Air Force "hap arnold " dress blue jacket

[Guest xclozano]

Would anyone know if the US Air Force ever adopted the "Hap Arnold" style service coat ?

[VFR800]

A decision on that was deferred to focus on "more important" uniform issues such as "Blues Monday."

[Guest Smoke_Jaguar4]

The only guy who was really hot for it was the last CSAF who got ass-canned. In other words, this uniform has a better chance of coming back than the Hap Arnold:

[M2]

Sorry Smoke, but if you search on here you'll find the previous CSAF envisioned a Hap Arnold-style Service Dress. He-whose-name-shall-not-be-mentioned (nor should his picture appear) was the one who put us all in airline pilot uniforms...

Cheers! M2

[Guest Smoke_Jaguar4]

Sorry Smoke, but if you search on here you'll find the previous CSAF envisioned a Hap Arnold-style Service Dress. He-whose-name-shall-not-be-mentioned (nor should his picture appear) was the one who put us all in airline pilot uniforms...

Cheers! M2

I think you misunderstood my post (check my location)

Chrome-Dome was all over anything Hap Arnold (uniform, wings, etc...). Now that he's been 'forceshaped', his uniform abomination joins the Air Admiral's jacket in the dumpster of history. Good riddance to both.

[StoleIt]

I think you misunderstood my post (check my location)

Chrome-Dome was all over anything Hap Arnold (uniform, wings, etc...). Now that he's been 'forceshaped', his uniform abomination joins the Air Admiral's jacket in the dumpster of history. Good riddance to both.

I am really happy that uniform got canned. Look at the officer...the pocket is so high up that his ribbon rack takes up majority of the room. He barely has space for wings...let alone if he was jump qualified or had an addition badge. Then his wings would be under his epaulette. And the AF doesn't need to waste more money on stupid uniform changes, more importantly.

[Duck]

Yeah... but maybe if we didn't give out ribbons for everything, then we wouldn't have a thousand Mexican Generals running around with ribbon racks that look like the Crayola factory exploded.

[M2]

Smoke,

My bad, was too late last night to be posting (but I wasn't drunk, unfortunately).

Funny thing is, I saw the Hap Arnold-wearing Service dress GO at MacDill a couple months back. He doesn't look that happy in real life, I think because these photos of him were leaked and sent across the globe. I'm sure he gets the "Hey, aren't you that dude..." several times daily!

And, to add to stoleit2x's list of reasons that uniformed sucked, considering that so many "warfighters" in the Air Force appear to be overweight; that belt will only make it more obvious. It was the reason it got rid of the cool Ike jacket...

Cheers! M2

[slacker]

I am really happy that uniform got canned. Look at the officer...the pocket is so high up that his ribbon rack takes up majority of the room. He barely has space for wings...let alone if he was jump qualified or had an addition badge. Then his wings would be under his epaulette. And the AF doesn't need to waste more money on stupid uniform changes, more importantly.

We need to go back to all-some or none on the ribbons, not all. It looks ridiculous to have wings under the epaulette. I always like just wearing the training ribbon, to make people wonder.

[Guest Yoda]

Yeah... but maybe if we didn't give out ribbons for everything, then we wouldn't have a thousand Mexican Generals running around with ribbon racks that look like the Crayola factory exploded.

But check out the ...........she appears to be an E8........very small rack Not alot of ribbons for her.

[Guest Nova]

But check out the ...........she appears to be an E8........very small rack

STS

[Guest Nova]

Yeah... but maybe if we didn't give out ribbons for everything, then we wouldn't have a thousand Mexican Generals running around with ribbon racks that look like the Crayola factory exploded.

I'm all for recognizing people for their milestones & accomplishments, but I agree that the ribbon is not a "one size fits all" solution. Just speaking in terms of appearances, it seems that all our awards come in ribbon/medal form, ie. the Combat Action Medal which was partially a response to Airmen wearing the Army Combat Action Badge. IMO that badge is pretty impressive looking, it's unique from our other uniform items and I would be very proud to wear it if earned...speaking only for myself of course, having another ribbon on my rack wouldn't have quite the same effect for me. I also think that perhaps it should be somewhat set apart from other achievements (outside the rack). Longevity is another ribbon I would rather trade in for hash marks on the sleeve. Maybe if we were to adopt these categories of awards like our sister services (badges, hashes, etc) we could kill three birds with one stone without reinventing the wheel:

1-existing service dress would appear more militant and less business like.

2-career milestones would be acknowledged with more distinction.

3-ribbon rack size would be reasonable (no matter how many ribbons you add to "the airliner" it still looks corporate).

