It is completely dependent on YOUR Senior Rater, at YOUR base. These guys are supposedly from your community and supposedly have similar experiences to you. If they choose to give you a P because you don't have an AAD, that is entirely their decision, not the Air Force's.

Now, I do understand that a lot of Wing King's have determined that the easiest way to rank people is by completely objective box checking, so that they don't actually have to think or know their people. That is a problem. But that needs to be addressed in your communities where it's happening, because it certainly isn't everywhere. There are school-selects without an AAD in other communities for crying out loud.

This ^

[stick]

Thanks, Hoss for providing context to the negativity train.

I don't have much for the calloused members with their opinions cemented, but I do have some advice for all the Lts and young Capts on this board.

I've heard a lot of career advice like "your boss's priorities should be your priorities" and "think like your boss's boss" but I never saw the light with those words. Maybe that $h1t works on staff somewhere or as a general's aide, but my pea brain could never seem to guess those answers.

What resonated with me was the idea that I should work for my peers and those below me. I could figure out what my bro needed or what was confusing the young Lt much easier than I could figure out my boss's next request, and I feel like I expended a lot of energy over the years for my peers. Saying yes to the panicked scheduler, editing anything people asked me to edit, agreeing to help out the over-tasked (fill in the blank) POC of whatever, etc. People appreciate honest help and what goes around comes around. One of my favorite quotes is Edison's "opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work."

As a Lt or young Capt, you have practically zero control over the opinions of your senior rater and marginal ability to attract the attention of your Gp/CC. If you attempt to directly influence your Sq/CC, you're kissing ass. If you take care of your job, the person who's got to do your job next and your peers as much as you can, at least you'll sleep better at night whether or not you get top-down recognition. I ended up with a school slot off this last Major's board, so this approach worked in my case. Good luck foraging your own path and don't be afraid of the roads less traveled.

Edited for grammar.

Edited June 14, 2013 by stick

[Dupe]

What @Stick said.

To follow that up, I think the senior leaders can see who's a container-checker and who is there to move the ball down the field ...at least the good ones can see that.

For some time, I've thought the AF should go to some form of 360 degree feedback vice just top looking down. I'm surprised the ASPJ article linked earlier didn't recommend it in some form.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Dupe

[brickhistory]

To follow that up, I think the senior leaders can see who's a container-checker and who is there to move the ball down the field ...at least the good ones can see that.

And yet essentially the same system is reborn itself every generation.

Why is that?

Like promotes like for the most part.

[zach braff]

As for what Stick said, a good boss' priorities should be having his/her people take care of each other and the mission. So if the LTs and Capts are taking care of each other and the mission - then they are making the boss's priorities their priorities.

[Liquid]

Here's the stats from the last LAF O-4 board. (AF-wide numbers are in red)

Of the 691 that had no AAD, 388 got a DP and 303 got a P. BL: You are more likely to get a DP without an AAD than a P, albeit not by much.

Of the 691 that had no AAD, 513 got promoted. BL: You are more likely to get promoted without an AAD than passed over. By a lot.

To dig a little farther, you can look at SOS in res vs. correspondence.......

Of those that went to shoe flag in res, 582 did not have an AAD. 368 of them got a DP and 214 got a P. BL: If you've gone to shoe flag in res you are more likely to get a DP than a P without having an AAD. Likewise, 467 of those without an AAD got promoted. 115 did not. BL: If you've gone to shoe flag in res your chances of being promoted without an AAD far outweigh your chances of being passed over.

If you don't go to shoe flag in res, then slick's statement finally becomes accurate. Of those dudes, 20 got a DP and 89 got a P. Of the 109 considered, only 46 got promoted. BL: If you don't go to SOS in res and don't have an AAD, your chances of getting a P and getting passed over are higher than getting a DP and promoted. (.....Does that surprise anyone?) .....also keep in mind that only 257 people were in that bucket versus the 2,289 people that the AF did send to shoe flag.

Most people don't understand (or maybe don't want to admit) that it's a 75% DP rate (1,919 DPs versus 627 Ps) and a 90% promotion opportunity (2,546 total considered and 2,287 selected). ....It's pretty good odds.

