What happens if you drop out of/ Fail UPT?

[RANDOMDUDE13]

Sorry in advance for the weak google/forum searching. What happens if you drop out of/fail UPT? Do you stay in the Air Force and go onto a new career field, or are you kicked out of the Air Force? Sorry again if this has already been answered.

Edited July 6 by RANDOMDUDE13
Misspelling

[Boomer6]

Weak*

[RANDOMDUDE13]

30 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

Weak*

And there's one embarrassing moment for myself 🤦.

[Biff_T]

They turn you into a missileer in which you spend the remainder of your ADSC telling everyone you didn't want to be a pilot anyways.  And even though you think flying is lame, you could have flown fighters if you wanted to.   

[RANDOMDUDE13]

24 minutes ago, Biff_T said:

They turn you into a missileer in which you spend the remainder of your ADSC telling everyone you didn't want to be a pilot anyways.  And even though you think flying is lame, you could have flown fighters if you wanted to.   

I will then proceed to tell everyone I was meant for the Astronaut Corps haha. In all seriousness though, what actually does happen if a UPT student DORs or Attrites?

[Biff_T]

10 minutes ago, RANDOMDUDE13 said:

I will then proceed to tell everyone I was meant for the Astronaut Corps haha. In all seriousness though, what actually does happen if a UPT student DORs or Attrites?

It really depends on the needs of the AF.  Most dudes get a new AFSC (job) and finish out whatever commitment is left from your commissioning source. You won't incur the UPT ADSC unless you get your wings. 

 

[RANDOMDUDE13]

2 hours ago, Biff_T said:

It really depends on the needs of the AF.  Most dudes get a new AFSC (job) and finish out whatever commitment is left from your commissioning source. You won't incur the UPT ADSC unless you get your wings. 

 

My commissioning source would be, and only can be at this point in my life be OTS. I don't know how that would affect the requirements. 

 

I am obviously in no way planning on failing flight school, but if it were to occur, do those that fail out of UPT get to put in their job preference when getting a new AFSC, or is it where the Air Force decides without your preference and you happily oblige?

[reloder]

Seems like a reasonable question. If anyone is familiar with today's personnel procedures, why not give him an informed and courteous answer?

[FourFans]

There'll be a lot of dated info around here, but in general it depends on the circumstances of how you depart UPT.  If you DOR (request your way out) you likely have a better chance of getting the job you want vs if you get washed out.  I've known guys who DOR'd, got washed out, and even dudes that got FEB'd later in their careers and departed the flying world.  Some became JAGs, missileers, and acquisitions officers.  I would not go into UPT focused on what happens if you fail.  If you genuinely don't like it, then you can quit and the world won't come to and end.  If you try and hedge by quitting before you get washed out...well...don't do that.  You won't be in a good position to judge just how well or poorly you're doing.

Hang tough on this topic for a week or two and let those who are currently IPs in the training system chime in.  They have busy lives and can't always get to the page immediately, but they will show up.

Edited July 6 by FourFans

[RANDOMDUDE13]

29 minutes ago, FourFans said:

I would not go into UPT focused on what happens if you fail.

Thank you for the response and will do to holding for current IP responses! I am not going to go into UPT if given the chance with an attitude of if I fail then what will happen, I was just genuinely curious as to if for some reason, what is now a dream for me were to not work out, what would my future entail after. I would assume that if I was selected and made it through all of the steps to get in the door at UPT, that the USAF has some confidence in my success, and I intend on running with that unless told otherwise. 

[viper154]

3 minutes ago, RANDOMDUDE13 said:

Thank you for the response and will do to holding for current IP responses! I am not going to go into UPT if given the chance with an attitude of if I fail then what will happen, I was just genuinely curious as to if for some reason, what is now a dream for me were to not work out, what would my future entail after. I would assume that if I was selected and made it through all of the steps to get in the door at UPT, that the USAF has some confidence in my success, and I intend on running with that unless told otherwise. 

If you get kicked out for getting in trouble you probably going to get kicked out of the military.
 

A lot goes on behind the scenes if you fail out or DOR. One of the things that can make a difference is recommendations from your flight/cc, squadron cc, that get funneled up to the GP/CC  and Wing CC. I’ve seen good dudes and dudettes that couldn’t quite figure out certain things get sent to CSO or RPA school, some that competed to go on to things like Special Tactics, OSI, and other jobs requiring interviews and try outs. They all wanted it and had CC recommendations to try to do those things. Vast majority looking for more “normal” AFCS really come down to needs of the Air Force. Some folks got what they wanted, some were scanning IDs at the gate. 

I believe OTS comes with a 4 year commitment. Realistic timeline, by the time you get to Pilot training, potentially wash out, all the paperwork to process, get RIPs and orders for another assignment, you are probably going to be coming up on that 4 year commitment.  

[disgruntledemployee]

Let me share with the OP, if you are gonna DOR because you know you will kill yourself/others because you suck at it, do it.  No shame in calling it.  You will survive.

PS. A lot of us almost killed ourselves piloting, but lived to see another day.

If you're getting eliminated by UPT because you suck at it, sorry but it happens.  You will survive.

If you DOR because of other influences, DON'T DO IT.  I know a dude that quit because of his now ex-wife.  Huge regrets for quitting.  If you can hack the mish of piloting, carry on.  The nags in your ears will go away, one way or another.  Either they love you unconditionally, or they don't.

Good luck

[Biff_T]

3 hours ago, FourFans said:

Hang tough on this topic for a week or two and let those who are currently IPs in the training system chime in. 

This!

[HuggyU2]

So... Random13...

