U.S. Considers Up To 72 New F-15s Or F-16s

[precontact]

https://aviationweek.com/defense/us-considers-72-new-f-15s-or-f-16s?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20151120_AW-05_723&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_2&utm_rid=CPEN1000000222965&utm_campaign=4309&utm_medium=email&elq2=e5153b4a2cf242409c8803e7790d1554

U.S. Considers Up To 72 New F-15s Or F-16s

Nov 19, 2015Bill Sweetman  | Aerospace Daily & Defense Report 

• • EMAIL
• INSHARE

COMMENTS 9

F-15: Boeing

 

LONDON — The U.S. Air Force may solicit bids for 72 new Boeing F-15s, Lockheed Martin F-16s or even Boeing F/A-18E/Fs as budget issues put planned production rates for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter out of reach, according to senior service and industry officials at the Defense IQ International Fighter Conference here.

F-15s and F-16s are now expected to serve until 2045, when an all-new aircraft will be ready, and plans to modernize F-16s with active electronically scanned array radars and other improvements are being revived.

The conference was run under Chatham House rules that prohibit identifying specific speakers.

The U.S. Air Force “is struggling to afford 48 F-35s a year” for the first years of full-rate production, a senior officer says. The program of record shows the service buying 60 aircraft in 2020, rising to 80 per year soon after that. Consequently, F-15s and F-16s will serve longer and will outnumber F-35s and F-22s through the late 2020s.

The service is looking at a three-tier force, with 300 F-16s and some F-15s being modernized “to augment the F-35 and F-22 in a high-end fight” and others assigned to low-end operations, while the contemplated 72-aircraft buy (an Air Force wing) would sustain force numbers and provide additional modern aircraft. Although “the last time we looked, this was more expensive than buying F-35s in bulk,” the senior leader says, the issue is being re-examined.

An industry official confirms the Air Force has asked for pricing data on new F-15s along with life-extension and upgrade options, including fitting in-service aircraft with new wings and rebuilt fuselages. The U.S. Air Force activity parallels U.S. Navy fleet planning; the Navy, likewise, is considering reductions in the planned F-35C production rate to fund life-extension efforts for the Super Hornet.

The production phase of the Combat Avionics Program Extension Suite (Capes) upgrade for the U.S. Air Force F-16 force was canceled under the fiscal 2015 budget, but development of its major elements is continuing for Taiwan, with South Korea and Singapore expected to join the project. The U.S. Air Force plans to seek money to upgrade its fleet in small batches, according to the service leader.

Also under consideration is a plan to augment U.S. Air Force electronic attack capabilities by fitting some F-15Es with a version of the Raytheon Next Generation Jammer pod, the Air Force leader said.

[brabus]

Won't happen.

[Stitch]

Won't happen.

Oh it’ll happen, but this is the government we’re talking about.  Deals will be made, congressional representatives can boast they’re supporting their districts while being tough on the bad guys.  They’ll buy 72 or so zero-time airframes with all the latest electronic goodies.  The crews will pick them up fresh off the shelf at the factory and fly em’ straight to the boneyard at DM, not unlike the C-27 deal not too long ago.  Or just bulldoze em’ like the T-3 fleet then get .14 cents a pound for the scrap and funnel that money into the F-35 budget.

[brabus]

DOD: "Stitch, can we pay you $6.9 billion dollars to be the middle man who brokers this deal?  Also, it's cool if post-contract signing you fuck us over and require millions more to fix a contract breach you're 100% responsible for.  Also, have you by chance seen the S&M Man, we're kind of into that sort of thing."

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Jee-sus!  This idea was kicked around YEARS ago when the F-22 was on the edge of the rocks.  Now that the F-35 is on the rocks, past the rocks, and up the beach they revive the same idea.  It's about time!  The F-15s and F-16s that are currently being produced are vastly superior to the ones we bought back in the day, and the factory integration of a lot of current technology can't be ignored.  Even some of the stuff that has been grafted onto our fleet would probably function a lot better if it came factory installed.  With Canada bailing out of the F-35 entirely I'm sure the Air Force is looking at the reality of the F-35 never coming to fruition, or at least never being what it was sold as.  Curious-- they didn't seem to mention buying new A-10s.....

