Or just don't offer continuation and save yourself the hassle of a board ....

Unless you are just dying to get out (or have the next job lined up already), the 1.25 multiplier for VSP does not make financial sense. Not to mention showing your hands to the leadership.

Edited to add the caveat.

Edited January 4, 201411 yr by PanchBarnes

We 2000 O4 guys were part of a RIF board in 2011. Don't think your allowed to be subjected to two

in a row. So when we have another RIF in 2015 we'll be back in the mix ;)

Jrizzell, incorrect. 05 has been on the chopping block twice in a row now. Well that is if you count being eligible but not really being eligible for most of us last time.

Unless you are just dying to get out (or have the next job lined up already), the 1.25 multiplier for VSP does not make financial sense. Not to mention showing your hands to the leadership.

Edited to add the caveat.

Elaborate please...

The 2011 RIF board was only for year group 2000 guys...Sooo unless you had a RFF signed and submitted by you CC don't think you've met the last one.

The 2011 RIF board was only for year group 2000 guys...Sooo unless you had a RFF signed and submitted by you CC don't think you've met the last one.

Wrong

Huh? I was in the last one, and I am in the 2004 year group.

Elaborate please...

VSP results are potentially late summer, with separation at end of Sep 14. Take a big check in FY14 after getting 9 months of salary. Hello 33% income tax bracket.

RIF results are Aug 14, and 31 Jan 15 separation. Extra time, extra pay, "reduced severance" that is actually paid in the next year when you're taking a pay cut.

('03 would see $20K reduction before taxes, but also get paid $26K in base pay alone to languish for 4 months and then take the severance in FY15).

Edited January 4, 201411 yr by addict

Taxes be damned! I need off of this sinking ship ASAP.

That being said, has anyone gotten the "Eligible for Force Reduction" e-mail that was supposed to go out on 31 December? I have talked to a few E's who have received it, but no one on the officer matrix who was expecting it.

If a TERA application gets denied is that member open to a subsequent RIF? Guarantee I'm the only guy in the entire AF wondering about shit like this. Thanks AFPC!

They didn't even take the taxes out of it when I got paid mine. It was like a 26k 2 month loan.

VSP results are potentially late summer, with separation at end of Sep 14. Take a big check in FY14 after getting 9 months of salary. Hello 33% income tax bracket.

RIF results are Aug 14, and 31 Jan 15 separation. Extra time, extra pay, "reduced severance" that is actually paid in the next year when you're taking a pay cut.

('03 would see $20K reduction before taxes, but also get paid $26K in base pay alone to languish for 4 months and then take the severance in FY15).

I see what you are saying...but a vsp looks good if you don't think you would be selected for RIF. My understanding is the RIF is quality cuts based. While I don't think I am a superstar, if you have SOS, masters complete, and a series of good strats my guess is you could have a low shot of getting picked. And then if you bank on the RIF, miss it, and the Air Force subsequently over reacts and cuts too many people you could lose out on your only shot.

VSP results are potentially late summer, with separation at end of Sep 14. Take a big check in FY14 after getting 9 months of salary. Hello 33% income tax bracket.

RIF results are Aug 14, and 31 Jan 15 separation. Extra time, extra pay, "reduced severance" that is actually paid in the next year when you're taking a pay cut.

('03 would see $20K reduction before taxes, but also get paid $26K in base pay alone to languish for 4 months and then take the severance in FY15).

VSP gets you out earlier, and potentially a higher airline seniority number if that's your bag. If you're the type who's sold on getting out to do the airline gig, then VSP is the best vehicle available short of retiring.

Edited January 4, 201411 yr by Dupe

Applying for VSP may increase your chance of getting RIFed as well. I think commanders will be hesitant to waste good strat on a guy who wants out.

Edited January 4, 201411 yr by Jaded

Applying for VSP may increase your chance of getting RIFed as well. I think commanders will be hesitant to waste good strat on a guy who wants out.

What would you do, Jaded?

Your #1 Capt has his OPR close out in Feb '14. He's been the heat in your Sq. His Flt/CC (or shop chief) ranks him #1/15 in his block on the draft OPR, you're intending to make him #1/57 Capts. Then he swings by one day before the OPR closes out and says he's thinking of applying for VSP for personal reasons.

