ATC call sign questions

[Guest ruckerstud]

I was wondering how most units assign STATESIDE callsign numbers, i.e., Speedo 60, Pogo 21. Do most folks get a choice in the matter or are they just assigned one? If you get a choice, are there any cool stories associated with how people chose their numbers? And if there are any OPSEC issues with this tread, please delete is ASAP.

[Dead Last]

I was wondering how most units assign STATESIDE callsign numbers, i.e., Speedo 60, Pogo 21. Do most folks get a choice in the matter or are they just assigned one? If you get a choice, are there any cool stories associated with how people chose their numbers? And if there are any OPSEC issues with this tread, please delete is ASAP.

The Herk world generally goes by an assigned callsign per squadron; 61st is Raven, 5-oh is Bull, 53rd is horse, 62 is jody and the brass get Rock. Not sure about other than Little Rock

cheers

[HuggyU2]

A few years back, we decided we needed 2 more callsigns. We found out that there was "a process" to get them. We had to submit a request to the FAA, and their "random generator" gave us two callsigns. Our requests were ignored.

Many callsigns have been around for decades. I don't know how they did it then, but I imagine it was more "history" and "cool stuff" oriented.

As for new callsigns, my guess is that some units just ignore "the process", and pick their own. Just start using them, and fait accompli.

[Guest ruckerstud]

Thanks for the replys, I was more interested in the number than the actual call signs, such as does a given person get assigned a specific number Speedo 1 or whatever, and if there were any stories associated with those numbers

[Bluto]

We have squadron callsigns too, not specific for each pilot. Numbers are just associated with the flying periods.

[P-3FO]

Our pilots usually pick the number they want after their callsign. However, the Skipper and XO usually get "1" and "2" respectively. I believe we did have a guy get "69" as an approved callsign because he said it was his birth year.

[Rocker]

Just write "GIANTBALLS 41" on your 175 and see what happens.

And for the record, does anyone know of a reg that states whether you can or can't assign numbers within your squadron? We thought about doing this and it wasn't in our local Ch 10 or base reg.

[vsu8992]

Just write "GIANTBALLS 41" on your 175 and see what happens.

And for the record, does anyone know of a reg that states whether you can or can't assign numbers within your squadron? We thought about doing this and it wasn't in our local Ch 10 or base reg.

AFI 33-217 deals with VCS regs.

The AFKAI-1 is the doc you're wing CP or crypto shop should have onhand that lists the callsigns you're unit is officially assigned to. There might be some guindance there on flt numbers.

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/usaf/33-217.htm

[Guest rotorhead]

Just write "GIANTBALLS 41" on your 175 and see what happens.

And for the record, does anyone know of a reg that states whether you can or can't assign numbers within your squadron? We thought about doing this and it wasn't in our local Ch 10 or base reg.

You have to be 4-6 letters, and 1-2 numbers in the CS. For example, you may think you hear "moccasin 01" but what you actually hear is MOCSN 01.

Units will be given acceptable names/numbers, and how they distribute them is their business.

For example, let's say your wing is assigned GHOST 01-99 for HH-60G.

The unit could have the scheme where the line number is GHOST 01, GHOST 02, etc.

Or it could go by flights such as GHOST 21 flies lead with GHOST 22, etc.

Or it could give each pilot a CS, (like I was GHOST 77).

Or it could adapt it to tail number.

There must not be conflicts with other units, and geographical boundaries may be set (like, "don't use GHOST outside 150 miles of base, etc., because a unit 300 miles away also uses GHOST").

You are supposed to use the changing AFKAO changing tactical callsigns to the max extent possible, especially away from base.

AFI 33-217 is your starting point. http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA403713

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[HuggyU2]

We have squadron callsigns too, not specific for each pilot. Numbers are just associated with the flying periods.

In my wing, leadership gets their own callsign. The rest are assigned based on the type of mission. By hearing the number, you know a little about what they are doing.

[Varmint]

You have to be 4-6 letters, and 1-2 numbers in the CS. For example, you may think you hear "moccasin 01" but what you actually hear is MOCSN 01.

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Pile on. We are currently losing some of our callsigns because they do not meet one of three restrictions set by ACC:

1. 4-6 letters

2. Must be found in the dictionary

3. Must be easy to pronounce

I don't know if this is new or if we just haven't been adhering to the regs, but it kind of sucks because we are losing some of our best cllsigns like "Warman."

Varmint

[Toro]

Thanks for the replys, I was more interested in the number than the actual call signs, such as does a given person get assigned a specific number Speedo 1 or whatever, and if there were any stories associated with those numbers

Rotorhead's explanation pretty much summed up the requirements. As for who gets what call signs and numbers, it's up to the individual units. As mentioned, the call signs are requested and assigned (or denied) from the FAA. From that point, they 'belong' to that wing - specifically the wing airspace office. Wing airspace is responsible for assigning them to squadrons, butwe've had plenty of guys make deals to swap call signs. Recently, there was a barter which involved a great deal of alcohol presented at a roll call from one of the ops squadron to us because one of the call signs we had was the same as his personal call sign.

