FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[Mountain]

FFLS, when did you submit?

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Eligibility verified 31 Jan, CC coord complete 3 Feb. No movement since.

[Mountain]

Yeah, seems like you should have at least gone to "hold batch processing" by now. That said, I bet the number of people who applied in the first two weeks the window was open was pretty significant. It might just be that you're in another batch.

[Fedupafwife]

From CMSAF Cody...

It looks like all of the talk about 70,000 plus applying is a load of crap.

According to Cody they haven't had enough people apply.

The following is from a q&a on CMSAF Cody's Facebook page.

Thanks for the question, Adam. The numbers are consistent with what we've seen in the past with these programs. We're still short of where we need to be. The pause is tied to pending force structure decisions, not to the number of volunteers we've received so far. We're in a dynamic environment with a lot of moving pieces right now, and we need to evaluate the programs so we can make the best decisions to meet future force structure requirements. Once we know what force structure changes are coming, we'll adjust as necessary and unpause the force management programs. v/r jac

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I submitted at the beginning of day 3 and it took the full 10 business days for the eligibility check. I think the flood gates opened. I love how everyone was surprised by the number of apps. "Record retention"

[MSCguy]

That record retention could be driven because everyone knows the AF throws around VSP every three years-why get out for free when you can get paid for it a couple years later?

[Fiver]

I don't think Big Blue is going to let pilots VSP and probably not a lot of TERAs. We are transferring a ton of planes to the Reserves and Guard. I think they are going to open up the ADSCs to allow/encourage pilots to take the Palace Chase option--not VSP/TERA. Pilots are too valuable. Regardless of the sunk costs of pilot training, we can train pilots in a short time span to be MSG officers. We can't train MSG officers to fill the Reserve/Guard pilot positions that are opening up when we move planes to the Reserves. Read the Force Structure articles and FY15 PB out there. MQ1/9s replacing U-2s and moving to the guard. F-16s moving to A-10 Reserve bases, tankers doing the same, C-130Js, etc. all moving to the Reserve/Guard. All the publicity about Total Force and increasing the role/responsibility of the Reserve/Guard. We can't let pilots go, we HAVE to let pilots go to the Reserve/Guard. I don't think the current PSDMs allow pilots to go Palace Chase if they have an ADSC, I could be wrong as I usually am.

We have to let folks out by 1 Oct to afford all of the Force Structure movement and large acquisition programs in FY15 but our hands are tied. The leadership keeps saying it, without saying it. That's what Big Blue calls transparency. It would take a pair of nuts to explicitly say it and stand by what you say, and Billy Mitchell is long gone.

If you hear the lawyers are holding up this program, it's because the FY14NDAA that came out only allows us to cut 2K people. That is a far cry from the supposedly 25K we plan to cut over the next 5 years. We have to ask for permission from Congress, OSD and CJSC to go below the FY14NDAA level. Plus, there is USC10 which says you can only get rid of a certain percent of officers based on what the FY14NDAA authorizes. Therefore, we wouldn't be able to get rid of as many people as we want to this year. We are better off waiting until next year to see what next year's FY15NDAA authorizes our end strength (hence the RIF delay). So, when you hear leadership say they are trying to designate who has authority, they are trying to clear these things up. In addition to that, there are a lot of people with ADSCs that are not waiverable based on the current PSDMs , therefore those people are eligible for the RIF but not VSP/TERA. That greatly reduces the amount of people that can apply and voids the statement that they will maximize voluntary applications before doing the involuntary measures. They have to open up the ADSCs, I just don't think many pilots will be allowed to go.

I think they are trying to see how many people and which people they should let go this year because they are limited by the FY14NDAA. Hopefully, the approval they get allows them to process all of the voluntary applications but who really knows how many applications they received. I bet they slow roll this program. That's why some TERAs with 19 are approved and nothing else. They are going to chip away at the 2K-3K people that we are allowed to reduce.

It is a complicated problem that has changed since the Force Management announcement with the FY14 NDAA coming out and it is tough to blame Welsch and Cox (who I have heard are Dudes) for not being able to predict what Congress would publish. Plus, once real lawyers (not JA) get involved nothing good can happen. That's a shot at JA, but I am sure they have been involved this whole time and never saw this coming. It is NOT tough to blame leadership for the lack of communication and lack of accountability. It's the 21st century. Tweet some sh**, make a Facebook page, make daily (not bi-monthly) posts on MyPers/vMPF. You might even get valuable feedback from the peasants you are trying to get rid of; however, you might be held accountable too and that is something we can't seem to get right in the AF.

