Guest moostang Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) wrong. Bigger surface means more force, sure ... sometimes. Also means more drag, usually more weight. so if F=ma (remember high school physics), and you increase BOTH the force (your big ass surfaces) and the Mass (F-16 vs. F-15, etc.), what happens to the acceleration? Can't tell can you? And that's just basic static high-school level math. Aerodynamics, learn some. You're doing a fine job of that all by yourself I know it's more complicated and I don't have and am not asking for specific data, so I asked a simple question: How an F-16 out-turns an F-15 in a dogfight, if possible to answer without violating opsec. You're trying pretty hard. EDIT: Deleted Stuff Edited June 30, 2009 by moostang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stract Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Interesting that you don't. Ps is referred to commonly by fighter jocks when making comparisons. But, no doubt as the WGFP flying the WGASF, I can understand why such nerd talk would be anathema to you! shit, I'm a helo driver and I know what Ps (we just call it "Pee sub ess", though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest moostang Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Moostang I give up. You won't listen. Your questions are not real questions. Why are they not real questions? Because we are real fighter pilots and I am telling you they are not real questions. I CANNOT answer your ridicuous questions because they do not make any sense. There is no formula for BFM. A + B does not always equal C! Go back and do what I said. Read the posts about being a good wingman and how to succeed in UNT or UPT, if that is indeed what you want to do. It will be much better for you in the long run. Apparently this is what happens when you try and help people. They don't listen to you and continue to ask stupid questions. No more. It's back to ridicule and sarcasm for all unintelligent questions! Cheers, BeerMan All I asked was; How an F-16 out-turns an F-15 in a dogfight, if possible to answer without violating opsec. I have been reading the posts you describe, but wanted to spur an F-15 v F-16 discussion, not be discussed myself. It may not be possible without violating OPSEC, if not, oh well. Edited June 30, 2009 by moostang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperStud Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) I'll vote for the Viper, Eagle's got too much surface area for someone else to shoot at (not that they'd ever end up behind us anyway) and it's way to fvcking big and easy to keep sight of. I've fought Eagles 6-9 times with a few wins, a few losses, and a few times stuck neutral. Chucklenuts (moostang) I know you want to try to ask a stupid question in a vacuum because you simply can't understand all the what-ifs. The problem is it can't be done, because the what-ifs far outweigh the difference between the two airframes. Vipers and Eagles are pretty close to each other in the BFM arena, so close that it depends on the pilot flying the jet. Some dudes simply get owned because they don't know how to handle it when the other guy does something even a little non-standard. It will rarely come down to which jet has that .069 degree/sec turn advantage (numbers made up), so you are asking a stupid question that does not matter. Listen to the real fighter pilots here and stop. Until you are in a position to look at EM diagrams for the viper and eagle in a controlled environment (I have, so have other fighter guys here) you are only making yourself sound stupid. Edited to add another zinger Edited June 30, 2009 by ViperStud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverTQ Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Dude, if you don’t toughen up, you will get eaten alive. Disengage, learn your lesson and reengage at a more opportune time. You are chumming the water and are completely take surprised when the sharks show up to take a bite out of your ass. If you really want to be a pilot one day, learn how to take a honest and critical view of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boredwith9to5 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 You need to be like the rest of us pilot hopefuls on these boards and keep your mouth shut when it comes to talking shop. Don't bother yourself with things that won't help you get accepted. Knowing the surface area on the bottom of an F-15 and it's turn radius in a vacuum vs an F-16 (?) will not impress the board and increase your chances. Shut up, go read some books, and when seasoned pilots (whom one day you might be flying with) tell you to shut up and stop asking stupid questions, you should shut up. They won't want to fly with someone who won't listen to them. Just enjoy the conversation and if you must ask a question, make sure it's not a stupid one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1083x Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 This thread reminded me of something I read in Eye of the Viper by Peter Aleshire, page 46. Talking about the Viper's wing area, to quote: The Air Force settled on 300 square feet, in part to prevent the Viper from outmaneuvering the Eagle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summe32c Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hacker I was too busy getting kicked in the nuts by Latka and Bear. Valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toro Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 All I asked was; How an F-16 out-turns an F-15 in a dogfight, if possible to answer without violating opsec. I have been reading the posts you describe, but wanted to spur an F-15 v F-16 discussion, not be discussed myself. It may not be possible without violating OPSEC, if not, oh well. Holy crap - are you still talking? Time out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoo Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Two things: 1. I don't know what that's a picture of. Forgive my ignorance. B. Your avatar is fvcking ridiculous. Holy crap - are you still talking? He wants to have the last word. Wait for it... Wait for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKopack Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 He wants to have the last word. Wait for it... Wait for it... But we've been waiting for four pages... I'm with Moonstang though. What if it was an F-15 