I've been wondering when I would hit the triggers for my command wings and higher aviator pay. A simple google search showed that the wings come at at 15 years as a rated pilot and the pay at more than 14 years since my first flight. Simple enough. However, I was DNIF for 14 months and seperated for 21 months before joining the guard.

ARMS is telling me that the non-flying months due to my DNIF and seperation don't count towards the gates and I am not elibile for the pay and wings for a while longer. Everything I've read reinforces the gates I've listed above and don't mention non-flying months counting against me. I've never heard of a non-flying staff tour delaying the wings/pay.

Does anybody have any experience with this or can point me to the ARMS reg?

Thanks,

Godfather

11-402 is the reg. DNIF > 6 months counts against you (i.e., you start losing gate months). Separated time counts against you (that just makes sense, no?).

Jughead,

I read the reg and what you said makes sense. The only thing I haven't been able to reconcile is the DNIF >6 months. All my paperwork shows anything greater than 3 months stops the gate progression.

Try asking the top 1C0 at your base/ nearest HARM shop. I know a good senior E 1C0 could easily find the answer to what you are looking for.

Normally I would agree, but finding answers like this at a guard base is nearly impossible Sig.

Normally I would agree, but finding answers like this at a guard base is nearly impossible Sig.

Awesome, and so true, hats and keys on the desk and nowhere to be found

Jughead,

I read the reg and what you said makes sense. The only thing I haven't been able to reconcile is the DNIF >6 months. All my paperwork shows anything greater than 3 months stops the gate progression.

Correct. If you do not fly for 3 months, you stop accumulating gate months in the 4th month. Sims don't count.

The wings are based on 3,000+ hours and >15 years of aviation service. As long as you have a current AO for 15 years of time and 3,000+ hours (or 15 years on AOs and 2,300+ hours with 144+ gate months) then you get the toilet bowl.

You get your first set of AOs when you graduate UPT.

Edited January 26, 201312 yr by ThreeHoler

Unless I'm reading it wrong, as long as you have the years and OFDA, hours don't actually matter.

Look at your SURF. It lists your gate months.

Correct. If you do not fly for 3 months, you stop accumulating gate months in the 4th month. Sims don't count.

Depends on what kind of billet you're in. Speaking only as an AD guy, that didn't kick in for me until I went over 6 months (I was DNIF about a year)--YMMV, particularly for the OP (who mentioned he's Guard)....

You get your first set of AOs when you graduate UPT.

You are on AOs during (shortly after starting) UPT.

It's not necessarily gate months accrued. It's based on years since your ASD (aviation service date). Normally, if you have no break in service, your ASD will be your first event in pilot training (probably your first physiology class). If you have a break in service, the ASD gets adjusted similar to your date of rank getting adjusted. So, look at your ASD (should be on your SURF or ARMs records) and add 15 for command wings and 14 for the pay.

AFCENT/CC has his wings sewn on his OCP unifom: https://www.afcent.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/2013/08/130727-F-XI929-032.JPG

Was an exception made just for him or is this common now?

AFCENT/CC has his wings sewn on his OCP unifom: https://www.afcent.af...F-XI929-032.JPG

Was an exception made just for him or is this common now?

2 weeks ago I picked up my issued OCP's, all Velcro. Our type III uniforms (multi-cam) have them sewn on.

Correct. If you do not fly for 3 months, you stop accumulating gate months in the 4th month. Sims don't count.

The wings are based on 3,000+ hours and >15 years of aviation service. As long as you have a current AO for 15 years of time and 3,000+ hours (or 15 years on AOs and 2,300+ hours with 144+ gate months) then you get the toilet bowl.

You get your first set of AOs when you graduate UPT.

So if I don't fly for three months, then I do fly in month 4, those three months do not count towards gate months? Or you get three months free and you have to fly in the fourth month? I'm in exactly this position due to sequestration...August is month 4, but I'm scheduled to fly before the month is out.

Yes, you get three months "free" after your last flight.

If you fly in the fourth month you will be fine. If you do not fly in the fourth month but fly in the fifth month, you will lose one gate month (the fourth).

AFCENT/CC has his wings sewn on his OCP unifom: https://www.afcent.af...F-XI929-032.JPG

Was an exception made just for him or is this common now?

I'm pretty sure it was in the uni reg for OCPs, just that nobody went to the trouble of wearing the wings. the unit I was in actually had us putting regular desert name tags with badges on the shoulder....it looked lousy.

Yes, you get three months "free" after your last flight.

If you fly in the fourth month you will be fine. If you do not fly in the fourth month but fly in the fifth month, you will lose one gate month (the fourth).

Does this count if one is on a non-flying deployment? i.e. doing an LNO gig?

Does this count if one is on a non-flying deployment? i.e. doing an LNO gig?

Last time I did a long non-flying deployment Flt records coded me so I didn't lose gate months. I think it is a j or k code can't remember, but your Flt records people should know.

1. Aviation svc date = Aug '05

2. UPT grad date = Dec '06

No long term DNIFs, one 6 month non-flying deployment, flying the rest of the time without breaks.

So...senior pilot wings should have started Aug '12 or Dec '13?

It seems like I'm hearing two different stories...

I did a record review 3 months ago and it was not mentioned.

Any advice would be appreciated. Either way, I'm going back to the HARM shop tomorrow.

1. Aviation svc date = Aug '05

2. UPT grad date = Dec '06

No long term DNIFs, one 6 month non-flying deployment, flying the rest of the time without breaks.

So...senior pilot wings should have started Aug '12 or Dec '13?

It seems like I'm hearing two different stories...

I did a record review 3 months ago and it was not mentioned.

Any advice would be appreciated. Either way, I'm going back to the HARM shop tomorrow.

Wings are based on years rated so Dec not Aug. Flight pay dates are based on Aviation Service so Aug in your case.

Makes sense why the HARM shop said nothing. Thanks RTB.

From the day you hit the flight line in UPT, so goes your flight pay and aero orders. They even prorated the crap when you hit the flight line in the middle of the month. There.

HARM Shop probably stared at you blankly. Standard. Go in and tell them it's in AFI 11-402, Table 2.1 Line 4:

To award senior pilot, you must have: At least 7 years rated service as a pilot, permanent award of USAF pilot rating and At least 2000 total pilot hours, OR 1300 hours (any combination of primary, instructor, and/or evaluator pilot time), OR 72 months OFDA (Operational Flying Duty Accumulator, also known as gate months).

From the day you hit the flight line in UPT, so goes your flight pay and aero orders. They even prorated the crap when you hit the flight line in the middle of the month. There.

It's before you hit the flight line...it starts the first day of class.

Mine didn't, guess I got screwed for not being on the flight line