Anyhow, just one Airman's opinion

[BQZip01]

I'm all for recognizing people for their milestones & accomplishments, but I agree that the ribbon is not a "one size fits all" solution. Just speaking in terms of appearances, it seems that all our awards come in ribbon/medal form, ie. the Combat Action Medal which was partially a response to Airmen wearing the Army Combat Action Badge. IMO that badge is pretty impressive looking, it's unique from our other uniform items and I would be very proud to wear it if earned...speaking only for myself of course, having another ribbon on my rack wouldn't have quite the same effect for me. I also think that perhaps it should be somewhat set apart from other achievements (outside the rack). Longevity is another ribbon I would rather trade in for hash marks on the sleeve. Maybe if we were to adopt these categories of awards like our sister services (badges, hashes, etc) we could kill three birds with one stone without reinventing the wheel:

1-existing service dress would appear more militant and less business like.

2-career milestones would be acknowledged with more distinction.

3-ribbon rack size would be reasonable (no matter how many ribbons you add to "the airliner" it still looks corporate).

Anyhow, just one Airman's opinion

I am all for a nine ribbons or less thing. It would eliminate the gaudy Mexican General look of some people. This has nothing to do with the awards (everyone who received one deserves credit), but the whole "I'm gonna make a quilt" mentality is somewhat out of control. We had that back in ROTC to discourage the selfish display of ribbons and it seemed to get people more involved in specific tasks instead of lots of little ones just to get ribbons.

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

I've got an idea, let's use the "highschool letter jacket" idea. Everything is stitched on the wool middle and faux leather sleeves. A big "A" on the left breast with an aircraft badge once they are CMR in their MWS with hash marks for every year CMR. On the back you have your last name in big block writing with other patches stitched on for all of your deployments, durations and locations. All ribbons/medals can be seen on the sleeves. Rank will be pinned in the center of the "A" so you have the option to "pop" your collar. Seriously, think about it, we could all relive our football/band glory days...it would be AWESOME!

Haha...

[FourFans]

Sad to say, but there is a fatal flaw with any uniform designed to actually recognize people that have earned recognition in the USAF. The operators (zippersuited sungods, silo sitters, SF, STS, PJs, CCT, convoy drivers etc) would actually stand out because of their accomplishments and sacrifices. The non-operators (services, comm, etc) would simply look like they were in the military...and not "special"...which would inherently hurt someone's feelings. Because Big Blue seems to be all about making the individuals feel good instead of getting the mission done, any special recognition for a difficult job well done would obviously lead to dissension in the ranks. Keep the masses happy, make everyone feel special, don't recognize good work...unless it will look good in the media...that's the AF we live in today.

Thankfully there are men like Discus who do this job they hate so much because they love it, and the men and women they work with, so damn much. Amen for the mission hackers who don't care what the blues uniform looks like, because it has zero mission impact on the missions that actually count.

FF

[MD]

Sad to say, but there is a fatal flaw with any uniform designed to actually recognize people that have earned recognition in Amen for the mission hackers who don't care what the blues uniform looks like, because it has zero mission impact on the missions that actually count.

FF

Wish someone would get that memo to the CSAF..........he seems a bit out of touch with reality, out the gate.

[Slander]

Sad to say, but there is a fatal flaw with any uniform designed to actually recognize people that have earned recognition in the USAF. The operators (zippersuited sungods, silo sitters, SF, STS, PJs, CCT, convoy drivers etc) would actually stand out because of their accomplishments and sacrifices. The non-operators (services, comm, etc) would simply look like they were in the military...and not "special"...which would inherently hurt someone's feelings. Because Big Blue seems to be all about making the individuals feel good instead of getting the mission done, any special recognition for a difficult job well done would obviously lead to dissension in the ranks. Keep the masses happy, make everyone feel special, don't recognize good work...unless it will look good in the media...that's the AF we live in today.

Thankfully there are men like Discus who do this job they hate so much because they love it, and the men and women they work with, so damn much. Amen for the mission hackers who don't care what the blues uniform looks like, because it has zero mission impact on the missions that actually count.

FF

Maybe I'm just a stupid SNAP but here's what I think about this...I don't mind if the guys who do the shit I wouldn't want to do (finance, comm, mpf, anything non-flying related) get recognized for doing their job better than other people who are in their career field. I have no experience in the AF, I'm just a lowly UPT STUD and haven't seen what you guys have seen, I recognize that. But, from a leadership prospective if we don't recognize the guys who do what we don't want to, even if it's not glorious like SF, CCT, pilot, whatever, would anyone do it? That being said, nothing pisses me off more than when MPF told me last week to come back in the afternoon to pick something up and then were closed for a unit sponsored event. That's horseshit.