In the end, these dudes can't and won't get fired. Deadlines spur action and they control the deadline. There is little to no incentive for them to get it right the first time, any other belief is romantic.

Hopefully these dudes grow a pair and let us know what's up. It's really not that hard to communicate. I have cancelled 2 interviews, my bosses hate me, and I haven't done anything productive at work in 6 weeks; unless you call checking MyPers, BO, and vMPF every 10-15 minutes productive. Go to church, hug your families, and tell them you're sorry for putting them through this emotional rollercoaster. Good luck.

[Catbox]

Hopefully these dudes grow a pair and let us know what's up. It's really not that hard to communicate. I have cancelled 2 interviews, my bosses hate me, and I haven't done anything productive at work in 6 weeks; unless you call checking MyPers, BO, and vMPF every 10-15 minutes productive. Go to church, hug your families, and tell them you're sorry for putting them through this emotional rollercoaster. Good luck.

I wonder how many millions of dollars in man hours has been wasted by the way this program has been rolled out. I know at least 10 O-4s (myself included) making 100k+ a year who have done exactly what you mentioned above for more than six weeks now.

[North48]

^^ Well said Fiver on the lack of communication from HAF & AFPC. The deafening silence is what angers me most. I wonder how much productivity we've lost at work while we all stare at the wall, contemplate our futures and check Vmpf & mypers every five minutes.

On another note, folks with positive TERA movement seem to be noticing they're 1405 dates are changing, on their CDB (Vmpf) page.

1405 Date Explanation: the date used to determine the multiplier for figuring a member's retired pay. The 1405 is usually computed upon retirement. HQ AFPC is responsible for computing and updating the 1405 date into the Personnel Data System. (summarized)

[Torch25]

Hopefully these dudes grow a pair and let us know what's up. It's really not that hard to communicate. I have cancelled 2 interviews, my bosses hate me, and I haven't done anything productive at work in 6 weeks; unless you call checking MyPers, BO, and vMPF every 10-15 minutes productive. Go to church, hug your families, and tell them you're sorry for putting them through this emotional rollercoaster. Good luck.

Amen. We've put our cards on the table. Time for leadership to step up and show their hand. I know I personally really appreciated the 'Senior Leaders Challenge Airman to Reaffirm Committment to Core Values" message that was shotgunned to AF all today. Smackdown from on high! Yes, another shot of kool-aide will make it all better. Sounds like CMSAF will try to calm the waters Friday with his webcast all-call. Fustrating.

[chim richalds]

I get so tired of hearing how we can't let pilots go, tell that to any 11M farmed out to ACC/AFSOC.

[BamaC-21]

I don't think Big Blue is going to let pilots VSP and probably not a lot of TERAs. We are transferring a ton of planes to the Reserves and Guard. I think they are going to open up the ADSCs to allow/encourage pilots to take the Palace Chase option--not VSP/TERA. Pilots are too valuable. Regardless of the sunk costs of pilot training, we can train pilots in a short time span to be MSG officers. We can't train MSG officers to fill the Reserve/Guard pilot positions that are opening up when we move planes to the Reserves. Read the Force Structure articles and FY15 PB out there. MQ1/9s replacing U-2s and moving to the guard. F-16s moving to A-10 Reserve bases, tankers doing the same, C-130Js, etc. all moving to the Reserve/Guard. All the publicity about Total Force and increasing the role/responsibility of the Reserve/Guard. We can't let pilots go, we HAVE to let pilots go to the Reserve/Guard. I don't think the current PSDMs allow pilots to go Palace Chase if they have an ADSC, I could be wrong as I usually am.

We have to let folks out by 1 Oct to afford all of the Force Structure movement and large acquisition programs in FY15 but our hands are tied. The leadership keeps saying it, without saying it. That's what Big Blue calls transparency. It would take a pair of nuts to explicitly say it and stand by what you say, and Billy Mitchell is long gone.

If you hear the lawyers are holding up this program, it's because the FY14NDAA that came out only allows us to cut 2K people. That is a far cry from the supposedly 25K we plan to cut over the next 5 years. We have to ask for permission from Congress, OSD and CJSC to go below the FY14NDAA level. Plus, there is USC10 which says you can only get rid of a certain percent of officers based on what the FY14NDAA authorizes. Therefore, we wouldn't be able to get rid of as many people as we want to this year. We are better off waiting until next year to see what next year's FY15NDAA authorizes our end strength (hence the RIF delay). So, when you hear leadership say they are trying to designate who has authority, they are trying to clear these things up. In addition to that, there are a lot of people with ADSCs that are not waiverable based on the current PSDMs , therefore those people are eligible for the RIF but not VSP/TERA. That greatly reduces the amount of people that can apply and voids the statement that they will maximize voluntary applications before doing the involuntary measures. They have to open up the ADSCs, I just don't think many pilots will be allowed to go.