What are you gonna do?

FWIW: I've known precisely one person to apply for VSP from my little corner of the world and get denied...then he told the commander no matter what his next assignment would be his last. After that he asked his commander if he could go to SOS instead of deploying. Dude was a DG out of SOS, is at his last duty station right now. All he ever wanted was to get out, but yet the Air Force wants him in... IDE select as well....

YMMV but those that are in the top 20% already have a plan charted for them and I would think (since I am NOT in the top 20%) that no matter what those that are "chosen" would not feel the repercussions of a VSP application. If you are below the cut line though, I would not submit unless certain.

What would you do, Jaded?

Your #1 Capt has his OPR close out in Feb '14. He's been the heat in your Sq. His Flt/CC (or shop chief) ranks him #1/15 in his block on the draft OPR, you're intending to make him #1/57 Capts. Then he swings by one day before the OPR closes out and says he's thinking of applying for VSP for personal reasons.

What are you gonna do?

Dunno about Jaded, but I'll do what I've always done when writing OPRs and EPRs...write the report with the proper tone based on the person's performance for that year. If they decide the VSP is the right choice, I'll shake their hand on the way out and thank them for their service. I'll also write a letter of recommendation for whatever job they're hoping to hire into.

The machine will go on. Capt Snuffy (#2/57) is still #2/57 even if #1 punches. Unless his OPR comes due >120 days after #1's closes out. Then he can be #1 (if his performance still merits that rating).

I still can't figure out if my experience over many years in the AF is that crazy-different from everyone else's, but I've found the number of solid leaders and commanders to exceed the number of bad leaders and commanders. Maybe it's just that we all remember the bad ones so vividly?

What would you do, Jaded?

Your #1 Capt has his OPR close out in Feb '14. He's been the heat in your Sq. His Flt/CC (or shop chief) ranks him #1/15 in his block on the draft OPR, you're intending to make him #1/57 Capts. Then he swings by one day before the OPR closes out and says he's thinking of applying for VSP for personal reasons.

What are you gonna do?

Has his performance changed from the minute he walked into your office until the minute he walked out? If not, you strat him #1 because that's what his performance deserved. Either you rank honestly or you don't...shouldn't be that hard of a question IMHO.

Now, if a CC wants to flex the rankings in order to help out more of his top performers, I've got no problem with that. Depending on dates of OPR closeouts and PCSs or PCAs you can definitely stack the deck a little bit and give multiple top guys excellent strats without technically double-booking.

But "gaming the system" to the detriment of those you rate on, i.e. failing to strat a guy highly who deserved it based on your honest assessment of his performance based on personnel actions, that's a huge dick move.

What about the RIF me letters to the board? Anyone know on the last round the success rate of that course of action?

What about the RIF me letters to the board? Anyone know on the last round the success rate of that course of action?

What would you do, Jaded?

Your #1 Capt has his OPR close out in Feb '14. He's been the heat in your Sq. His Flt/CC (or shop chief) ranks him #1/15 in his block on the draft OPR, you're intending to make him #1/57 Capts. Then he swings by one day before the OPR closes out and says he's thinking of applying for VSP for personal reasons.

What are you gonna do?

What I would do is strat him as #1/57 because that is where he falls in the rack and stack. Whether he swung by wanting to apply for VSP (voluntarily fulfilling an Air Force need) or TPS (again, volunteering for an Air Force need) to me is irrelevant, because I would be stratifying based on his performance and potential, not on his personal reasons. Besides, what if he was denied VSP (or TPS, for that matter)? Would you hold one against him more than the other? I would not.

Edit: What's with all these damn double posts?

Edited January 4, 201411 yr by Tone deaf

Never burn a bridge…..just because you are getting out, don't do so with your fingers in the air.

Duck, the one KC-10 pilot I know who wrote a do not retain letter the last board was RIF'd.

So 1/1 in my small view.

Duck, the one KC-10 pilot I know who wrote a do not retain letter the last board was RIF'd.

So 1/1 in my small view.

Did he have the record to back that up?

1. It looks like there isn't any current ADSC's that would prohibit one from applying for VSP if eligible (to include the bonus).. correct?

That was exactly what AFPC said last time... And we all know how that turned out. What is it they say about history being doomed to repeat itself?