I guess all I'm saying is I don't mind people being recognized for good work in any career field, as long as it is truly good work.

Sidenote, apparently now every casual guy at CBM is going to get an AF Achievement medal if they have a job for more than 2 months. I think that's pretty fvcked up and reminds me a lot of grade inflation in college (everyone deserves an A, so let's give out participation and attendance points to make it easier). If we give every idiot 2LT like me an AF Achievement medal for not fvcking up whatever shop they're stuck in for 3 months while they wait to start IFS/gAySBC/UPT/whatever, then doesn't that diminish the value of a medal in the first place? Caveat, if they work their ass off as a scheduler I'll buy it; but I over heard a couple IPs the other day saying "I just don't understand why I have to write this kid up for a medal, he asked me if he could just come in at 9 every day even if he doesn't go to the gym since I told him he could come in at 9 if he did. And I am supposed to write him up for a medal? For being what? Lazy?" Maybe I'm just wide-eyed and naive, but does that really happen? A lot?

[FourFans]

Maybe I'm just a stupid SNAP but here's what I think about this...

Apply the thinking in your last paragraph to the people in your first paragraph and you'll understand some of the frustration. You've already seen the overinflation involved with AF awards. (btw, yes most casual LTs get PCS medals). Then apply that on a career level. There are some people that spend an entire career showing up at 9 and leaving at 3 on days they don't go to the gym. And these people also complain about having to deploy to the Deid, Diego, or even Guam, and then complain about horrible living conditions etc...

No one should ever complain about the volunteers that go lead convoys and pull SF augmentee duty. We ARE complaining about the career AETC nerds that get all over a maintainer with a dirty uniform who's just trying to get his paycheck fixed after working a 12 hour shift. Those nerds are the ones worried about ANOTHER new uniform while we're actively at war in two foreign countries.

FF

[Slander]

Got it. Thanks for making sense of it for me.

[FireMission]

Hopping in on the awards discussion, the one good thing about that uniform is that the guy has obviously been around a while.. AND HAS 3 RIBBONS. Perfect. One row - "Hey, thanks for sticking around for 20!" Two rows - "Unholy bad ass!"

But if you look at the lowest one he is wearing it looks like the Legion of Merit w/OLC. Probably doing it up Navy style where they sometimes wear (not sure all the rules they have) only their highest 3 ribbons.

[FourFans]

But if you look at the lowest one he is wearing it looks like the Legion of Merit w/OLC. Probably doing it up Navy style where they sometimes wear (not sure all the rules they have) only their highest 3 ribbons.

That checks.

[M2]

But if you look at the lowest one he is wearing it looks like the Legion of Merit w/OLC. Probably doing it up Navy style where they sometimes wear (not sure all the rules they have) only their highest 3 ribbons.

Yes, under he-whose-name-shall-not-be-mentioned there was a change to the Dress and Appearance AFI that allowed "all, some or none" when it came to ribbons. It was mentioned earlier, and was a great option as it allowed us not to look like the aforementioned Mexican generals...

Most went with the "top 3" option, some went NATO approach and only wore one (most countries aren't as medal-happy and don't hand them out like candy like the US).

Cheers! M2

[Stitch]

I suspect the moment the awards thing went off the rails was when they became part of the points system for E's. Once you do that, you have to give them out for guys to get promoted... and most of them instantly becoming checking a box for points, and nothing more.

Exactly! Not to mention for the all important "Wing Goober of the Quarter/Month/Week" geek of the week competition. In shoe world "Awards=Professional"

On top of that' its also double edged sword. Some guy works for a supervisor who is singlehandedly trying to "fix the system" by NOT giving out awards. Then down the road time for promotion boards for E-8/E-9 and you don't have a decoration. This can falsely give the impression that your a worthless bag of dirt because you didn't get in on the great decoration giveaway. This mess is going to take YEARS to correct.

[MD]

Exactly! Not to mention for the all important "Wing Goober of the Quarter/Month/Week" geek of the week competition. In shoe world "Awards=Professional"

On top of that' its also double edged sword. Some guy works for a supervisor who is singlehandedly trying to "fix the system" by NOT giving out awards. Then down the road time for promotion boards for E-8/E-9 and you don't have a decoration. This can falsely give the impression that your a worthless bag of dirt because you didn't get in on the great decoration giveaway. This mess is going to take YEARS to correct.

Just the same as giving a guy straight "3"s on an EPR if he's just someone that shows up to work, does his job, and goes home.....nothing overly special. But he'd get royally screwed, even if that was the intent of the form.