For sure, more and more people each year are falling into the AAD complete bucket (1,855 vs. 691 in 2012, 1,697 vs. 901 in 2011, 1633 vs. 1251 in 2010). It is obviously becoming more important to stay competitive. Maybe that trend will reverse, .....senior raters and promotion boards will have to collectively and consistently demonstrate that it's not so crucial and then eligible promotees will have to stop putting so much emphasis on it. Unfortunately it will take years. Many years, since the board only meets once a year (or not at all) and completing an AAD takes a couple years.

In the meantime, my point here is that guys keep pretending that you're absolutely doomed if you don't have AAD done but the numbers simply don't support that. Almost always, the senior rater has more DPs than he has eligibles with AAD complete. Likewise, the board needs to select more Major than they have people with AAD complete.

So you got a DP and got promoted but the AF is still completely ######ed and unfair. Nice. Sport bitching level = BaseOps.

From the same CY2012 Maj board:

1014 pilots eligible, 658 had AAD (65%).

1014 pilots eligible, 356 no AAD (35%), 75% (256/356) were promoted

356 pilots without AAD, 209 got DP, 100% promoted

356 pilots without AAD, 147 got P, 88 promoted (60%)

111 pilots passed over, 84 had no AAD

84/111 passed over pilots without AAD all 84 had Ps, 37/84 did not do SOS in res

Total officers 1926/2574 had AAD (75%)

Total officers passed over 287/2574 (11%), 82 had AAD (29%)

11% of pilots were passed over (111/1014). Most of those did not have AAD (76%).

Many of those passed over have an over inflated sense of how good they are and tend to blame no AAD, no Christmas Party planning and no exec time. The bottom 11% pilot records at a board are not strong. It sucks that they may be great dudes that fly well, lead well and get the mission done, but for the most part their raters, additional raters and senior raters didn't write good performance reports or PRFs on them. Blame the system or the senior rater, but the bottom line is when you rack and stack all records, the bottom 11% records really are the bottom 11%. The board gets that right. Letting passed over dudes with poker hands and beers pick the bottom 11% will still result in around 111 pilots wondering why they were passed over and questioning the system.

[Catbox]

...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not above bitching about the process. At the same time, dudes are just throwing out unsubstantiated rumors and drawing false conclusions based on their hatred for AAD.

...

Hoss, you are spot on...however we live in a time where all this is a reality:

--Navs and pilots not promoted to Captain (I have a hard time even typing this its so ridiculous) because they didn't have good enough paper to meet a board.

--IPs and evaluators not getting promoted to Major despite being deployed multiple times, being relative masters in the plane and having honed leadership skills in combat.

And in my view almost no one in a senior role is giving us any idea why the ###### things like this are happening so we have no choice but to speculate and thus (and mostly unintentionally) perpetuate rumors.

Big Blue (senior leaders) could put an end to this tomorrow by very simply cutting the bullshit and being and acting like the honorable people they all claim to be.

Edit: still new here.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Catbox

[pcola]

Same numbers...different take:

I think we can all agree that PME can be considered continuing ed for a professional officer, so it follows that it is a "must" for anyone wishing to continue to advance in the profession of arms. So, I will only consider the officers who have completed PME - the method of completion is irrelevant and will not be considered. Without breaking out "P" vs "DP," 1855 officers had obtained (note I didn't say "earned") an AAD prior to the board. Of those, 1774 were promoted - a 96% promotion rate of those with an AAD. On the other hand, 691 dedicated officers decided to focus on their primary duties and did not waste time obtaining a fraudulent and useless AAD. Of those 691, 513 were selected for promotion. A 74% promotion rate of those w/out an AAD.

Comparing apples to apples, the AF decided to promote 96% of officers with an AAD and only 74% of those without.

I'd wager that 0% of the AADs polled in these demographics actually provided any real, tangible benefit to the AF. OK, so maybe a handful of those AADs could potentially prove of some use to an AF Officer at some point in their career. In the interest of fairness, we'll call it 0.69% of those degrees will at some point provide any hint of "force development." Considering my take on the real value of the average AAD, is it not fair to say that the "system" is obviously placing promotion emphasis on a metric that has no bearing on the ability of the individual to perform at the next higher grade? And some of you argue that this system is working?

The stats are resoundingly clear. If you waste taxpayer money and use TA to obtain a useless, diploma-mill, box-check degree, you will be promoted. If you refuse to toe the line, you are wagering your career and there is a 1/4 chance you will be "let go." The "rock bottom line" (to quote one of my favorite AF party lines) is that the "system" is weak and corrupt, and real leadership has been replaced with a number of excel spreadsheets and a horde of pencil pushing paper bitches that refuse to expend the effort to get to know their people and rate them according to actual merit. The message is clear: "Your leadership ability and technical proficiency do not factor as long as you meet the metric and fall beyond the objective 'red line'."

