HeloDude Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 (edited) So today I was looking at the enlisted force shaping matrix and noticed that it specifies certain aircrew members in which VSP/RIF is not eligible even though certain ranks in that specific AFSC are eligible. For example, 1A9's are eligible, however, it listed the exception of CV-22 enlisted aircrew members, and specifically said they were ineligible for the VSP/RIF program. I didn't see any of the same caveats on the officer matrix. Does this mean that all 11S aircraft communities (in VSP/RIF affected year groups) have at least 1 overage/opportunity for an aircrew guy to VSP/RIF? From what limited info I have, I find it hard to believe that the CV's are overmanned, even with the cuts. Edited to get rid of the multiple posts. Edited December 31, 2013 by HeloDude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitzo Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 1) Her name makes me giggle.  2) Frocking is silly to me...either you can promote a General or you can't; makes me think (again) how messed up General officer billets are.  3) I would love to see the citation to go along with that Bronze Star/Afghanistan Campaign Medal.   It's funny to me when I hear the philosophy, "I don't want to rock the boat. I need to see how things work around here before I start changing things." When you only hold a job for a couple years max (such as the career being discussed based on her bio, and most CC jobs for that matter), one really needs to blast in there "like a bull in a china shop" fixing the broken stuff to make a real difference.  Edit: My interwebs went beserko! To a certain extent I agree. The problem from my perspective is "the broken" is above a squadron commanders authority. Creative commanders have gotten what their people want/need and others simply acquiesce to the higher ups. I've seen wing leadership act like the bull and get in the weeds and fix stuff. The end result was stymied morale... The average airman could only understand that his life was worse than a couple months ago. The Air Force is in a constant conundrum between managing and leading. It does not take a bull in a china shop to fix management problems. In that scenario all you create is leadership problems. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk1) Her name makes me giggle.  2) Frocking is silly to me...either you can promote a General or you can't; makes me think (again) how messed up General officer billets are.  3) I would love to see the citation to go along with that Bronze Star/Afghanistan Campaign Medal.   It's funny to me when I hear the philosophy, "I don't want to rock the boat. I need to see how things work around here before I start changing things." When you only hold a job for a couple years max (such as the career being discussed based on her bio, and most CC jobs for that matter), one really needs to blast in there "like a bull in a china shop" fixing the broken stuff to make a real difference.  Edit: My interwebs went beserko! To a certain extent I agree. The problem from my perspective is "the broken" is above a squadron commanders authority. Creative commanders have gotten what their people want/need and others simply acquiesce to the higher ups. I've seen wing leadership act like the bull and get in the weeds and fix stuff. The end result was stymied morale... The average airman could only understand that his life was worse than a couple months ago. The Air Force is in a constant conundrum between managing and leading. It does not take a bull in a china shop to fix management problems. In that scenario all you create is leadership problems. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac airlifter Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) I have a feeling that she and Liquid know each other.... I accidentally upvoted this comment. Grow up. Edited January 1, 2014 by tac airlifter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumangio Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Ok, so I just heard that my Wg/CC will resist any attempt to get out by his 11M members, due to his perception that we are "critically manned." Whether or not he can actually do this, the perception is created that members who volunteer to VSP or introduce a DNR letter in a RIF are not "team players." Anyone else hearing things from their leadership that is running counter to Big Blue's force shaping initiatives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learjetter Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 What I'm telling my VSP/TERA guys: make the decision based on what's best for you...this could be the only AF decision you have input on, ever...so make it count, then live with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwatch Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 GCSs at Creech are filled with dudes (sts) who were supposedly eligible for the last VSP, only to be denied and then given a shit assignment. Supposedly, according to them. There's always another side to that story. Maybe that's what put them on the bottom of a rack&stack, maybe it's not. I personally haven't witnessed the star-player-turned-dirtbag scenario because of a vsp application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaC-21 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Ok, so I just heard that my Wg/CC will resist any attempt to get out by his 11M members, due to his perception that we are "critically manned." Whether or not he can actually do this, the perception is created that members who volunteer to VSP or introduce a DNR letter in a RIF are not "team players." Anyone else hearing things from their leadership that is running counter to Big Blue's force shaping initiatives? Great leadership. I can't believe anyone would want out of an organization like that. If you get push-back, call the IG. That's assuming you can take the purely coincidental shitty ranking that will follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindsight2020 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) Supposedly, according to them. There's always another side to that story. Maybe that's what put them on the bottom of a rack&stack, maybe it's not. I personally haven't witnessed the star-player-turned-dirtbag scenario because of a vsp application. Are you new? I've seen worse out of a Palace Chase application, and that's not even getting out completely or asking for money. You must be trolling. ETA: Porkchop's advice is spot on, you must have that 7-day opt grenade on standby before making these check calls at the AD table. 