TAMI 21 and AFSOC

[Guest maxwell]

Anyone heard more than what was printed in AF times or online about TAMI 21? Im a B-52 copilot elgible to fill one of the 200 some slots. From what Ive heard it is going to be mostly UAVs with very few actual AFSOC flying jobs. What kind of deployment or ops tempo is going on in the MC-130 or the U28? Trying to decide if it is worth volunteering or not for a flying job, or if you know about UAV positives/negatives that would be good too. Thanks.

Maxwell

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Anyone heard more than what was printed in AF times or online about TAMI 21? Im a B-52 copilot elgible to fill one of the 200 some slots. From what Ive heard it is going to be mostly UAVs with very few actual AFSOC flying jobs. What kind of deployment or ops tempo is going on in the MC-130 or the U28? Trying to decide if it is worth volunteering or not for a flying job, or if you know about UAV positives/negatives that would be good too. Thanks.

Maxwell

U-28 would be cool.

So would a chopper.

[F-15E WSO]

Anyone heard more than what was printed in AF times or online about TAMI 21? Im a B-52 copilot elgible to fill one of the 200 some slots. From what Ive heard it is going to be mostly UAVs with very few actual AFSOC flying jobs. What kind of deployment or ops tempo is going on in the MC-130 or the U28? Trying to decide if it is worth volunteering or not for a flying job, or if you know about UAV positives/negatives that would be good too. Thanks.

Maxwell

Link to discussion from last week.

[Ill Destructor]

UAV positives/negatives

Positive: living in/near Vegas

Negative: not actually flying

[dmeg130]

AFSOC flying jobs are U-28s ONLY -- there may be a chance to crosstrain into other aircraft later. At least the frequent deployments will minimize your time in Clovis.

[Wing Sweep]

Max,

I've been told by two friends in the 319th they're staying at HRT. Gone 40-50% of the time.

Buffs can carry extra crewmembers to get requirements checked off. Other fighters/bombers on the hit list can't. Therefore, Buffs won't get hit as bad as other communities (or so we were told by our Wing King).

On a separate but related story, we were told in our FTU class today to fill out our T-ODPs. We were initially told (Day 1 at FTU 3 months ago) to worry about it when we got to our operational squadrons, but they've changed their minds as of today (things that may you go hmmm...). The word today was, "Unless you want to be at the top of the UAV hit list, we need your T-ODPs, stat!"

[LJ Driver]

Max,

I've been told by two friends in the 319th they're staying at HRT. Gone 40-50% of the time.

That's funny. The 319th kids really think they will be a squadron of 20+ airplanes and not be sent to Clovis. Trust me, AT LEAST half of that squadron is going to Cannon. Honestly when you think about, they are the ones that make the most sense to send anyway. Small footprint, little infrastructure requirement, still building the squadron. A perfect choice!

[Guest tapeworm]

I read through all pages of both topics on this subject. I probably won't be graduating viper RTU until July - Aug 08 - if all goes well. I don't know much about assignment cycles or timing. From what I gather, TAMI 21 currently looks to be taking guys between now and June 08. Are guys at my stage of the game and later any safer than guys currently in RTU?

[Vetter]

Man, I wish I could volunteer and get my foot in at AFSOC. All my closest buds are in AFSOC and they are loving it. Sure, they are deployed a lot, but they say the gratification is worth it. Nope, I am stuck as an "ACC asset"; hence I'll probably go from RTU straight to a Pred.

Maybe I'll Palace Chase to the Army Guard and fly Apaches.

[Wing Sweep]

That's funny. The 319th kids really think they will be a squadron of 20+ airplanes and not be sent to Clovis. Trust me, AT LEAST half of that squadron is going to Cannon. Honestly when you think about, they are the ones that make the most sense to send anyway. Small footprint, little infrastructure requirement, still building the squadron. A perfect choice!

I guess time will tell.

[Guest Gonads]

Here is what we were told by our commander in Minot. All Co's who have more than 1 year on station and less than 450 hours are in the TAMI pool. For us (bomber dudes) they are going to take 40, which works out to around 15 dudes from each squadron since they aren't taking any from the B-2's. If you go to UAV's, you won't have any chance to return to flying. If you go AFSOC, you won't be returning to ACC. BUFFs won't be tasked until the Feb 08 move cycle. They are also expecting the same thing to happen to EW's and Navs with the same numbers.

[pawnman]

Man, I wish I could volunteer and get my foot in at AFSOC. All my closest buds are in AFSOC and they are loving it. Sure, they are deployed a lot, but they say the gratification is worth it. Nope, I am stuck as an "ACC asset"; hence I'll probably go from RTU straight to a Pred.

Maybe I'll Palace Chase to the Army Guard and fly Apaches.

Lord forbid the AF take volunteers instead of non-voling other people.

Hopefully this will all be done by the time I get out of the RTU.

[Guest Justshootme]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Listen guys, don't get too worked up about all this.

They are saying there will be no chance to return to flying. That's bullshit. Here's why...

1. You're pilots.

2. The USAF never sticks to these kinds of policies.

3. There will come a time when the USAF will need pilots so badly that they won't be able to fulfill their requirements even if they bring back every person effected by this policy.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen crap like this and everyone freaked out. I'll give a couple examples. Some of these examples have happened more than once. I'm sure the other crusty old farts can give you even more...

- No more return to fly boards, ever.

- Feet on the ramp

- Career ATC track

- No more than 3 field grade officers in any flying squadron

- No crossflow from heavies to fighters

- Career ALO track

- No more A-10 weapons school

- All combat rescue helo units are closing, forever.