And no, I'm not bitter, just another CGO looking into the fishbowl. I was one of the "368" in the quoted demographics.

[Tonka]

The stats are resoundingly clear. If you waste taxpayer money and use TA to obtain a useless, diploma-mill, box-check degree, you will be promoted. If you refuse to toe the line, you are wagering your career and there is a 1/4 chance you will be "let go."

Agreed... I would love to hear any plausible argument that demonstrates the reason WHY an AAD is such a high reflection of an officer's promotability... And why, if the AF REALLY thought it was that important, why haven't the opportunities for in-residence Masters/PhD degree increased dramatically over the last decade to reflect the AF's shift in priorty. Why hasn't the AF made any large scale movement to help encourage this requirements on its officers?

The AF finally decided that physical fitness was important, so they took steps (however misguided they might be) to see that everyone got fit (new gyms, more time off during the week, unit fitness time). The AF decided CRM/ORM was important, they implemented training, resources, jobs/positions to show how important it was... Beyond demanding every officer get one, what has the AF done to show how/why it is so important that it is the 2nd place statistic after PME to get promoted? Why don't we get time off during the week for AADs? Why don't we get a 3 day pass when we bring our boss a good report card (like those that get 100 on the PT test). Why don't we have a unit-AAD rep? Hell we have a unit voting-rep because voting is important to the AF! Why was the AF/Military so gung-ho to get rid of TA because it was a wasteful resource compared to flying aircraft? I'll somewhat concede OLMP, but I'd argue that it is just another opportunity to earn a masters and not a true shift in priorities.

BL, if the AF truly thought it was that important for its officers to get, the AF would take logical steps to help/encourage them to get one... i.e. 1) give the officer time weekly to accomplish it (I would argue a full day off every week that you are enrolled) 2) Increase the in-residence, paid opportunities 3) Allow members lateral moves out of and back on to AD to pursue degrees or temporary jobs in the civilian sector 4) force officers to start and/or complete a masters before entering AD. But the AF doesn't really think it is THAT important, they think of it only as a reflection of time management and dedication to service. The AF doesn't really believe it helps officers be better officers...If they did, they would put their $$ where their mouth is.

[Mark1]

Trying to justify the numbers as "not bad" even for no AAD is completely missing the point.

I separated prior to meeting the board, but by the numbers above, would have had a 0% chance of being promoted.

Spent half my life in the AF in combat. High hours in the aircraft, half of which were combat hours. Upgraded before my peers to instructor and evaluator. Several EQ Form 8s. Flt/CC box checked. FTU gig checked. OGV box checked. Strat'd in the squadron on early OPRs and in the group on later OPRs. Push lines all stellar with the full support of my ops squadron commander for a DP...but the Wing/CC would not issue me a DP (straight from the horses mouth) because of a couple of problems...

On principle, I refused to waste taxpayer money (or my money for that matter) on a basketweaving degree. Want me to get a Master's degree, Air Force? Great, I'd love to get one also, just give me the time off to do so and I'll come back with a legit degree, some actual growth from the educational experience, refreshed and ready to get back to work. No pay, no BAH, no BAS, no educational financial aid, no time in grade, nothing. Just give me the time to get it done and I'll do it. Not an option? Fine. I won't compromise my integrity by trying to find the easiest program majoring in Folklore at a diploma mill that's barely maintaining accreditation because the people that attend there don't actually want an education, they just want a worthless piece of paper without having to work for it. Then scope out the professors that especially don't give a shit, sign up for those classes with a buddy, and cheat my way through with min effort. All on the taxpayers dime.

There's still a chance if I go to SOS in res, you say? Great, I'll pack my bags. Oh, the Wing/CC won't send anybody who doesn't have it done by correspondence? Well, I won't compromise my integrity, or waste my time, by purchasing the 'brains' for the course off the internet, borrowing the 'answers' to the exam from a friend that just took the tests, study the answers for 10 min before each test, guess at the questions you don't recall from the gouge, and hope for a min passing score. If I fail, that's ok. It just gives me a free look at the test that I can retake next week. Then after that, they'll send me to waste even more taxpayer money by retaking a course that *should* be rendered obsolete by the correspondence course I just took. Either way I'll brain-dump everything .69 seconds after walking out the door.

