December 22, 201113 yr Valid discussion, but let's move it to a different thread. Agreed, so anyone looking to continue with the F-22 in combat discussion can do so in the following thread; where all comments not related to this incident have been moved... Cheers! M2
February 9, 201213 yr From the Air Force Association this morning: Pentagon Inspector General Looks into F-22 Crash Probe: The Defense Department's Inspector General is investigating the probe conducted by an Air Force accident investigation board on the fatal F-22 crash in Alaska in November 2010. "The assessment will focus on the adherence of the AIB to the procedures set forth in Air Force Instruction (AFI) 51-503, 'Aerospace Accident Investigations,'" wrote Randolph Stone, deputy IG for policy and oversight, to Air Force Secretary Michael Donley in a Jan. 25 letter. It will also "verify that AIB conclusions are supported by evidence of record consistent with standards of proof established by AFI 51-503," states the missive. Bridget Serchak, an IG office spokeswoman, told the Daily Report "this project has just gotten underway," so it's not clear when the investigation will be complete. Pacific Air Forces accident investigators determined that the F-22 pilot's failure to "recognize and initiate a timely dive recovery" was the most direct cause of the Raptor crash. They also cited contributing factors like training deficiencies in their report, released in December. Capt. Jeffrey Haney, a pilot assigned to JB Elmendorf, Alaska, lost his life in the crash. (AFI 51-503 full text and F-22 AIB report; caution, large sized documents.)
February 9, 201213 yr Perhaps a second look by someone less inclined to "overlook" or minimize potential contributing factors (like a lack of O2) will result in a different conclusion.
February 10, 201213 yr I truly wonder if cockpit/aircrew equipment design was even considered IIRC, it was listed as a contributory factor.
February 10, 201213 yr IIRC, it was listed as a contributory factor. Seemed to be more of a causal factor from this layman's perspective (I'm not a safety guy)
February 10, 201213 yr And the usual spin... Schwartz: Inspector General's F-22 Probe is Normal: The Pentagon's inspector general probe into the Air Force's investigation of a fatal F-22 crash "actually is fairly routine," said Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz Thursday. Appearing publicly for a speech in Washington, D.C., Schwartz asserted that the IG "has a mandate to ensure that accident investigations comply with service regulations" and that the investigations' findings "reflect back on the evidence that was collected." He said this policy "is not specific to this weapon system," meaning the F-22, and promised full Air Force cooperation. Asked for a fuller explanation as to why the IG launched the probe, an IG spokeswoman said the inspector general has "discretion" to examine any activity of the Defense Department. The IG's "self-initiated evaluation" of the F-22 accident investigation "is one of many" such probes that the IG conducts, she said. "A number of elements play a role in the DOD IG's decision to initiate a particular assessment," she added, including "an underlying interest and concern for maintaining and ensuring the safety of our service members." The spokeswoman said she couldn't comment further. The F-22 crashed in Alaska in November 2010, killing the pilot.
February 11, 201213 yr It looked to me like the AIB danced around some of the important factors. Yes, the pilot was killed because he 'failed to initiate a dive recovery.' But if you think of the investigation like a debrief, it is difficult to believe the dive recovery was the root cause. If he couldn't take a breath and was hypoxic, it is hard to recognize, confirm, and recover.
March 7, 201213 yr Schwartz: "AF didn't blame Haney" I do not trust anything Schwartz says any more. The report specifically faulted Maj Haney and assigned blame to him despite other major contributing factors (some arguably causal). There was a single pilot and "we" didn't lose control, the pilot did. He's trying to save face here and take some heat off the board and its results, but his claims defy logic. Then he says the report is complete, but they are still working hard to find a cause?!? I'm confused as to how anyone could trust his opinion at this point. Edited March 7, 201213 yr by BQZip01
March 7, 201213 yr Air Force Contradicts Itself in Blame for F-22 Fighter Crash https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/air-force-blame-dead-pilot-report-gen/story?id=15868317 Edited March 7, 201213 yr by ClearedHot
March 8, 201213 yr "Since the planes went back in the air, the Air Force has reported another nine incidents of pilots experiencing the "hypoxia-like" symptoms -- leading to a handful of one-day "pauses" in operations at various bases." Why has this not been news? It looks like to me the AF is trying to justify it's new expensive jet (not that I have anything against it) and trying to sweep things under the rug. IMHO it looks like another accident waiting to happen.
March 15, 201213 yr F-22 crash prompts lawsuit by pilot's widow https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/f-22-crash-prompts-lawsuit-by-pilots-widow-369479/ Full Text of the lawsuit at this link https://www.scribd.com/doc/85253929/F22-Lawsuit
March 17, 201213 yr If nothing else this might make a 1 star not feel pressured to find the MP as the main causal because it would be sacrilege to say the AF's newest, greatest, super pricey toy has some problems with it...still.
March 18, 201213 yr This is happening far too often. I can't imagine something with O2 happening at 50k, since lightweight my plane struggled to get to 43k.
February 11, 201312 yr DoD IG slams AF Investigation https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2013/02/airforce-report-f22-crash-slammed-by-dod-ig-021113/
February 11, 201312 yr there's not enough polish in the world for this turd. It stinks & everyone can smell it.
February 11, 201312 yr Yet nothing will happen. The Generals will stay Generals and the Colonels will become Generals. Sad.
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