with buckets of power and large surface area (?!?) against a Piper Cub with huge surface area and almost no weight, in a vacuum - or even underwater? To make it more interesting, let's say that the Cub has a really, really fat woman in the front seat and the Eagle is painted bright green, has a third engine up between the tails, and the pilot's name is Bob. Which airplane would outturn the other? Obviously don't violate OPSEC. Just to make it clear, I'm not a fighter pilot, I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summe32c Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) Two things: 1. I don't know what that's a picture of. Forgive my ignorance. B. Your avatar is fvcking ridiculous. He wants to have the last word. Wait for it... Wait for it... 1) It's a picture of you leaving the room due to ridicule, much like moostang. B) I'd rather look at my "ridiculous" avatar every single second of every day (probably get boring after a while) than your Cartoon fox, or skunk, or whatever that fvcking thing is....of course, forgive my ignorance. I think moostang took the hint. CHEERS Edited June 30, 2009 by summe32c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 B) I'd rather look at my "ridiculous" avatar every single second of every day (probably get boring after a while) than your Cartoon fox, or skunk, or whatever that fvcking thing is....of course, forgive my ignorance. I think he meant ridiculous in a good way...I can't find a single bad thing about that avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hueypilot812 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 B) I'd rather look at my "ridiculous" avatar every single second of every day (probably get boring after a while) than your Cartoon fox, or skunk, or whatever that fvcking thing is....of course, forgive my ignorance. Badger? As in Wisconsin? On another note, the OP's question reminds me of some of the things asked at airshows...as though we go to work and debate things like "F-15 vs F-16" or "C-5 vs C-130", etc. True, there's plenty of inter-community jabs, but don't these guys understand that maybe we have more important things to discuss? Like our own specific missions and squadron issues? Nothing like standing there at a C-21 static in Alaska and getting asked "so what do you think is better...this thing or an F-15?". All I could manage was "Really?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contraildash Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Nothing like standing there at a C-21 static in Alaska and getting asked "so what do you think is better...this thing or an F-15?". All I could manage was "Really?" ...well...it depends... ;) I hope I never have to be the guy at an airshow static display, three reasons: 1) stupid fvcking questions 2) having to repeat myself 100+ times 3) can't drink beer Probably just jinxed myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris1083x Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 B) I'd rather look at my "ridiculous" avatar every single second of every day (probably get boring after a while) than your Cartoon fox, or skunk, or whatever that fvcking thing is....of course, forgive my ignorance. Summers, you been drinking during the day again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stract Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 But we've been waiting for four pages... I'm with Moonstang though. What if it was an F-15 with buckets of power and large surface area (?!?) against a Piper Cub with huge surface area and almost no weight, in a vacuum - or even underwater? To make it more interesting, let's say that the Cub has a really, really fat woman in the front seat and the Eagle is painted bright green, has a third engine up between the tails, and the pilot's name is Bob. Which airplane would outturn the other? Obviously don't violate OPSEC. Just to make it clear, I'm not a fighter pilot, I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night. Mike hellllloooooooo....obviously, flying slower means smaller turn radius, so the answer is obvious! The helicopter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B*D*A Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 What if it was an F-15 with buckets of power and large surface area (?!?) against a Piper Cub with huge surface area and almost no weight, in a vacuum - or even underwater? To make it more interesting, let's say that the Cub has a really, really fat woman in the front seat and the Eagle is painted bright green, has a third engine up between the tails, and the pilot's name is Bob. Which airplane would outturn the other? Would Ditka be driving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Would Ditka be driving? Dat makes a baker's dozen der Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60 driver Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Holy crap - are you still talking? Time out for you. Let him go, he's on a roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelzUp Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Jeezus.......4 pages of this garbage so far???? Really??? Uncle already! Wheelz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoo Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) 1) It's a picture of you leaving the room due to ridicule, much like moostang. B) I'd rather look at my "ridiculous" avatar every single second of every day (probably get boring after a while) than your Cartoon fox, or skunk, or whatever that fvcking thing is....of course, forgive my ignorance. I think moostang took the hint. CHEERS He took the hint - you didn't. It was a compliment you jackass. I thought the sarcasm was plainly obvious - at least somebody figured it out (see quote below). Now explain that F-ing picture.I think he meant ridiculous in a good way...I can't find a single bad thing about that avatar. Edited July 1, 2009 by Spoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperStud Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 hellllloooooooo....obviously, flying slower means smaller turn radius, so the answer is obvious! The helicopter. But who would win between the helicopter and an African swallow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boredwith9to5 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Is the African Swallow carrying a coconut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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