So I've got a 0% chance of being promoted. The guy who CHEATED his way through a worthless correspondence course has a 29% chance. The guy who CHEATED through BOTH the correspondence course and his TUI basketweaving classes is guaranteed to get through.

I'm an officer. I thought you paid me to think, not just fall into the conga line that's headed for the cliff like an E-1 is expected to do. I saw something illogical and refused to participate while I did everything I could to kick ass at my job. For that I'm non-promotable. The others that compromised their integrity (it's only the first god damned core value) to get through the hoops set before them are auto-promoted to Major.

Would I have been the one to take the 0% number (w/o ADD or SOS) to 6% the following year? Doubtful, but it doesn't matter. I didn't want to belong to an organization that values what the AF values, whether that's as a 20yr Captain, or a Major+. So I took my services elsewhere. Makes precisely zero sense.

And for those that will say, "AAD/SOS isn't hard, dude. Just suck it up and get it done", you're also missing the point. Effort level required was never a concern.

[ThreeHoler]

There's still a chance if I go to SOS in res, you say? Great, I'll pack my bags. Oh, the Wing/CC won't send anybody who doesn't have it done by correspondence? Well, I won't compromise my integrity, or waste my time, by purchasing the 'brains' for the course off the internet, borrowing the 'answers' to the exam from a friend that just took the tests, study the answers for 10 min before each test, guess at the questions you don't recall from the gouge, and hope for a min passing score. If I fail, that's ok. It just gives me a free look at the test that I can retake next week. Then after that, they'll send me to waste even more taxpayer money by retaking a course that *should* be rendered obsolete by the correspondence course I just took. Either way I'll brain-dump everything .69 seconds after walking out the door.

This right here is the definition of a dude who is so dead set on railing against the system that he fucks himself.

SOS in correspondence is so fucking easy, you don't need the gouge. A retarded monkey could pass it by throwing his shit on a wall at the letters A through D and pick the answer that wasn't shit-covered. I did SOS without gouge. I did ACSC without gouge. I did SOS with time spent during my normal working day. I know many who did the same thing. And if the primary duties are done at work, I allow my people to work on their professional development at work, be it their SOS or AAD. I'm far from perfect, but I firmly believe that us "middle managers" are more of the problem with the system than the senior leaders.

Good luck, Mr martyr-dude. I hope you find a job where no one expects you work more hours than you bill on the time sheet.

[Tonka]

A retarded monkey could pass it by throwing his shit on a wall at the letters A through D and pick the answer that wasn't shit-covered.

Which makes it a perfect program to quantify, then qualify, someone to go to SOS in-res and then get promoted?

[Guest ThatGuy]

Trident aka TUI aka Touro (LMAO) did not lose their accreditation and it was reaffirmed in March 2013. In November 2012 I spoke with the head of the Western Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC) which is the accreditation agency for Trident. She said, "The Commission decision in February cannot be to terminate Trident’s accreditation. They will be considering whether to continue Trident on its ‘Probation’ status, or whether to move them back to Accredited (with no sanctions). Trident’s accreditation status last year was more dire, at the ‘Show Cause’ level. The university worked hard to address the issues in violation and was bumped up to ‘Probation’. They have continued to work on the issues, and the WASC review team visited Trident this week. The Commission’s findings in February will determine Trident’s new status. It would take at least a year to lose accreditation, and more likely multiple years, as each sanction status requires WASC visits."

I have an aunt who is a psychologist and I told her that I was getting my MBA from Trident. She told me that she has heard really good things about Trident although I was joking about having to write nothing but papers. I have learned not everyone gets an "A" on all their papers. I completed my last class the second week into the semester of 2013. I had civilians emailing me for help because they were having problems in the course. If everyone graduated with a 4.0 GPA I would call them a diploma mill. There are some people I know who have actually failed classes at Trident. Some would say they submitted blank papers and still received an "A." I can tell you I have uploaded the wrong assignment and the professor pointed it out to me. He did not just give me an "A" for submitting the wrong assignment.

The irony of all of this is that when I was sitting in SOS class I said to myself you didn't need me to come here in residence. On the web page called blackboard at SOS you can submit assignments just like you are attending Trident. Why do you need me to show my face and give presentations? Presentations nobody failed? I saw someone bomb a presentation and he passed. I mean it was freaking horrible to watch him stumble and trip over a simple presentation because he didn't practice.