- Flying and leadership career tracks

- All helos are going to AFSOC

- No more Fixed Wing Qual

- No more pilot bonus

- No more FAIPs

- Everyone is eligible to move after 18 mo on station

- ANG is going to airlift and tanker only

- The A-10 is going to be retired

- Graduate degree is required to make Major

- The Composite Wing

- One fighter per UPT class, max.

- All PCS moves except those with a DEROS will be extended at least 12 months, indefinitely.

- All promotion boards for field grade officers will be slipped two years to the right, forever.

- The A-10 is going to the Army

- Blah, blah, blah...you get the picture

How do you keep from "getting screwed"?

Don't panic. Maintain poise under pressure. Stay focused on the important things that effect the mission you are currently tasked with. Perform, don't whine. Do the right thing, even if it is more difficult. Let your boss know what you would like to do, ask what level of performance it takes to get there and then exceed it.

Do those things and you'll be just fine. People notice.

Technique only.

[HerkDerka]

The man's got a point.

HD

[Herk Driver]

Corporate knowledge. What a wonderful thing. And to think that I've lived through most of those.

[Guest dtfl]

I guess time will tell.

Agreed. The guys in the 319th I know say they are not going. They have someone above the SOW that owns them..so...we shall see.

As for another post 40-50% of the time is conservative. My buds are gone every 75 days for 60 or 90.

Predators - yes not actually flying sux...but I have a very close friend who is at that unit. They...and "he" just abosorbed the ACC attack unit. Lots of lead being thrown...he said its cool to drive to work...blow crap up...then drive home to be with the wife.

If you are into that kinda thing.

Clovis for them? That's the plan........of course Clovis has to remedy the lack of Restricted airspace for them to fly out of the actual airbase...and remedy the environmental assessment issues with regards to live firing on the range...etc...etc...oh well MCs can still go there.

Edited June 8, 2007 by dtfl

[matmacwc]

Rainman is right, Rainman is a WIC grad, Rainmain is guard, he's not worried about what the rest of us is worried about...........sorry dude....

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Rainman is right, Rainman is a WIC grad, Rainmain is guard, he's not worried about what the rest of us is worried about...........sorry dude....

I do care about you guys getting jerked around. I also know it is not worth getting too worked up about things you have no control over, especially since it is bound to change.

FWIW, I only did my last couple years in the Guard, and I was full time AGR. I was also in MAC, TAC, USAFE, ACC and PACAF and lived on a SAC base. I was lucky enough to watch the standard knee jerk reactions for 21 years in many different commands. I worried about them for about the first 10 years and then some really smart people told me the same things I said to you guys.

[Boxhead]

Clovis for them? That's the plan........

Just to clarify...Clovis is just a future site for the 3 SOS...all other AD Predator units are staying at Creech. I think the Clovis thing is a few years away anyway. Then again, I am not to upset, I don't really want my daughter growing up in Vegas thinking this is normal life!

[Fozzy Bear]

Lord forbid the AF take volunteers instead of non-voling other people.

Hopefully this will all be done by the time I get out of the RTU.

That's what I don't get. I know a lot of dudes who don't get their rocks off "turning left like a retarded kid" all the time, and are stuff doing exactly that in a big jet. My experience with AFSOC is that the BS is minimal, there's little red tape, the mission comes first, then the people, and no one gives a shit about anything else. If they want slots filled, they should just ask for volunteers across the board - they'd fill up quickly.

[Guest Cam]

I was told at a staff meeting last week that we (B-52's) would be giving up 40 copilots between the 20th, 23rd, and 96th during the Fall VML alone to fill slots in UAVs, AFSOC, ALO, and AETC.

I joined BUFF's in early 2000 and have been flying BUFF's ever since. There were 12 copilots in my initial qual class, and only myself and one other guy managed to avoid getting an assignment to go somewhere else. 3 went to white jets, 1 to test pilot school, 1 to B-2s, and the rest to ALO and UAV.

To the original poster- your odds of not getting an assigment to something other than BUFF's are even slimmer than mine were. If you want to stay in a cockpit, make sure everyone in your chain of command knows what you want. Tell them verbally, and fill out your T-ODP on AFPC's website. If you want to stay in BUFF's, make sure they know how much you enjoy flying the BUFF, and let them know what your preferences are in order... e.g., "I would really like to stay in BUFF's, but if I do have to go somewhere else, I would like to apply to B-2's, volunteer for a UPT instructor assignment, or fly U-28's, in that order."

There have been quite a few instances in my career where the only reason someone else got the assignment is because I let my chain of command know what my desires were, and the other guy didn't.

There are things you can do to help yourself out, but in the end its luck and timing. With that in mind, I recommend that you prepare yourself mentally and emotionally for any of the possible assignments that are coming down for B-52 copilots. Any one of those assignments can be great- approach it with that attitude and you'll be much happier in the end.

BTW, if you're a new copilot, I've probably instructed you recently. If I can answer any questions, you should know where to find me. My screen name is also my first name. I'll be more than happy to talk/mentor on this kind of stuff. :)

[Guest Rainman A-10]

That's some damn good advice.

[brabus]

Just wondering, what's a T-ODP?

[Guest Rockhound]

Just wondering, what's a T-ODP?

T-Officer Professional Development Plan (T-ODP) - T-ODPs have been in use for over two years now, yet the DT continues to see outdated/limited-scope/blank T-ODPs. The DT provided “Needs of the Air Force” vectors when no individual long-term career plans/rater feedback were provided. Officers need to express their career plans if they want the DT to expend effort on their behalf. Inputs should focus on long-term goals--not the next assignment--and raters should provide clear feedback concerning officers’ potential—good, bad or ugly. Don’t leave the DT guessing “what you meant to say.”