I see you also posed this exact question on the Navy's forum. 

You've received good answers to your questions, and now I'd like to know where YOU are in the commissioning process, and which Service you are seriously looking at. 

What's your story?

[RANDOMDUDE13]

1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said:

So... Random13...

I see you also posed this exact question on the Navy's forum. 

You've received good answers to your questions, and now I'd like to know where YOU are in the commissioning process, and which Service you are seriously looking at. 

What's your story?

Huggy,

 

I just graduated with my undergrad degree back in the beginning of June. My preference is to serve in the Air Force as a pilot (absolutely zero shade to Naval Aviators). I intend on getting my PPL to hopefully have a shot at an ANG/AFR slot, and if that doesn't work out then the AD USAF is my next preference followed by the Navy. I have zero preference as to what I want to fly, and would be happy flying anything provided I get to serve while doing it. For reference I have only began studying for the AFOQT and ASTB respectively so I am very early in the process.

[JeremiahWeed]

15 hours ago, viper154 said:

 believe OTS comes with a 4 year commitment. Realistic timeline, by the time you get to Pilot training, potentially wash out, all the paperwork to process, get RIPs and orders for another assignment, you are probably going to be coming up on that 4 year commitment.  

Are you sure about this? I know an Academy grad or ROTC candidate already has an ADSC due to the money spent on their education. But why would someone who shows up and signs on the line to go to OTS have any commitment at that point? All they’ve done is 90 days of basic training, gotten maybe a couple of airline tickets and attempted UPT. A ROTC commission with likely hundreds of thousands of dollars paid to a college gives that new officer a four year commitment prior to them getting their wings of course. It seems unlikely that an OTS candidate would have a similar ADSC with a fraction of the money spent on them so far.  I would think if they were so inclined that would be the end of their USAF career.

Edited July 7 by JeremiahWeed

[KC46Driver]

Like just about everything in the world of military aviation - it depends.

It depends on the circumstances of your departure. Did you resign or did you get kicked out? Did you get kicked out because of inability to perform, or because you were being a shitbag? Better circumstances have better outcomes. 

There's also the needs of the Air Force. A decade ago they were sending everyone to missiles. I don't know what the needs of the Air Force look like now. There's also if you have a specialized skillset. If you have an engineering or medical degree there's a good chance you're going to do that. 

[viper154]

4 hours ago, JeremiahWeed said:

Are you sure about this? I know an Academy grad or ROTC candidate already has an ADSC due to the money spent on their education. But why would someone who shows up and signs on the line to go to OTS have any commitment at that point? All they’ve done is 90 days of basic training, gotten maybe a couple of airline tickets and attempted UPT. A ROTC commission with likely hundreds of thousands of dollars paid to a college gives that new officer a four year commitment prior to them getting their wings of course. It seems unlikely that an OTS candidate would have a similar ADSC with a fraction of the money spent on them so far.  I would think if they were so inclined that would be the end of their USAF career.

I’m not 100%, wasn’t an OTS grad. Fairly sure you incur a 4 year commitment with your commission regardless of source, otherwise it would be pretty easy for OTS grads to say F it, I’m out and just quit if they decide they don’t like their job/tech school. AF all about getting their pound of flesh, they ain’t going waste time/money sending people to OTS to have them quit a couple months later. It’s fairly common to not get a scholarship through ROTC, I didn’t, although I went through in the height of the sequester years, so maybe that’s changed. 

[HuggyU2]

T-6 washout rate is only about 10% according to a friend in that world. 
He said it is uncommon to washout for airsickness since they have the B Chair workups pretty well perfected. 

[raimius]

Yeah, low UPT washout rates is true.  If you want it and study for it, they'll probably find a way to get you through.

If you do washout or DOR, it depends on the style of your leaving and what the AF needs at the time.  If you just quiet quit (stop studying, etc), your IPs will probably hate working with you and give you zero support...sucks to suck.

If you try hard, but just can't make it work (rare), you'll probably get good recommendations for your next AFGSC.  

If you DOR for a well thought through reason, you'll probably get support.  If you DOR a month into flying because it's "too hard" and "too much work"...yeah, IPs aren't going to have sympathy.

[contraildash]

10 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

T-6 washout rate is only about 10% according to a friend in that world. 
He said it is uncommon to washout for airsickness since they have the B Chair workups pretty well perfected. 

I've seen 10% +/- a few points depending on the class but seems to be trending higher. 

OP, I've been part of about a dozen commander reviews now (the process for removing someone from UPT). Attitude is probably the biggest discriminator for what your follow-on will be. If you gave it your all, with a good attitude, but just didn't have the hands....you tend to get helped out. Huge douch-nozzle blaming everyone else? Not so much.

[yzl337]

Important note, if you wash out, you could be reclassed to CSO, RPA pilot, or ABM. If you drop out voluntarily, rated service (any flying status) is off the table for future jobs. Once you quit UPT, there are no second chances at flying. 

[RANDOMDUDE13]

8 minutes ago, yzl337 said:

Important note, if you wash out, you could be reclassed to CSO, RPA pilot, or ABM. If you drop out voluntarily, rated service (any flying status) is off the table for future jobs. Once you quit UPT, there are no second chances at flying. 

This comes as a pleasant surprise that flying is still potentially on the table IF failing UPT occurs. I thought you had 1 chance at a USAF flying career regardless of seat, and if you failed, game over.

Edited Wednesday at 03:33 AM by RANDOMDUDE13
Poor punctuation

[raimius]

CSO or RPA is a possibility for washouts who have a good attitude and work ethic, but just didn't have the hands. 

...based on the last year or so of local examples...