Within the squadron, I've seen the call signs assigned to a flight (UPT) which was divided by numbers (Snake 11, 12, etc)., but everywhere else I've seen assigns individual call signs to the pilot. The one advantage to giving call signs to a flight was that all the UPT check pilots used the same call signs, so the local ATC guys knew to give them priority on their requests. If the individual call signs run short, guys have to share and separate it with numbers.

The numbers don't matter for the most part - normally we just give the first guy '11', the second, '21', etc. However, we requested the 'Lancer' (squadron 'mascot') call sign a long time back and were denied because there was another unit within a specified range that uses the same call sign. The solution was to limit the associated numbers; they can use everything 51 and below, we can use 61 and above.

I don't know if this is new or if we just haven't been adhering to the regs, but it kind of sucks because we are losing some of our best cllsigns like "Warman."

Wonder if SJ will lose it as well. That's the OG/CCs call sign (or maybe that's why you lost it).

[HuggyU2]

"I don't know, but I've heard" of some pilots actually making up a call sign for use on a cross country. Yes, I know it's shocking.

Additionally, I heard that it worked fine (everytime).

[Mambo]

"I don't know, but I've heard" of some pilots actually making up a call sign for use on a cross country. Yes, I know it's shocking.

Additionally, I heard that it worked fine (everytime).

Back in the late 80's we had a four ship of F-111A's coming back to Mt. Home from a TDY. When they checked in with us upon landing (they used to pass their squawks directly to the avionics truck) we noticed their callsign...POTATO. So check-in went "Potato check..." "One potato, two potato, three potato, four". We got a good laugh out of that one.

How are the overseas callsigns chosen or approved?

[stract]

There must not be conflicts with other units, and geographical boundaries may be set (like, "don't use GHOST outside 150 miles of base, etc., because a unit 300 miles away also uses GHOST").

Well, that one there isn't really followed in our community. With the exception of DM and KIKR, every rescue (read HH-60) unit I've flown with uses the same callsign. And I know I've only used the VCSL twice for cross countries in the 3 years I've been here. Oops. I know we've made up callsigns on the fly before (we were Ivan flight when we hurevac'd for Ivan, for example, and Hooah on the way home....flight lead was a Former Army Guy).

[Toro]

"I don't know, but I've heard" of some pilots actually making up a call sign for use on a cross country. Yes, I know it's shocking.

Additionally, I heard that it worked fine (everytime).

Heard of it, never done it. As long as Base Ops accepts it into the system (verified before you take off), you should be fine. I doubt they check it against any sort of master list.

How are the overseas callsigns chosen or approved?

When I was in England, it worked the same as here in the states. I believe we ran ours through London Military (England equivalent of FAA), which ensured they weren't in use by the RAF bases.

[Beaver]

Worked the same in Japan. You just have to consider some of the linguistic difficulties you might run into.

[EvilEagle]

When I was in England, it worked the same as here in the states. I believe we ran ours through London Military (England equivalent of FAA), which ensured they weren't in use by the RAF bases.

Yeah, I lost "Vader" when some Coltishaw guys decided they wanted it. London mil called the squadron and said that it was no longer ours. Awesome.... but I ended up with Hitman after that. Hey, it's better than some....

[outbreak]

Our squadron is all GATORs but the numbers are assigned to each pilot. We flew GATOR 80 one day and every controller we talked to got pissy about "GATOR Eighty." they wanted "GATOR EIGHT ZERO." One of our guys kept callin "GATORADER." But I know the brass here at RND has their own callsigns. AETC CC is SPUR 1 I think. Don't know any others.

Edited December 14, 2007 by outbreak

[Guest scott1234]

I was wondering if any one knew how, at all, one would go about changing the call sign for a particular unit at a flying squadron? My CFIC instructors want me to figure this out, in particular they want a new call sign for their CFIC sorties. Does anyone have any idea as to how to do this?

[HiFlyer]

I recall having to do the same thing eons ago when the wing at Laughlin changed from the 3646th PTW to the 47th FTW. The master list used to be controlled by the comm people, I beleive, at Scott AFB back when there was an AFCC. I suspect the function still exists but has changed hands a dozen times over the years. I'd start with your local Comm people; find some senior NCOs who know about such things and ask them. They might be able to start you in the right direction. There was a list of every approved call sign that existed and which were still available. We got stuck with "Aloha"...not really distinct or easy to say compared to "Rake", which the T-38 squadron had before. I don't think it lasted too long!

[EvilEagle]

Stan/Eval is the appropriate channel if you want to do it officially. Most wings in ACC are not approved for about 1/2 the callsigns they fly with... Oh well.

[stract]

also, Callsigns have to be approved by the FSDO. They want to make sure there is geographic separation between the same callsign/number, etc.

[brabus]

We just fly with whatever the hell we want (boss approved of course). Sure you can be official, but as long as you don't use something outrageous, the chances of someone saying something are nil. When baseops gets the flight plan, they're just going to put whatever they see in the system.

[Toro]

Stan/Eval is the appropriate channel if you want to do it officially. Most wings in ACC are not approved for about 1/2 the callsigns they fly with... Oh well.

We had a revision of a bunch of ours at Seymour around 2006 and the OSS handled it.