Edited June 14, 2013 by slick999

[10percenttruth]

self-righteous words.

Get over yourself dude. SOS in correspondence is an integrity violation? GMAFB. Who ever said you had to cheat to do SOS? Not doing your PME as a professional officer is just stupid. You shot yourself in the foot & the only person to blame is the guy with misguided integrity issues staring at you in the mirror.

[Mark1]

SOS in correspondence is so ######ing easy, you don't need the gouge. A retarded monkey could pass it by throwing his shit on a wall at the letters A through D and pick the answer that wasn't shit-covered. I did SOS without gouge. I did ACSC without gouge. I did SOS with time spent during my normal working day.

Good luck, Mr martyr-dude. I hope you find a job where no one expects you work more hours than you bill on the time sheet.

That was kind of my entire point.

Just game the system, put in min effort, skirt the intent of the program, make sure to get nothing from it, return mediocre but passing scores and bingo, you're going to Maxwell so that you can exercise your remarkable ability to get things done without effort there. You know, integrity and excellence all balled into one. And certainly the best indicator of senior officer leadership ability I can think of.

And you're right, the "middle managers" are more of the problem because they've slowly on an individual basis tried to distinguish themselves (in meaningless ways) to promotion boards by jumping through illogical hoops. To the point that the hoop jumping is standard, and is no longer even distinguishing, just expected. I understand that given human behavior the kind of collective stance I'm about to talk about is impossible, somebody will always try to get a leg up on everybody else, but if the CGO core collectively shunned the AAD and SOS by correspondence requirement, selection to SOS in residence and promotion criteria would necessarily have to revert back to actual job performance. When you've got 0% who've completed an AAD, it's hard to flush out your entire force.

Extra idiocy for you. On a regular basis squadron leadership would come to me to double check that I hadn't completed SOS by correspondence without anybody noticing, because there had been a fallout from SOS in residence and Wing/Group needed a body to fill the hole. I was at the top of the list to go, whether by fallout or through the normal periodic rack&stack process, but the Wing/CC by policy would not send anybody who hadn't completed it by correspondence. Keeping in mind that there is no actual requirement for correspondence to be complete before residency (other MAJCOMs sent their guys without it routinely), does it make any sense to send a guy that is down the list, in lieu of a guy who would otherwise go first?

Let me make it clear that I didn't take a defiant stance in an effort to prove something by forcing the system to martyr me. I did my job...and well. Nothing more, nothing less. I knew what it would mean for me, and as I said, I wouldn't want to promote through a system that I couldn't believe in anyway. I knew for a long time coming that I would move along when my ADSC expired. Sadly that was prior to meeting the board because I would have been curious to see what would've happened.

And for the record, if I happened to be on a wage basis, you don't work more than you bill on your time sheet. If you're required to work more than planned for a typical week, you bill your time and are payed overtime for it. But I'm happily a salaried employee. I get my job done, no matter how many hours it takes to include overtime or weekends if necessary because I wouldn't be okay with myself collecting a paycheck for ostensibly performing a job that I didn't perform.

I was in the shop late into the night, or on weekends on a regular basis when I was AD. So were a lot of other guys. But you know what? There was a significant contingent of guys who you never saw around unless they were flying. They could fade into the background in a squadron that ran 24hr flying operations. Where's Jimmy, I haven't seen him in a while? Oh, he must be flying the late sortie tonight, or he must be in crew rest, or he must be TDY or on CTO. But his peer group knew better. Jimmy rarely volunteered for a flight or a less than ideal TDY. They knew because they had to pick up the slack and fly the Friday night line every week and take the aircraft to BFE for an exercise. This on top of setting the best example for his E's by not being present at work when they had to be and letting others get his work done for him. And guess what? Jimmy will be an O-4 in short order because he threw his shit against the wall and picked the answer that wasn't shit-covered for god and country.

Get over yourself dude. SOS in correspondence is an integrity violation? GMAFB. Who ever said you had to cheat to do SOS? Not doing your PME as a professional officer is just stupid. You shot yourself in the foot & the only person to blame is the guy with misguided integrity issues staring at you in the mirror.

Hit too close to home, man?

I'm not suggesting that everybody approaches things that way, but you know damn well that that is SOP for MOST guys that jump through the hoops.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Mark1