[Lawman]

. Curious-- they didn't seem to mention buying new A-10s.....

That's because no factory or tooling to build A-10s exist. Fairchild didn't just stop building the plane, they stopped being a company. Nor does the engineering expertise that built her since most of them are retired/living in nursing homes/dead at this point.

You would literally need to reverse engineer and then design a production line to produce more plans since there isn't a room full of filing cabinets stuffed with blueprints and plans.

[Clark Griswold]

You would literally need to reverse engineer and then design a production line to produce more plans since there isn't a room full of filing cabinets stuffed with blueprints and plans.

Call China, this is normal ops for them.

[StoleIt]

An F-16E or an F-15SA costs something like 80-90% as much as an F-35 does...why does this make sense?

Sounds like too many people are listening to Sprey...

[Longhorn15]

Don't confuse the FMS price with a USAF price. Ours is significantly cheaper. There are a ton of extras built into FMS sales.

Cost isn't just about purchase price. LO MX comes with a hefty price tag.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Clark Griswold]

This seemed related to the original article this thread was started on, article on improvements to the SAAB Gripen's NG radar and really the rise of the 4.75+ gen fighter.

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/saabs-gripen-ng-fighter-has-an-awesome-way-to-make-its-1743963539

We just may not be able to afford an 5th gen fighter fleet but a good mix of 5th and 4th+ gen fighters may fit the budget.

[Magellan]

The Air Force just needs to come to grips with the fact that our adversary's can develop sensors capable of detecting just about anything that has mass, emits electrons, reflects visible light, or has an IR signature faster than we can weaponize systems that are invisible to their sensors.  A fighter aircraft based arms race may not be the best defense strategy for the pacific, but ACC and the people holding the purse strings will never accept that answer.

Maybe just maybe we need to look at ways other than fighters to kick the door down before conducting full scale air operations.  We overplayed the stealth card these last few decades and China and Russia are fully prepared to counter that threat so now we need a new ace up our sleeve.

[sqwatch]

The Air Force just needs to come to grips with the fact that our adversary's can develop sensors capable of detecting just about anything that has mass, emits electrons, reflects visible light, or has an IR signature faster than we can weaponize systems that are invisible to their sensors.  A fighter aircraft based arms race may not be the best defense strategy for the pacific, but ACC and the people holding the purse strings will never accept that answer.

Maybe just maybe we need to look at ways other than fighters to kick the door down before conducting full scale air operations.  We overplayed the stealth card these last few decades and China and Russia are fully prepared to counter that threat so now we need a new ace up our sleeve.

Are you suggesting an army of droids?

[Clark Griswold]

Maybe just maybe we need to look at ways other than fighters to kick the door down before conducting full scale air operations.  We overplayed the stealth card these last few decades and China and Russia are fully prepared to counter that threat so now we need a new ace up our sleeve.

20 lb. brains are working on it and there are already some out of the container ideas being tested probably soon to be fielded.

and the marketing video...

Still I see your point, for whatever reason the USAF has all the chips on stealth, hopefully it keeps winning.  Still some insurance on that bet like our own Growlers or ideally the never realized F-15G Wild Weasel as the sensors get better but as the Navy is now "revalidating" the number of F-35C's they are looking at buying, this may be a toe in the water by the USAF to see if asking about buying fewer F-35As and buying some 4th+ Gen will pass with Congress.  Not holding breath though.  

[brabus]

Maybe just maybe we need to look at ways other than fighters to kick the door down before conducting full scale air operations.

The DOD is WELL ahead of you on that one.  Guys, remember, stealth is the flashy word that gets thrown around in the news, facebook 5th gen bashing, etc.  People much smarter than you and I have thought about and developed solutions regarding problem sets like this before you even realized the F-35 was a thing.  It's not all about stealth, and dudes on the internet are not the first ones to think of that mind blowing idea.

[Marco]