7 day-opt is like a VISA card, don't leave home without it. Edited January 1, 2014 by hindsight2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splash95 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) I'm very interested to see how all those in Clovistan with no other light at the end of the tunnel will react to these developments. Edited January 1, 2014 by Splash95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrodgsxr Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Ok, so I just heard that my Wg/CC will resist any attempt to get out by his 11M members, due to his perception that we are "critically manned." Whether or not he can actually do this, the perception is created that members who volunteer to VSP or introduce a DNR letter in a RIF are not "team players." Anyone else hearing things from their leadership that is running counter to Big Blue's force shaping initiatives? What base? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimuth Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Sounds like the guy that runs KLRF.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhistory Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Supposedly, according to them. There's always another side to that story. Maybe that's what put them on the bottom of a rack&stack, maybe it's not. I personally haven't witnessed the star-player-turned-dirtbag scenario because of a vsp application. Logged much time in the Air Force? Such has always been the case. If you sacrifice for them, you are a team player. To expect the reverse is selfish and stupid on your part. Let's see what glorious examples I can recall: 1. 1992 force reduction 2. mid-late 1990s Feet on the ramp - don't sign up for the extended bonus, don't fly. Literally. 2. The last VSP shall I go on? Blg Blue absolutely, positively doesn't give one rat's ass about you or any other individual. It will simply say "Next!" edited due to double post. Edited January 2, 2014 by brickhistory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElLoco Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Sounds like the guy that runs KLRF. BOOM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarHeelPilot Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Little Rock??? I thought the C-130 was so overmanned that a lot of the H drivers would never sniff a J cockpit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitzo Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Test<br /><br /><br />Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwatch Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Logged much time in the Air Force? Such has always been the case.If you sacrifice for them, you are a team player. To expect the reverse is selfish and stupid on your part. Let's see what glorious examples I can recall: 1. 1992 force reduction2. mid-late 1990s Feet on the ramp - don't sign up for the extended bonus, don't fly. Literally.2. The last VSP shall I go on? Blg Blue absolutely, positively doesn't give one rat's ass about you or any other individual. It will simply say "Next!"edited due to double post.When I applied for the last VSP, I did so because at the time, it was an opportunity that would have been good for me and my family, and I assumed incorrectly that the AF no longer needed me. Imagine how surprised I was when my boss got so pissed over my application that he kicked me out of creech and sent me back to the viper.In case your sarcasm meter is inop, that last sentence is tongue-in-cheek. Granted, things could not have been worse for me from a flier's standpoint, but don't BAP out of an opportunity because you heard some dude got corn holed for no other reason than a VSP application. I won't be applying for this round of VSP because I love what I'm doing now, but I'm not going to arrogantly tell people that if they apply for VSP they face a certain fate. If getting out of the air force is the right thing for someone and they are eligible, it seems like a no brained to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learjetter Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Fellas, I've been working rated assignments with the last three 11M and other functionals for ~five years. Including three trips to AFPC to haggle. Been working with lots of Sq/CCs and OG/CCs for the same timeframe. Never, not once, has VSP status entered any of those conversations, nor affected someone I know's assignment. If you think your VSP status is affecting your strat, school push, assignment options, etc...PM me, I'd like to hear your story. Edited January 2, 2014 by Learjetter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Logged much time in the Air Force? Such has always been the case. If you sacrifice for them, you are a team player. To expect the reverse is selfish and stupid on your part. Let's see what glorious examples I can recall: 1. 1992 force reduction 2. mid-late 1990s Feet on the ramp - don't sign up for the extended bonus, don't fly. Literally. 2. The last VSP shall I go on? Blg Blue absolutely, positively doesn't give one rat's ass about you or any other individual. It will simply say "Next!" When I got out under Palace Chase years ago after 15 in combined E and O time; the OG wanted to see me during my application. After asking why I was wanting to leave, and hearing my basic logic, his first question was "have you put any thought into service before self?" I figured he'd give me some logical reasons of why to stay full time and on AD. All he served to do, thankfully, was convince me why my decision to leave was sound. Edited January 2, 2014 by MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 When I got out under Palace Chase years ago after 15 in combined E and O time; the OG wanted to see me during my application. After asking why I was wanting to leave, and hearing my basic logic, his first question was "have you put any thought into service before self?"That is a fabulous question to ask someone with 15 years AD. I imagine after hearing it, you immediately considered seppuku. How could continued Reserve duty be anything but complete selfishness?Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinner Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Sounds like the guy that runs KLRF. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Which side? I can see both of them saying that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WABoom Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) AD from the sounds of it. Azimuth and I worked for him, I can see him saying that. I could be wrong...... Edited January 2, 2014 by WABoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinner Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) I assume you mean AMC, but I can see the AETC guy say that too. Edited January 2, 2014 by Spinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WABoom Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I assume you mean AMC, but I can see the AETC guy say that too. This guy. https://www.littlerock.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=17011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinner Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Not surprised... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Hmmm... that guy keeps popping up on the negative side of a lot of our BO.net conversations. Just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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