I think they are trying to see how many people and which people they should let go this year because they are limited by the FY14NDAA. Hopefully, the approval they get allows them to process all of the voluntary applications but who really knows how many applications they received. I bet they slow roll this program. That's why some TERAs with 19 are approved and nothing else. They are going to chip away at the 2K-3K people that we are allowed to reduce.

It is a complicated problem that has changed since the Force Management announcement with the FY14 NDAA coming out and it is tough to blame Welsch and Cox (who I have heard are Dudes) for not being able to predict what Congress would publish. Plus, once real lawyers (not JA) get involved nothing good can happen. That's a shot at JA, but I am sure they have been involved this whole time and never saw this coming. It is NOT tough to blame leadership for the lack of communication and lack of accountability. It's the 21st century. Tweet some sh**, make a Facebook page, make daily (not bi-monthly) posts on MyPers/vMPF. You might even get valuable feedback from the peasants you are trying to get rid of; however, you might be held accountable too and that is something we can't seem to get right in the AF.

In the end, these dudes can't and won't get fired. Deadlines spur action and they control the deadline. There is little to no incentive for them to get it right the first time, any other belief is romantic.

Hopefully these dudes grow a pair and let us know what's up. It's really not that hard to communicate. I have cancelled 2 interviews, my bosses hate me, and I haven't done anything productive at work in 6 weeks; unless you call checking MyPers, BO, and vMPF every 10-15 minutes productive. Go to church, hug your families, and tell them you're sorry for putting them through this emotional rollercoaster. Good luck.

If any of this is based is fact, you win for best first post. I'm pretty sure mine was a cat poster.

[Duck]

Amen. We've put our cards on the table. Time for leadership to step up and show their hand. I know I personally really appreciated the 'Senior Leaders Challenge Airman to Reaffirm Committment to Core Values" message that was shotgunned to AF all today. Smackdown from on high! Yes, another shot of kool-aide will make it all better. Sounds like CMSAF will try to calm the waters Friday with his webcast all-call. Fustrating.

Pissed me off too. How about they re-confirm their values. Most of us never lost it! Edited March 14, 2014 by Duck

[Guest]

Amen. We've put our cards on the table. Time for leadership to step up and show their hand. I know I personally really appreciated the 'Senior Leaders Challenge Airman to Reaffirm Committment to Core Values" message that was shotgunned to AF all today. Smackdown from on high! Yes, another shot of kool-aide will make it all better. Sounds like CMSAF will try to calm the waters Friday with his webcast all-call. Fustrating.

I believe that kool aid email was pushed because the results of the Malmstrom cheating investigation are about to be released. USECAF Fanning had a press release about it the other day.

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk

[HU&W]

I get so tired of hearing how we can't let pilots go, tell that to any 11M farmed out to ACC/AFSOC.

Farming out/repurposing to another pilot position ≠ letting go

[Rusty Pipes]

From CMSAF Cody...

It looks like all of the talk about 70,000 plus applying is a load of crap.

According to Cody they haven't had enough people apply.

The following is from a q&a on CMSAF Cody's Facebook page.

Thanks for the question, Adam. The numbers are consistent with what we've seen in the past with these programs. We're still short of where we need to be. The pause is tied to pending force structure decisions, not to the number of volunteers we've received so far. We're in a dynamic environment with a lot of moving pieces right now, and we need to evaluate the programs so we can make the best decisions to meet future force structure requirements. Once we know what force structure changes are coming, we'll adjust as necessary and unpause the force management programs. v/r jac

Translation...

"All of the complete shit bag leeches that we were hoping would apply haven't because they are perfectly happy sucking on the teet of Uncle Sugar; unfortunately we fire wall 5'd all of them since their first EPR and for some unknown reason we have been telling all of them all they were all "warriors" who were just as important to the fight sitting in their cubical as those actually fighting these wars... so if we try to kick them out for poor performance they will all have a great IG complaint. I mean seriously... we've been giving half of these clowns Bronze Stars for 179s to the Deid as finance troops; so we'll probably lose that fight. So as it stands, what we have for applicants for VSP and TERA right now is only 9,999 of the 10,000 pilots in the Air Force... from my understanding the only pilot who hasn't applied is some guy named Butters; apparently he doesn't believe these programs are real."

[chim richalds]

Farming out/repurposing to another pilot position ≠ letting go

sure it does, our functional says they would take us back but theres no trng slots open. Some of our programs will cease to exist in 7 months and they have no clue where they are putting everybody.

[Rusty Pipes]

Ha... a "dislike" from Butters! Come on, that was some funny shit!!!

[MooseAg03]

sure it does, our functional says they would take us back but theres no trng slots open. Some of our programs will cease to exist in 7 months and they have no clue where they are putting everybody.

And they can train up an 18x guy to take my slot, he would only incur a 6 year commitment. We're getting double screwed because we signed a 10 year ADSC to FLY, and now the AF can keep us here as long as they want not flying. I love going to work everyday with guys who do the same exact job but have a 40% shorter commitment.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chida]

That statement from Cody is probably not the (whole) truth. The CSAF came to Little Rock during the previous VSP/RIF debacle and pretty much said the same thing. "We have to have a RIF because not enough people applied for VSP" and later "We didn't lie. The truth just changed." That was Schwartz, btw. I don't know why these guys in DC feel like they need to be sneaky.

[ElLoco]

That statement from Cody is probably not the (whole) truth. The CSAF came to Little Rock during the previous VSP/RIF debacle and pretty much said the same thing. "We have to have a RIF because not enough people applied for VSP" and later "We didn't lie. The truth just changed." That was Schwartz, btw. I don't know why these guys in DC feel like they need to be sneaky.

Schwartz can eat a dick.

[lossofclocklossofdata]

And they can train up an 18x guy to take my slot, he would only incur a 6 year commitment. We're getting double screwed because we signed a 10 year ADSC to FLY, and now the AF can keep us here as long as they want not flying. I love going to work everyday with guys who do the same exact job but have a 40% shorter commitment.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Two.

Edited March 14, 2014 by lossofclocklossofdata

[FUSEPLUG]

Wow. Another week gone by with promises of further information or movement and all we get is an AF.mil article telling us shit we already knew. Apparently A1 was able to distract Welsh further after his alleged phone call last week. Complete loss of confidence in leadership on my end.

ETA: Not to mention the thoughtful reminder about our Core Values... again. Insulting.

Edited March 14, 2014 by FUSEPLUG

[Guest ThatGuy]

From CMSAF Cody...

It looks like all of the talk about 70,000 plus applying is a load of crap.

According to Cody they haven't had enough people apply.

The following is from a q&a on CMSAF Cody's Facebook page.

Thanks for the question, Adam. The numbers are consistent with what we've seen in the past with these programs. We're still short of where we need to be. The pause is tied to pending force structure decisions, not to the number of volunteers we've received so far. We're in a dynamic environment with a lot of moving pieces right now, and we need to evaluate the programs so we can make the best decisions to meet future force structure requirements. Once we know what force structure changes are coming, we'll adjust as necessary and unpause the force management programs. v/r jac

Coming from the same individual who kept telling everyone you can't wear the best running shoes on the market because they are brightly colored and not in accordance with the AFI. Sir, have you walked into an athletic shoe store lately to see what colors shoe manufacturers are only producing? Or have you gone into the BX to see that all of their running shoes are brightly colored as well? Really? Yet, the AFI got updated in January to permit brightly colored sneakers and the Chief had no clue it was going to happen.

Anyway, my CC believes the number of applicants was overwhelming for the programs to help downsize the force. AFPC probably hired the Obamacare website contractors and the total number of applicants starts over at every 10,000. Oops it was just a glitch. So take things coming from the top with a grain of salt gentlemen. Grab some popcorn or crunch n' munch and strap in for the ride or dildo, whichever you prefer.

[North48]

On TERA:

A personnelist appears to be posting on the "Air Force Retirements 2014" Facebook page. She says (on your CDB/Vmpf) if your RNLTD (under restrictions) changes to 1 Aug 2014 and your DOS is 31Jul 2014, go to MPF and ask them to check your milpds records. If your status is "20", then you've been approved for retirement. Apparently it takes a while (sometimes a few days) for info in milpds to "flip" to Vmpf (CDB) and completely update.

Again, I take this with a grain, however, she did have some legit and informative posts, so I'm inclined to believe on this one.

HAF/AFPC: Yet another week, living in the dark. You are eroding every last bit of loyalty in your overworked Force. Please speak up soon.